When did Hollywood lose it?
12-31-02, 12:01 AM
#1
DVD Talk Legend & 2019 TOTY Winner
Thread Starter
When did Hollywood lose it?
maybe it's just me, but the originality has gone out of movies now.
IMO "the end" took place in the mid-90s even thought the end started in about 1991,IMO Hollywood puts out mostly crap now, sure there are a few good movies still being made but few and far between.
IMO "the end" took place in the mid-90s even thought the end started in about 1991,IMO Hollywood puts out mostly crap now, sure there are a few good movies still being made but few and far between.
12-31-02, 12:05 AM
#2
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Maybe you are new to the whole entertainment industry, but it has always churned out "crappy" movies between decent films. As for originality, it does become formulated after some time to something that makes money.
12-31-02, 12:11 AM
#3
And most TV shows are crap, and most CDs are crap, and most everything the media churns out is crap. And it has been ever since there has been any kind of media. I don't think there is a lack of good movies today. I have quite a few favorites on my shelf released in the past 5 years.
12-31-02, 12:18 AM
#4
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Word Calhoun. the point is, You have to have that crap out their in order to realize what is good. Cause if you have no bad, what can you put the good stuff up next to for judging?
12-31-02, 12:44 AM
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Study the enactment of the Telco Act of 1996 for some of the more non-sensationalistic answers.
Media companies are now thoroughly "corporatized," and this is largely (I believe) responsible for the further decline of mainstream Hollywood films in quality.
There will be an ugly adjustment period one of these years or decades where the studios will no longer be willing to pay actors $30 million a film, and where a studios' income will not be supported well enough by 3-5 "9 figure" budgeted "event films" a year.
You can already see this headache occurring at the studios which are chafing under the corporate yoke. For every AOL-TW that has its Harry Potters, Matrix-es and LOTRs (and they still hate having to answer to "the board" in tall office buildings), there are other entities that are hemorrhaging money because all they do are take overly expensive gambles.
DVD is changing everything now, hopefully for the better; as usual no one has a crystal ball and can see trends far into the future; it's just the nature of the movie business.
Media companies are now thoroughly "corporatized," and this is largely (I believe) responsible for the further decline of mainstream Hollywood films in quality.
There will be an ugly adjustment period one of these years or decades where the studios will no longer be willing to pay actors $30 million a film, and where a studios' income will not be supported well enough by 3-5 "9 figure" budgeted "event films" a year.
You can already see this headache occurring at the studios which are chafing under the corporate yoke. For every AOL-TW that has its Harry Potters, Matrix-es and LOTRs (and they still hate having to answer to "the board" in tall office buildings), there are other entities that are hemorrhaging money because all they do are take overly expensive gambles.
DVD is changing everything now, hopefully for the better; as usual no one has a crystal ball and can see trends far into the future; it's just the nature of the movie business.
12-31-02, 06:17 AM
#6
DVD Talk Godfather
I'd say since the 1950s when cheap monster films came out a dime a dozen to cash in on the sci-fi monster craze.
Then it got worse after Jaws and Star Wars, and it has stayed bad since then.
Then it got worse after Jaws and Star Wars, and it has stayed bad since then.
12-31-02, 07:32 AM
#7
DVD Talk Legend
From the mid to late 70's onward.
12-31-02, 08:21 AM
#9
DVD Talk Legend
While I have yet to get this confirmed, I heard that in the early to mid seventies the movie industry was in a great state of decline in terms of commercial successes. Apparently the indsutry came close to total shutdown (I doubt that). It wasn't until flicks like Jaws and Star Wars came along that the mega blockbuster returned.
However, in that time period before Jaws American Cinema saw some great flicks, such as The Godfathers I and II, Conversation, and several other non-Coppola ventures as well. Basically, the time where cinema was most quality, was when it was least commercial. Make sense?
In today's world, it's all about the Benjamins for the most part and unless you rent some indie flicks, you won't see the depth that used to exist anymore.
However, in that time period before Jaws American Cinema saw some great flicks, such as The Godfathers I and II, Conversation, and several other non-Coppola ventures as well. Basically, the time where cinema was most quality, was when it was least commercial. Make sense?
In today's world, it's all about the Benjamins for the most part and unless you rent some indie flicks, you won't see the depth that used to exist anymore.
12-31-02, 08:29 AM
#10
Moderator
Originally posted by The Bus
Then it got worse after Jaws and Star Wars, and it has stayed bad since then.
Then it got worse after Jaws and Star Wars, and it has stayed bad since then.
12-31-02, 09:16 AM
#11
DVD Talk Limited Edition
What is wrong with movies today? I love movies with special effects. What's the point of going to a movie. Entertainment. I want to see big effect shots, explosions, car jumps, and and a bazillion bullets being fired off. I would rather see goofy comedy like Ausin Powers then a 'witty' Woody Allen film any day of the week. I can read novels for drama.
I think Hollywood took the wrong path when they started to give independent artsy-fartsy movies more press. Now everyone creams their pants over independent movies and hates everything Hollywood puts out.
You know whenever there is some damn foreign film on Ebert and Roper, they will give it thumbs up. It could be a film about a dog taking a crap on the sidewalk and they'd praise it like it should get the best picture Oscar.
I think Hollywood took the wrong path when they started to give independent artsy-fartsy movies more press. Now everyone creams their pants over independent movies and hates everything Hollywood puts out.
You know whenever there is some damn foreign film on Ebert and Roper, they will give it thumbs up. It could be a film about a dog taking a crap on the sidewalk and they'd praise it like it should get the best picture Oscar.
12-31-02, 09:31 AM
#12
DVD Talk Gold Edition
I agree with the comment stated earlier that if every movie were good, there woud be nothing to distinguish from, there has been tons of movies that are horrible as of late (Rollerball,8 Legged Freaks, Knockaround Guys) but if one filters out the bad they will see that there are good movies out there such as The Matrix, Fight Club, Muholland Dr., Unbeakable,and Minority Report. (My favs are the ones were reality is not what it seems and the movie makes you think)
12-31-02, 09:38 AM
#13
Moderator
Originally posted by resinrats
What is wrong with movies today? I love movies with special effects. What's the point of going to a movie. Entertainment. I want to see big effect shots, explosions, car jumps, and and a bazillion bullets being fired off. I would rather see goofy comedy like Ausin Powers then a 'witty' Woody Allen film any day of the week. I can read novels for drama.
What is wrong with movies today? I love movies with special effects. What's the point of going to a movie. Entertainment. I want to see big effect shots, explosions, car jumps, and and a bazillion bullets being fired off. I would rather see goofy comedy like Ausin Powers then a 'witty' Woody Allen film any day of the week. I can read novels for drama.
The problem with movies today is that, by and large, they are made for idiots. I'm not calling anyone here an idiot, but what I am saying is that, because of attitudes like the one quoted above, motion picture companies assume we are all idiots, even though we aren't.
You want to see explosions, chase scenes, bullets flying? Great. No problem. More power to you. The problem is, fewer and fewer movies get made every year, and it's not fewer and fewer action movies, it's fewer and fewer dramas.
You can read novels for drama, true. So could I, but I'd rather not. I want to see art on the screen, not in the pages of a book. Film is the great art form of our time. It used to be drama, opera, literature. Now it's film.
Like I said in a previous post, entertainment is fine. I love to be entertained when I see movies. That's why I go. But chase scenes and explosions aren't entertaining, they're boring. Drama, real human conflict, is gripping, fascinating, entertaining.
12-31-02, 09:46 AM
#14
Senior Member
Originally posted by resinrats
It could be a film about a dog taking a crap on the sidewalk and they'd praise it like it should get the best picture Oscar.
It could be a film about a dog taking a crap on the sidewalk and they'd praise it like it should get the best picture Oscar.
I like it, I like it. But I think you're also onto something Resinrats. What's wrong with people liking shallow action/special effects movies? Not everyone is looking for deep meaning, underlying motives, or themes that challenge the standard in their movies. I think we (people who frequent DVDTalk) have to realize that the average moviegoer does not see/analyze as many films as we do and therefore probably has a less diverse taste in movies. We must also always keep in mind that Hollywood is in the business of making $ and therefore it will continue to put out movies that appeal to the average, I repeat average moviegoer because that is what will make the most $.
12-31-02, 10:01 AM
#16
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"But chase scenes and explosions aren't entertaining, they're boring."
Stated like fact when it is obviously anything but...
Just curious what proof you have to back up the "fact" that all movie watchers that like pretty girls, explosions, and guns are idiots.
Just to let you know Hollywood has always turned out bad movies, just because many more goods ones have survived from the 40's, 50's, 60's than bad ones does not mean that they were not created.
Stated like fact when it is obviously anything but...
Just curious what proof you have to back up the "fact" that all movie watchers that like pretty girls, explosions, and guns are idiots.
Just to let you know Hollywood has always turned out bad movies, just because many more goods ones have survived from the 40's, 50's, 60's than bad ones does not mean that they were not created.
12-31-02, 10:26 AM
#17
Moderator
Originally posted by FalconH10
"But chase scenes and explosions aren't entertaining, they're boring."
Stated like fact when it is obviously anything but...
"But chase scenes and explosions aren't entertaining, they're boring."
Stated like fact when it is obviously anything but...
Originally posted by FalconH10
"Just curious what proof you have to back up the "fact" that all movie watchers that like pretty girls, explosions, and guns are idiots.
"Just curious what proof you have to back up the "fact" that all movie watchers that like pretty girls, explosions, and guns are idiots.
Originally posted by FalconH10
Just to let you know Hollywood has always turned out bad movies, just because many more goods ones have survived from the 40's, 50's, 60's than bad ones does not mean that they were not created.
Just to let you know Hollywood has always turned out bad movies, just because many more goods ones have survived from the 40's, 50's, 60's than bad ones does not mean that they were not created.
12-31-02, 01:33 PM
#18
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If it were required that EVERY movie had explosions and car chases, do you think they would all be equally exciting? Or would you think most of them were carp, or even that all of them were boring (having to see the same thing every day.)
12-31-02, 01:57 PM
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I think they traced that back to the first Blockbuster in the 70s. Think it was Jaws. Great movie but thats whenb Hollywood studios started doing the Blockbuster crap.
12-31-02, 02:13 PM
#21
DVD Talk Legend
Only old movies are good, which is why even though fifteen years ago, all movies sucked, if you look at films of the 80s now, they're not so bad. In about ten years, they'll all rock. In twenty years, some might even make the AFI List!
12-31-02, 03:00 PM
#22
DVD Talk Legend
Interesting tidbit about 80s films. If you look at Oscar archives you will find that a grand majority of the films to get nominated for and/or win Best Picture were historical/period movies. Not just one every other year but almost every year. Hardly a single film that took place in the 80s itself ever got nominated.
Let's look:
1984-Amadeus
1985-Out of Africa
1986-Platoon
1987-Last Emperor
1988- Rain Man-first one in a long time to actually be in its own time period and win.
While I am unaware of the year, I know Chariots of Fire won as well; another period piece for all practical purposes.
That said, I love good fun and entertainment, but I don't want it so watered down that it insults my intelligence without at least a wink of the eye. Bring on films like Mummy Returns, Fast and Furious, and the Bad Boys flicks, but please, give me some stuff like LOTR, Pulp Fiction, and Goodfellas to balance it out in some manner.
What really makes me shake my head is when Hollywood releases a steaming pile of dung like Volcano, The Core, A Man Apart, or Extreme Ops. and then has studio execs. scratching their heads when they don't do well.
Let's look:
1984-Amadeus
1985-Out of Africa
1986-Platoon
1987-Last Emperor
1988- Rain Man-first one in a long time to actually be in its own time period and win.
While I am unaware of the year, I know Chariots of Fire won as well; another period piece for all practical purposes.
That said, I love good fun and entertainment, but I don't want it so watered down that it insults my intelligence without at least a wink of the eye. Bring on films like Mummy Returns, Fast and Furious, and the Bad Boys flicks, but please, give me some stuff like LOTR, Pulp Fiction, and Goodfellas to balance it out in some manner.
What really makes me shake my head is when Hollywood releases a steaming pile of dung like Volcano, The Core, A Man Apart, or Extreme Ops. and then has studio execs. scratching their heads when they don't do well.
Last edited by Dr. DVD; 12-31-02 at 03:04 PM.
12-31-02, 04:09 PM
#23
DVD Talk Hero
My list of 'good' movies
IMO, good movies in 2002
1. Punch-Drunk Love **** (Saw 3 Times)
2. Minority Report **** (Saw 2 Times)
3. The Fast Runner **** (Saw 2 Times)
4. Signs **** (Saw 3 Times)
5. The Rules of Attraction **** (Saw 2 Times)
6. The Two Towers ****
7. Blade II ****
8. E.T. ****
9. Spirited Away ****
10. Heaven ****
11. Insomnia ****
12. The Bourne Idenity ****
13. Bowling For Columbine ****
14. Big Trouble ****
15. Road to Perdition **** (Saw 2 Times)
16. Gangs of New York ****
17. Undercover Brother **** (Saw 2 Times)
18. Barbershop ****
19. Red Dragon ****
20. Panic Room ****
21. One Hour Photo ****
22. The Good Girl ***1/2
23. Moonlight Mile ***1/2
24. Femme Fatal ***1/2
25. Dogtown and Z Boys ***1/2
26. Auto Focus ***1/2
27. Orange County ***1/2
28. Sum of All Fears ***1/2 (Saw 2 Times)
29. Frailty ***1/2
30. 13 Conversations About One Thing ***1/2
IMO, good movies in 2001
1. The Mexican ****
2. Mulholland Drive ****
3. Heist **** (Saw 2 Times)
4. Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring **** (Saw 3 Times)
5. The Royal Tenebaums **** (Saw 5 Times)
6. In the Bedroom ****
7. Moulin Rouge ****
8. Amelie ****
9. AI **** (Saw 2 Times)
10. Baby Boy ****
11. O ****
12. Memento **** (Saw 2 Times)
13. Blow **** (Saw 3 Times)
14. Apocalypse Now Redux ****
15. The Man Who Wasn't There **** (Saw 2 Times)
16. Training Day ****
17. Hearts in Atlantis ****
18. Ocean's Eleven ****
19. Riding In Cars with Boys ****
20. The Others ****
21. Bandits ****
22. The Tailor of Panama ****
23. Waking Life ****
24. Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back ****
25. A Beautiful Mind ***1/2
26. Vanilla Sky ***1/2
27. Hannibal ***1/2
28. The Score ***1/2
IMO, good movies spanning over 2001/2002
The Royal Tenebaums **** (Saw 5 Times)
Lord of the Rings **** (Saw 4 Times)
The Man Who Wasn’t There (Saw 2 Times) ****
Monster’s Ball ****
Black Hawk Down ****
Ocean’s 11 ***1/2 (Saw 2 times)
In the Bedroom ****
Gosford Park ***
A Beautiful Mind ***1/2
Ali ***1/2
These movies are just the ***1/2 and **** films from my personal list that I have to keep track of what I've seen in theaters. There were also quite a few with a *** rating. Maybe I just like too many movies...
1. Punch-Drunk Love **** (Saw 3 Times)
2. Minority Report **** (Saw 2 Times)
3. The Fast Runner **** (Saw 2 Times)
4. Signs **** (Saw 3 Times)
5. The Rules of Attraction **** (Saw 2 Times)
6. The Two Towers ****
7. Blade II ****
8. E.T. ****
9. Spirited Away ****
10. Heaven ****
11. Insomnia ****
12. The Bourne Idenity ****
13. Bowling For Columbine ****
14. Big Trouble ****
15. Road to Perdition **** (Saw 2 Times)
16. Gangs of New York ****
17. Undercover Brother **** (Saw 2 Times)
18. Barbershop ****
19. Red Dragon ****
20. Panic Room ****
21. One Hour Photo ****
22. The Good Girl ***1/2
23. Moonlight Mile ***1/2
24. Femme Fatal ***1/2
25. Dogtown and Z Boys ***1/2
26. Auto Focus ***1/2
27. Orange County ***1/2
28. Sum of All Fears ***1/2 (Saw 2 Times)
29. Frailty ***1/2
30. 13 Conversations About One Thing ***1/2
IMO, good movies in 2001
1. The Mexican ****
2. Mulholland Drive ****
3. Heist **** (Saw 2 Times)
4. Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring **** (Saw 3 Times)
5. The Royal Tenebaums **** (Saw 5 Times)
6. In the Bedroom ****
7. Moulin Rouge ****
8. Amelie ****
9. AI **** (Saw 2 Times)
10. Baby Boy ****
11. O ****
12. Memento **** (Saw 2 Times)
13. Blow **** (Saw 3 Times)
14. Apocalypse Now Redux ****
15. The Man Who Wasn't There **** (Saw 2 Times)
16. Training Day ****
17. Hearts in Atlantis ****
18. Ocean's Eleven ****
19. Riding In Cars with Boys ****
20. The Others ****
21. Bandits ****
22. The Tailor of Panama ****
23. Waking Life ****
24. Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back ****
25. A Beautiful Mind ***1/2
26. Vanilla Sky ***1/2
27. Hannibal ***1/2
28. The Score ***1/2
IMO, good movies spanning over 2001/2002
The Royal Tenebaums **** (Saw 5 Times)
Lord of the Rings **** (Saw 4 Times)
The Man Who Wasn’t There (Saw 2 Times) ****
Monster’s Ball ****
Black Hawk Down ****
Ocean’s 11 ***1/2 (Saw 2 times)
In the Bedroom ****
Gosford Park ***
A Beautiful Mind ***1/2
Ali ***1/2
These movies are just the ***1/2 and **** films from my personal list that I have to keep track of what I've seen in theaters. There were also quite a few with a *** rating. Maybe I just like too many movies...
12-31-02, 04:12 PM
#25
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: My list of 'good' movies
Originally posted by troystiffler
IMO, good movies in 2002
1. Punch-Drunk Love **** (Saw 3 Times)
2. Minority Report **** (Saw 2 Times)
3. The Fast Runner **** (Saw 2 Times)
4. Signs **** (Saw 3 Times)
5. The Rules of Attraction **** (Saw 2 Times)
6. The Two Towers ****
7. Blade II ****
8. E.T. ****
9. Spirited Away ****
10. Heaven ****
11. Insomnia ****
12. The Bourne Idenity ****
13. Bowling For Columbine ****
14. Big Trouble ****
15. Road to Perdition **** (Saw 2 Times)
16. Gangs of New York ****
17. Undercover Brother **** (Saw 2 Times)
18. Barbershop ****
19. Red Dragon ****
20. Panic Room ****
21. One Hour Photo ****
22. The Good Girl ***1/2
23. Moonlight Mile ***1/2
24. Femme Fatal ***1/2
25. Dogtown and Z Boys ***1/2
26. Auto Focus ***1/2
27. Orange County ***1/2
28. Sum of All Fears ***1/2 (Saw 2 Times)
29. Frailty ***1/2
30. 13 Conversations About One Thing ***1/2
IMO, good movies in 2001
1. The Mexican ****
2. Mulholland Drive ****
3. Heist **** (Saw 2 Times)
4. Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring **** (Saw 3 Times)
5. The Royal Tenebaums **** (Saw 5 Times)
6. In the Bedroom ****
7. Moulin Rouge ****
8. Amelie ****
9. AI **** (Saw 2 Times)
10. Baby Boy ****
11. O ****
12. Memento **** (Saw 2 Times)
13. Blow **** (Saw 3 Times)
14. Apocalypse Now Redux ****
15. The Man Who Wasn't There **** (Saw 2 Times)
16. Training Day ****
17. Hearts in Atlantis ****
18. Ocean's Eleven ****
19. Riding In Cars with Boys ****
20. The Others ****
21. Bandits ****
22. The Tailor of Panama ****
23. Waking Life ****
24. Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back ****
25. A Beautiful Mind ***1/2
26. Vanilla Sky ***1/2
27. Hannibal ***1/2
28. The Score ***1/2
IMO, good movies spanning over 2001/2002
The Royal Tenebaums **** (Saw 5 Times)
Lord of the Rings **** (Saw 4 Times)
The Man Who Wasn’t There (Saw 2 Times) ****
Monster’s Ball ****
Black Hawk Down ****
Ocean’s 11 ***1/2 (Saw 2 times)
In the Bedroom ****
Gosford Park ***
A Beautiful Mind ***1/2
Ali ***1/2
These movies are just the ***1/2 and **** films from my personal list that I have to keep track of what I've seen in theaters. There were also quite a few with a *** rating. Maybe I just like too many movies...
IMO, good movies in 2002
1. Punch-Drunk Love **** (Saw 3 Times)
2. Minority Report **** (Saw 2 Times)
3. The Fast Runner **** (Saw 2 Times)
4. Signs **** (Saw 3 Times)
5. The Rules of Attraction **** (Saw 2 Times)
6. The Two Towers ****
7. Blade II ****
8. E.T. ****
9. Spirited Away ****
10. Heaven ****
11. Insomnia ****
12. The Bourne Idenity ****
13. Bowling For Columbine ****
14. Big Trouble ****
15. Road to Perdition **** (Saw 2 Times)
16. Gangs of New York ****
17. Undercover Brother **** (Saw 2 Times)
18. Barbershop ****
19. Red Dragon ****
20. Panic Room ****
21. One Hour Photo ****
22. The Good Girl ***1/2
23. Moonlight Mile ***1/2
24. Femme Fatal ***1/2
25. Dogtown and Z Boys ***1/2
26. Auto Focus ***1/2
27. Orange County ***1/2
28. Sum of All Fears ***1/2 (Saw 2 Times)
29. Frailty ***1/2
30. 13 Conversations About One Thing ***1/2
IMO, good movies in 2001
1. The Mexican ****
2. Mulholland Drive ****
3. Heist **** (Saw 2 Times)
4. Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring **** (Saw 3 Times)
5. The Royal Tenebaums **** (Saw 5 Times)
6. In the Bedroom ****
7. Moulin Rouge ****
8. Amelie ****
9. AI **** (Saw 2 Times)
10. Baby Boy ****
11. O ****
12. Memento **** (Saw 2 Times)
13. Blow **** (Saw 3 Times)
14. Apocalypse Now Redux ****
15. The Man Who Wasn't There **** (Saw 2 Times)
16. Training Day ****
17. Hearts in Atlantis ****
18. Ocean's Eleven ****
19. Riding In Cars with Boys ****
20. The Others ****
21. Bandits ****
22. The Tailor of Panama ****
23. Waking Life ****
24. Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back ****
25. A Beautiful Mind ***1/2
26. Vanilla Sky ***1/2
27. Hannibal ***1/2
28. The Score ***1/2
IMO, good movies spanning over 2001/2002
The Royal Tenebaums **** (Saw 5 Times)
Lord of the Rings **** (Saw 4 Times)
The Man Who Wasn’t There (Saw 2 Times) ****
Monster’s Ball ****
Black Hawk Down ****
Ocean’s 11 ***1/2 (Saw 2 times)
In the Bedroom ****
Gosford Park ***
A Beautiful Mind ***1/2
Ali ***1/2
These movies are just the ***1/2 and **** films from my personal list that I have to keep track of what I've seen in theaters. There were also quite a few with a *** rating. Maybe I just like too many movies...