I was born in 1978. So for as long as I can remember Star Wars was a phenomena of the past. I don't remember the hysteria and excitement that surrounded the first trilogy, but it seems it was pretty mellow compared to what goes on today.

What I DO REMEMBER is the dead period from aproximately 1985-1995 (my elimentary years) when nothing was more UN-cool than Star Wars. Kids my age were into GI Joe and Transformers, older kids were on to something else. Let's face it Star Wars was pretty much dead. I had my VHS tapes, and I loved them, but mostly Star Wars was off the radar.

I suppose it was the Special Edditions in 1997 and then the new movie in 1999, but WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED? Apparently the fans weren't dead, they were dormant, and they emmerged more powerfully nerdy then they had ever been before. Costumes, conventions, and all the sci-fi accoutrements typically ascribed to Star Trek fans, sprung up with a Star Wars version.

Anyway my question for debate is: When did Star Wars fans start acting so Trek like? Where did these uber-geeks come from? The one thing that has turned me off more than anything about the new trilogy is that it has propagated a legion of fans (evidently fair weather) who dissapeared completely (even at a time when Trek was going strong) and who came back with such a geek vengence.

And worse, they defend the new movies with a rage and fury that DVDTalkers defend OAR...

Kidding. I had two roommates in college who were Star Wars geeks even during the dead period. They watched one of the OT movies at least once every week or two and right before the Phantom Wreck came out, they watched the whole OT every night for a week straight (during finals, of course).

As far as the general fans, I'm pretty sure the fans always existed, I'm guessing the fans were smaller and (at the time) did not have the diverse universe that Star Trek fans had. Most of the Star Wars books and other lore before and after the movies came out during the 1990's, I believe, so I'm not too surprised Star Wars fans are becoming more prevalent and annoying.

You raise a very good point I had not considered. THE BOOKS! I think they had a lot to do with cultivating the rabid fan. I have never read one, but I listened to a book on tape of one of them and thought it was horible.

I think the big jump for Star Wars from being cool to nerd-fest came with the build up to Episode 1. Those nerds who camped out for months to be the first in line is the #1 guilty party in my opinion. What a bunch of losers! Wish I had so much free time on my hands. I didn't wait in line at all and I still got into the midnight 1st showing. Also, there was so much promotion around Ep1 that everyone got sick of not being able to turn on the TV without "Star Wars Updates", read a paper, or go to a store without seeing SW products/banners. I like SW and I got sick of it.

A moment I remember of how Star Wars fans were now geeks and nerds is a skit on Jay Leno about the lines. There were SW fans in lines for a theater and then a car pulls up with ST fans dressed as Klingons. They made fun of the SW fans and said "Yoda bites ass". They peeled out and a close up of a nerd showed him crying. That was the moment I realized being a SW fan was no longer cool.

At least SW fans didn't get some name hooked to them like ST fans got 'Trekkie'.

I still like Star Wars I know it will get laughs if I tell people I do.

I agree that the "turning point" was during the whole build up for Episode 1. Everyone and their mother bought I think tons of tickets in advance for future viewings aside from the midnight one only to be treated with a big DUD.

I was still in the Philippines during the so called "dead period" and I never really got out of the whole Star Wars universe personally. Not that there's much of it back there anyway. I read the Zahn trilogy which I thought continued the storyline after Jedi quite nicely but after that, I stopped.

I still like Star Wars, but I've grown to like other stuff as well along the way.

I think the genre got jumpstarted in the 1990's with the beginning of the Expanded Universe novels. The first trilogy by Timothy Zahn is very good, and captured the feel of the Star Wars universe so well it generated a great deal of enthusiasm. Steve Perry's "Shadows of the Empire", dealing with the time between Empire and Jedi, was a huge success, spawning its own soundtrack and action figures.

As with all book series, there have been good ones and bad ones, but at least they are not churning them out quite as fast as the Star Trek novels.

The promotion for Episode I was overkill. There was simply no way the movie could have lived up to the hype, even if it had been as good as ESB.

I guess the explosion of collecting and the rabid fanbase can be attributed mainly to the Internet. SW fans are well connected and with resources like ebay have made and spent fortunes on various SW items in the last few years.

As for the hardcore people camping out, dressing up, etc., they are no different than sports fans who camp out for playoff tickets, spend the entire day before a game drinking and cooking out in the parking lot, and paint their bodies in the team colors so they can take their shirts off and get on TV in sub-zero weather. If you don't like it, you don't have to participate. I consider myself a big fan, and the last time I dressed up like a Star Wars character (or anything else) was in grade school. The people I see doing this look like they're having a good time, so why torture them?

I was one of them, heh. I also waited 672 hours for Ep2. Maybe you did get in to the first showing in your town, but was it at the Chinese Theater? And I guarantee you didn't have anywhere near as much fun during those previous 6 weeks. Oh and what's my signature say....?

This is true.
Like Trek fans, the Star Wars diehards defend the movies that arent good anymore.
I was about 17 when the first movies came out. I remember the hype and it was amazing. The time magazine covers and the newspaper articles that came out regarding it.
It was am amazing time because I dont think there were too many other movies that had the hype that The Star Wars movies did, except maybe, Jaws before it.
After the first one came out, the speculation started as to what twists we would see next and what would happen to the characters. This was before the Internet so it was just something that was amazing thing to be a part of.
Now the movies come out and yeah, you get the people debating on the internet about it but in my opinion theres nothing exciting about the new trilogy. Its hollow at the core and from what we have seen with the last two, the new Star Wars material is poorly written and badly executed.
Theres nothing worth rooting for and I think this has everything to do with the sub par scripts.
The original trilogy had other people than Lucas writing and you can clearly tell the difference.

Man, I wish I could see that. Any chance its for DL?

The best Star Wars goof was on Conan with Triumph the insult comic dog, pure genius

Anyway, i feel getting excited enough about a movie to camp out and dress up is pretty dumb. But hey, if you're having fun, all the more power to you.

Tor, I think we've had this conversation before, but I've also never understood this fixation with the Chinese Theater. Sure it's a Hollywood landmark, but there are MUCH better places to see a movie in LA. The Chinese is poorly run and I don't think they give a very good presentation. The Arclight, The Fox, The General Cinema in Westwood, The El Capitan, and the two THX screens at the Beverly Center are all better.

But back on topic, I think the real issue of my first post (and it has been adressed here pretty well) is that, even when its followers were few in number, it was always cool to be a Star Wars fan. Something has happened recently and Star Wars fans are just as nerdy as Trek fans, both in behavior and in perception by non fans. I too am embarassed to call myself a Star Wars fan. Five years ago this wasn't the case.

The reverse of that is even more true.

Ah, the old Star Wars is irrelevant thread, and Star Wars is no longer cool, or worth talking about. If everything you guys say is true, then why do you all keep talking about it? I bet there's more posts on this board having to do with Star Wars than there is on any subject. If you feel this way, then let it go. Leave Star Wars behind forever.

Fans have always been like this. LOTR fans, Star Trek fans, and any fans of a franchise that has achieved some success and a fanbase. Only with the internet have fans become more pathetic. Somehow the internet does that to people. Just look at all the message boards and the pathetic arguments that exist.

Hell, I love Star Wars and I make no apologies for it, nor do I give a damn whether it's cool or not. I don't dress up. Never have and never will. Just not my thing. I don't even buy the toys. I just love the movies. Well, all but TPM. I liked it, but didn't love it.

I was also born in '78 and as a kid I a had a number of the action figures and whatnot. I do remember the late 80s were filled with transformers, GI Joe He-man, baseball cards but IMO not star wars for a number of reasons. There was no cartoon everyday that kids could watch, not everyone had a vcr they could watch the movies on and I'm not sure when the first Star Wars boxset came out for VHS (I believe it was black and had a release date and box office earnings on the inside, anyone?). I remember liking star wars as a kid (I used to watch ESB and ROTJ all the time when I did get the videos) but it wasn't marketed all that much till the special editions and Episode 1 was announced.

Star Wars fans have always been nerdy. Trek fans are nerdy. All fanboys are nerdy. All fans who take something to the nth degree are nerdy.

Then you're not a Star Wars fan. Being a fan is not caring what other people think.

It's all over come 2005. The final Star Wars movie ever will be released and it will all end shortly thereafter.

I guess my point really is that prior to 1997 (I guess) there weren't any SW fans taking it to the nth degree. It was a nice low key thing. Sort of the anti-Trek. Now it's the same as Trek.

BTW, I mean no offense to Trek fans, I'm just using it as a benchmark for fan participation and attachment

Well, they probably were. They just weren't as publicized as they are now. The films originally didn't have the ridiculous hype and news coverage they do now. The internet wasn't a factor back then. 95% of the stuff discussed on the internet is not even acknowledged by the majority of fans. If you're only talking about the geeks, then okay. But if you include all Star Wars fans, both casual and hardcore, then the internet Star Wars geeks probably make up less than one percent of all Star Wars fans. The people who camped out probably make up less than one tenth of one percent of everyone that saw the film. The internet really is a small world. So when Star Wars fans are made fun of, only a very small percentage of the fans are being ridiculed, even though it paints everyone as a nerd.

Another thing you must remember is that the ones who grew up with Star Wars are now adults. So it's hard to judge what the fans are today and how they're perceived.

By the way, for the people that claim today's kids don't give a hoot about Star Wars, I must say that I've seen a a lot of kids playing with Star Wars toys, and even more at the movies with their parents. My niece who is 9 years old is damn near freakish over the new ones, and so are a couple of her friends. They watch those videos constantly. So some kids probably don't are for it, but there are a lot of other kids who do. Everyone has their own thing.

Was it "dead" though? During the 2nd half of that time period is when LucasArts started to crank out rather excellent (IMO) video games for PCs and eventually for other VG platforms. The video games WERE cool.

On the other hand, should we consider the difference between the original trilogy and the newer one? The 1st three were all rather mysterious and thrilling... adventures that focused on no more than 6 characters (Han, Chewie, Luke, Leia, R2D2, & C3PO). The adventures came left and right through various entangled/overlapping storylines. NOW the new movies have so many freakin' characters it is too overloaded to be exciting and "cool". They're so POLITICAL. The biggest adventurous scene in TPM was the overbloated "pod race" scene and the final Darth Maul battle. Quite frankly, NEITHER was as cool, exciting or entertaining at the "trash compactor" scene from the original film.

It seems that while everything is being explained by these final three movies, it is in fact "geeking out" the franchise. It is all politics, history and explanation. Nothing CAN be exciting or cool about it since we ultimately KNOW what has to happen and everyone is going to do in order for the original episode 4 to fit into the storyline.

Now stop rant will I....

Pants,

While I see your point, I think you exaggerate using words such as "hysteria" and "uber-geeks." There are some people out there that take their exuberance too far, IMO, but I think for a vast majority of movie-goers, Star wars is only a movie. I always liked the OT. I am only a couple of years older than you, born in 1976, and I remember seeing the films in the theater and having the toys in the early 80s. That said, I ascribe a certain amount of nostalgic and sentimental value to the series, but I did not have a great desire to see the new movies. I have seen both Ep1 and Ep2, but not until they were released on DVD. Bottom line, if you like it, so be it; if you love it, so be it; if you hate it, so be it. Who cares? They are only movies like any other, and I think most people feel this way. IMO, to find the conventions, costumes, and "uber-geeks," you have to go looking for them. I don't think the "hysteria" is as widespread and noticeable as you perceive it to be.

Just my .02

First came the Star Wars trilogy... and with it came the toys and the books and the comics and the conventions and the games. Then came the Special Edition Trilogy... and more toys, books, comics, games and conventions. Finally came the new trilogy and it's the same games and books and toys and comics and conventions.

Now there's the Lord of the Rings trilogy and a whole new set of conventions and games and books and whatnot (although the books were already there).

I use Uber-geek and hysteria just to have a little fun and keep it funny. I will have to argue however that out here in sunny Souther California (the land of weird) I see people in Jedi outfits more often than I'd like (once or twice a year) and it ain't on Halloween! I don't know where they are going exactly (maybe to a convention), but it is truely weird geek behavior. Maybe that doesn't happen down in Tennessee, I don't know.

Also during "the dead period" Clerks was created and released...featuring the beautiful Death Star worker dialog. There was a market for SW references, but only to the ones who "got it." (aka..cool? Hmmm...)

As far as why, maybe cuz the fanboys are no longer boys. Thev'e grown up, have better incomes, (hard ta buy EVERY figure on paper route money), and now look a bit more ridiculous in full Jedi regalia in a mall waiting for a movie.

Lastly, my kids LOVE the new movies. I say "let's watch a Star Wars movie!" and they say "Yeah...just one of the two new ones...the old ones aren't any good..." (Don't worry...I'll teach 'em...they DO choose widescreen on discs like Shrek!)

I haven't seen anybody in a jedi costume since 1983. But still, just because there are a few nuts out there is no reason to be embarassed to say you like the films.

Exactly! Same way with my niece and her friends. They couldn't care less for the old ones. It's the new ones they like.

You answered your own question Pants. A lot of stuff happens in California that doesn't happen anywhere else. Now I've seen many people dressed up when the movies came out, but I've never seen anyone dressed up at any other times. I mean, 400,000 people in the U.K and Australia put down Jedi as their religion. How strange is that?

But I have to agree with taa455. The overhwhelming majority of Star Wars fans just love them as movies. They don't get into all the other stuff, nor do that get as obssessive about it as the geeks do. So when we talk about the fanbase we really have to acknowledge that we're talking about a small percentage of them. You can certainly be a fan withou being a fanboy. I probably somewhere in between. Sometimes I cross into the fanboy realm, and it's usually on the internet or eve on this board.

I have to say that I am a bit of a nerd (see my web-site)

There's a big exibition in the UK this weekend where there'll be loads of us dressing up as stormtroopers, Fetts and probably a couple of Vaders as well.

It is a strange hobby but we do get to drink lots of beer, and we also get involved with a lot of events for charity so hopefully we're giving something back too.

That "dead" period wasn't exactly as "dead" as you imply.

I specifically remember the 10th anniversary Creation Star Wars cons as they slowly made their way across the country in 1987. In fact, for the Boston 10th Anniversary con back when I was in college, I even dressed up in my Tatooine fatigues (and a couple of my friends dressed as Corellian smugglers) and had several pictures taken with the C-3PO and R2-D2 droids on display.

I still remember agonizing over whether buying a mint-on-mint-card Amanaman action figure was worth the $75 they were charging at that con, ultimately deciding that on my meager college budget it was an outlandish price and passing over one of the most sought after action figures of the whole Kenner line.

And I have to disavow folks of the notion that those Timothy Zahn novels did anything to kick start the whole Star Wars fanbase whatsoever. I remember buying that first hardcover and happily bringing it home, eager to continue the Star Wars saga. But reading 2 or 3 chapters into it, I was so apalled by the poor writing and hamfisted storyline that I simply couldn't be bothered to pick up the subsequent novels.