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the official rotk disussion thread (spoilers are present WITHOUT tags)

Old 12-17-03, 01:20 AM
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the official rotk disussion thread (spoilers are present WITHOUT tags)

Admin note: It's going to be very difficult to actually discuss the movie using spoiler tags on every spoiler and not have every post filled to the brim with spoiler tags, which will make reading this thread extremely annoying. Don't use tags. I doubt that people who haven't seen the movie can really discuss it that well, anyways. - Static
this movie without a shoubt of a doubt, is the best ending to a trilogy of all time.
now to the good stuff.
the cgi and the interactions with all of the characters was really well done. this was especially apparent when
Spoiler:
lagolas killed one of the monsters by cutting off its head

in regards to the ending
Spoiler:
aragon becomes the king and ends up kissing arwin, and even sam marries Mary (i think that was her name) and has kids with her. she was mentioned at the begining of hte first movie
Old 12-17-03, 01:51 AM
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Spoiler:
Legolas did not cut the Oliphant's head off, and Sam's wife name is Rosy.


What movie were you watching?
Old 12-17-03, 02:58 AM
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Spoiler:
people cheered when eowen cut off the head of the nazgul (sp?). Oh and legolas kicks major ass, taking down that oliphant was freaking sweet
Old 12-17-03, 05:06 AM
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Indeed. There were alot of strong singled out moments in the wars. WARNING, major kick ass moments spoiled.

Spoiler:
Defending the King of Rohan, choping off the head of the witch king's dragon. Killing the Witch King himself. Legolas taking down an Oliphant. Aragorn arriving with the army of the dead. Rohan riding everything down like grass. Rohan taking down the first Oliphant.

Last edited by Teremei; 12-17-03 at 05:09 AM.
Old 12-17-03, 06:01 AM
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Very very good movie. Some quick thoughts before I go to bed:

Spoiler:

- Didn't need the Smeagol/Deagol opening. Serkis is waaay too tall to pull off Hobbit.

- Blah to all the Arwen scenes. I still don't get what Jackson's obsession is with her. Then tying her fate with the ring?? WTF is up with that? And Liv Tyler just really can't pull off elf for me. I would've liked more Eowyn instead.

- Shelob is probably The Best Special Effect I've ever seen. THAT was awesome.

- Ending draaaagged. The pull away from Minas Tirith would've been enough for moi. The movie is titled "Return of the King" after all. And yes, I've read the books.


And lastly, I'm naming my first daughter Eowyn. That's all I gotta say about that. More tomorrow. Good night folks.
Old 12-17-03, 06:10 AM
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Great movie.

I thought the ending tied things up pretty well. I do not think it could have ended earlier without people wanting to know what happened to all the characters.


need to sleep now
Old 12-17-03, 06:24 AM
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Just seen a midnight showing... wow.

-k
###
Old 12-17-03, 06:59 AM
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I was disappointed - I don't think there will ever be a great conclusion to a trilogy in my lifetime. I would give it *** out of *****. I thought this would be the easiest book to adapt to screen and it was the most butchered - I can live w/ certain changes to the books, that's fine, but some of the changes are ridiculous. (I'll delve more into my likes and dislikes later). IMO, this movie is almost insulting to the masterpieces that are the first two films. It does not deserve a Best Picture award.

Don't get me wrong, I thought it was good, but it was not the great masterpiece I had built up in my mind and was expecting after the first two installments (both of which I absolutely love).

Last edited by B.A.; 12-17-03 at 07:02 AM.
Old 12-17-03, 07:14 AM
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you could have not loved the two towers so much when they changed a shitload in it

But I think what you mean is that they just tried to put too much stuff in and scenes cut bad sometimes, and I agree there
Extended version would probably fix this so no problem
Old 12-17-03, 07:26 AM
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wow. loved it. loved it loved it.
Old 12-17-03, 07:39 AM
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Originally posted by condorito
you could have not loved the two towers so much when they changed a shitload in it

But I think what you mean is that they just tried to put too much stuff in and scenes cut bad sometimes, and I agree there
Extended version would probably fix this so no problem
But the stuff they changed in TTT actually worked more than some of the stuff they changed in this one.

I'm holding out hope for the EE - hopefully I will enjoy it more than I did last night. I just think he cut too much stuff/left it out entirely and spent way too much time on slow-mo shots that re-inforce the tension, etc. - have been repeatedly shown throughout the trilogy (particularly between Frodo and Sam - we get the point already).
Old 12-17-03, 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by Jackskeleton
wow. loved it. loved it loved it.
Ditto. Going to see this again in a couple of hours. Thanks Peter
Jackson.



Jason
Old 12-17-03, 09:00 AM
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Things I really enjoyed:

The Battle of Pelennor Fields
- The Charge of the Rohirrim
- Eowyn's face-off w/ the Witch King
- Grond (sp?)
- Rohirrim taking on the Olyphaunts/Haradrim
- I didn't even mind the Army of the Dead at the battle

Minas Morgul (the signal from the tower and the Witch King and his army's departure from the dead city.)

the Stairs of Cirith Ungol/the Tower of Cirith Ungol and Frodo and Sam's departure in orc gear.

Shelob was pretty cool.

The Eagles

Rohirrim's muster at Dunharrow

Arwen's arrival after Aragorn's crowning ceremony.

Grey Havens

Things I did not care for:

Omissions of the Rangers and Sons of Elrond (Elrohir and Elladan ?) arrival after the departure of Isengard - that would have taken a few minutes to establish (they could have brought Aragorn Anduril, though I don't have a problem w/ Elrond doing it) and they would have been great during the Battle of Pelennor Fields.

Omission of Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth - would have been good at Pelennor, too, and he wouldn't have take more than a few minutes to establish as a character

Omission of the Houses of the Healing - we knew this was coming, but it would have been nice to see them introduce Eowyn and Faramir, especially since they spent the time to establish their characters.

Omission of Saruman at Isengard in the beginning.

Frodo telling Sam to go home after climbing the Stair was just stupid, imo, and it lessened my enjoyment of the Shelob's Lair sequence.

I think w/ tighter editiing and elimination of some sequences (particularly some of the crap dealing w/ Frodo and Sam and Legolas's mounting of the Olyphaunt) they could have easily added these noted omissions.

The sound was great and some of the visual/special effects were great, too, but I also thought this movie had some of the worse visual/special effects of the trilogy. Quite a few of them looked sloppy and had bad blue-screen work.
Old 12-17-03, 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by Ted The Bug
Spoiler:
Legolas did not cut the Oliphant's head off, and Sam's wife name is Rosy.


What movie were you watching?
sorry, i'm not as fimiliar with all of the characters since i didn't read the books.
Old 12-17-03, 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by B.A.hist
Things I really enjoyed:

The Battle of Pelennor Fields
- The Charge of the Rohirrim
- Eowyn's face-off w/ the Witch King
- Grond (sp?)
- Rohirrim taking on the Olyphaunts/Haradrim
- I didn't even mind the Army of the Dead at the battle

Minas Morgul (the signal from the tower and the Witch King and his army's departure from the dead city.)

the Stairs of Cirith Ungol/the Tower of Cirith Ungol and Frodo and Sam's departure in orc gear.

Shelob was pretty cool.

The Eagles

Rohirrim's muster at Dunharrow

Arwen's arrival after Aragorn's crowning ceremony.

Grey Havens

Things I did not care for:

Omissions of the Rangers and Sons of Elrond (Elrohir and Elladan ?) arrival after the departure of Isengard - that would have taken a few minutes to establish (they could have brought Aragorn Anduril, though I don't have a problem w/ Elrond doing it) and they would have been great during the Battle of Pelennor Fields.

Omission of Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth - would have been good at Pelennor, too, and he wouldn't have take more than a few minutes to establish as a character

Omission of the Houses of the Healing - we knew this was coming, but it would have been nice to see them introduce Eowyn and Faramir, especially since they spent the time to establish their characters.

Omission of Saruman at Isengard in the beginning.

Frodo telling Sam to go home after climbing the Stair was just stupid, imo, and it lessened my enjoyment of the Shelob's Lair sequence.

I think w/ tighter editiing and elimination of some sequences (particularly some of the crap dealing w/ Frodo and Sam and Legolas's mounting of the Olyphaunt) they could have easily added these noted omissions.

The sound was great and some of the visual/special effects were great, too, but I also thought this movie had some of the worse visual/special effects of the trilogy. Quite a few of them looked sloppy and had bad blue-screen work.
I've read somewhere that the some scenes for ROTK were the very first to be shot when they did the filming. Maybe that is the reason.
Old 12-17-03, 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by B.A.hist
I also thought this movie had some of the worse visual/special effects of the trilogy. Quite a few of them looked sloppy and had bad blue-screen work.
Yeah the one thing that really stood out for me was at the end when they all bow down to the four hobbits. Wow that was some horrible blue-screen or however they did it.. the hobbits looked TOTALLY out of place compared to those around them..did not match AT ALL. I'm surprised they didn't try to re-shoot that at some point. There were many other similar scenes (where the hobbits are standing directly in front of regular men and are 'shrunk down') that were done MUCH better.

Other than that, I freakin' loved this movie
Old 12-17-03, 12:30 PM
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Ok, I'm half awake but I'll try to make this comprehensible.

As before, I don't see the point of the prologue. It just felt out of place with the rest of the movie. It just seemed like an excuse to put Serkis on screen as gratitude for his work doing Gollum.

While I didn't really miss Saruman, his "resolution" seemed too tacked on. Just a few lines from Treebeard and that's it. But the Merry/Pippin welcome at Isengard was great though.

One of my favorite scenes was the lighting of the beacons. Just great mix of cinematography and music there. Perfect.

Pellenor Fields was great. That Oliphaunt attack and Rohirrim charge was breathtaking. And my Eowyn taking down one all by herself? Take that Arwen! All you do is make cutey faces. That's it.

I didn't like ANY scene with Arwen at all. I've said it since Fellowship and I'll say it again. I just don't see her as an elf. She'll always be Corey from Empire Records and the slutty girl with Alicia Silverstone from the "Crazy" video by Aerosmith. And then they go and tie her "fate" with the destruction of the ring? Very bad idea. Part of me wished the ring hadn't been destroyed when they did that.

Going back to the Fields, the Aragorn to the rescue bit was cool if nothing else. That army of the dead sure can kick butt. Although the f/x kinda looked cheesy in the wide shot of Minas Tirith when they were going thru the city. Leggy vs. Oliphaunt...you gotta love that elf.

Eowyn vs. WiKi. My Eowyn taking down WiKi...Hallmark Moment.

After the Fields, my interest kinda waned as the movie wound down. Never really cared for Sam and Frodo's adventure and aside from fighting Shelob, all Sam does is cry like a stupid baby anyway so eh.

Spotlight of Sauron -- cheesy as hell. What is this, prison?

Black Gate battle, would've worked better with the Mouth of Sauron IMO.

The End of All Things was alright, but the Gollum dancing with invisible Frodo didn't look well. I guess some things really look better on the page than on screen. I was waiting for the low frequency "oomph" that they did--when Original Sauron exploded in the prologue to Fellowship--after The Spotlight exploded with the donut shockwave but alas, it was nowhere to be heard.

Then we come to The EndS. The Reunion of the Fellowship in slo-mo. Cheese alert, although I understand it's just the coming full circle of the people who started the quest. Coronation was alright, no surprises really there but of course that horse-faced Arwen has to make a dramatic entrance. Bah. My Eowyn looked enchanting though. Lucky Faramir.

Back to the Shire. Nothing there. Grey Havens, eh. Just more waterwork-inducers. Then Fat Hobbit goes home. More eh.

Good movie. It's up there with the rest of 'em. I'm sure to buy both versions on DVD. Hopefully more Eowyn on the EE.

EDIT to add:
I was surprised that 2 of my favorite shots from the trailer weren't in the movie:

Nazgul on Fell Beast swooping down to confront Gandalf on horse

Merry telling Pip that they WILL see the Shire again.

Did anybody else see the Christian Rivers(Pre-Vis supervisor) cameo? I won't spoil it yet for those who're gonna see it again.

Last edited by Kal-El; 12-17-03 at 12:34 PM.
Old 12-17-03, 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by Kal Jedi
Black Gate battle, would've worked better with the Mouth of Sauron IMO.

I forgot about that - and I totally agree.
Old 12-17-03, 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by Kal Jedi
Did anybody else see the Christian Rivers(Pre-Vis supervisor) cameo? I won't spoil it yet for those who're gonna see it again.
Yep, and of course we got to see Peter's kids in Minas Tirith, too.
Old 12-17-03, 02:51 PM
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Great movie - absolutely great.

I would have liked to have seen Eowyn die, but that's it. (I even thought there was a part from the trailer of Eomer holding her and crying -- oh well).

Loved everything else about it --- everything. I'm an avid fan of the book, and the alterations/additions/omissions did not bother me or take me out of the moment one bit.

I can see how non-book readers may think it's long, but that's their problem.
Old 12-17-03, 02:56 PM
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Absolutely fantastic.

Straight to the top of my all time favorite movie list, probably to be replaced in 11 months by the EE.
Old 12-17-03, 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by B.A.hist
I was disappointed - I don't think there will ever be a great conclusion to a trilogy in my lifetime.
BAhist id be interested in seeing what you thought of the film after a second viewing, if you do decide to see it a second time.
Old 12-17-03, 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by Toad
Great movie - absolutely great.

I would have liked to have seen Eowyn die, but that's it. (I even thought there was a part from the trailer of Eomer holding her and crying -- oh well).

I didn't think she died in the book, and I think Eomer is holding Theoden in the shot in the trailer.
Old 12-17-03, 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by B.A.hist
I can live w/ certain changes to the books, that's fine, but some of the changes are ridiculous. (I'll delve more into my likes and dislikes later). IMO, this movie is almost insulting to the masterpieces that are the first two films. It does not deserve a Best Picture award.
What were the outrageous changes you speak of?

I read your other post and caught mostly quibbles with minor character omissions. The movie was already dealing with so many characters, introducing Elrond's sons at this point would have been a bad idea (they mention this on the TT:EE director commentary track). Just think, Boromir is the only protagonist who died throughout the trilogy. They just kept introducing more and more.

I would have liked to have seen Saruman and the Houses of Healing too but come on, the movie was already running very long. They'll be on the DVD. If you weren't mad about the omission of the Scouring of the Shire... why so mad about these scenes?

Frodo telling Sam to go home was a bit cheesy, but its not like Sam actually went home. It was just a plot device to show just how much the ring and Gollum were effecting Frodo's mind. And also to have Frodo confronting Shelob alone.

Overall, I loved it. Great movie.
Old 12-17-03, 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by Kal Jedi


I didn't like ANY scene with Arwen at all. I've said it since Fellowship and I'll say it again. I just don't see her as an elf. She'll always be Corey from Empire Records and the slutty girl with Alicia Silverstone from the "Crazy" video by Aerosmith. ...

Agreed.

Claudia Black (Farscape) would've made a far better Arwen.

(she was asked, but couldn't do it because of season 4 of Farscape.)

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