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I said this in the other thread, but like <B>Signs</B>, I found this to be insanely predictable. It didn't take much attention to detail to know where they were going with the story before they got there. That being said, I enjoyed the film quite a bit, since I didn't think it built its success around being "surprising." I guess if you were surprised by what happened, then that adds some extra enjoyment, but I thought the story was pretty interesting and some of the actions were a bit haunting, and that made me enjoy the film on its own.
I certainly don't think it was a great film, but I did enjoy it and am interested in seeing Paxton direct more work. das |
so the idea of the God they are trying to present in the film doesnt really mesh with the God that the Christian faith believes in. It sure makes it seem like it's the Christian God that is telling the father to commit axe murder in front of his two young children, not something I could see him doing... |
Originally posted by Indy Jones Fan It's been a while since I went to Sunday School but I remember the bible being full of killing and torture...all in the name of God. I suspect more people have been killed in the name of "Christian faith" over the course of history than probably all other wars combined. The Old Testament does have some war in it, mainly against the Jews by the non-Jews. But again, I don't remember the Jews torturing anybody either. |
Like I said, its been a while but I remember people being stoned to death. Sodom and Gomarrah come to mind and then there was that whole flood thing in which God killed everyone on the planet except for Noah and his clan.
Ever hear of the Crusades? Believe in "The" God or we'll kill you. |
Here's some light -wink- reading for you and yes the Israelites were quite violent...following God's orders. He commanded them to kill men women and children on several occasions.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Creatio...-Violence.html http://www.humanismbyjoe.com/Violence_and_God.htm |
Just saw Frailty tonight (where have I been?)
Anyway, I had an interesting thought, although I am certainly not settled on it. Under the assumption that all visions were real, the Satan thing works really well. As most people know, Satan is described as the great deceiver, telling you anything you like to get you to sin. So, I assumed the family was already church-going, based on Adam singing a Sunday School song early on. Under this assumption, Satan could use this knowledge against Bill Paxton, telling him he's a spiritual warrior and such and to kill these demons. There are many things to be thought of in this direction. First, is the devil gets not 1 or 2, but 3 people to all commit brutal murder, and possibly more if Adam raises a child like him. Also, maybe others are out there, as Paxton says, "fighting demons". Also, if those killed were sinners, under typical Heaven/Hell rules, they received a quick trip to Hell. Me and the other two viewers discussed this scenario and it just seemed like an interesting one. So, I am interested what others think. |
outer-edge,
I appreciate your take on the film. If I'm I'm understanding you you're thinking Satan tricked Dad into killing the "demons"? My opinion is that Dad and Adam were in fact instructed by God to kill the demons. The only one I think was met by Satan and persuaded to join him was Fenton. Fenton killed his Dad, one of "God's warriors", and then went on to kill other people as an adult. People seem to be having a hard time believing that God would actually order people to kill other people. The old testament is full of hate, revenge, torture and killings all at God's command. The two links I provided above give some insight into this. |
Oh, I understand the argument of the Old Testment, but if you take the New Testament into account, God would never request this of people. Things happened in the Old Testament that were to never be carried out again. I believe in fact, I am no scripture quoter so bear with me, that Jesus said at some point his commands were to be the rules to follow, not those of the Old Testament?
In fact, a whole argument could be made about the nature of demons as well. Demons should not be destroyable, especially by humans. They are fallen angels and have always "been". While angels and demons fight a battle, I do not recall ever hearing of them being destroyed even by each other. This is why, even though these the people were sinners, I do not think they were demons, or even possessed by demons, they were simply bad people used as a means to an end. So, why would this innocent family be turned into brutal killers? That's why I do not think they were commanded by God. They were simply deceived in a very elaborate plan. Also, as a test to their faith, they failed. I have several family members who are devote Christians, I know none would pick up the axe. ;) While they would have been eager to please God, they should have known or looked into why would they be commanded of such a vicious act. However, as I said, this was just an interpretation I was thinking about. I am certainly not settled on this as being "it". :) It just seems to make more sense to me, but the fun of the movie is its mutiple ways to interpret it. :D |
Despite some of the beliefs expressed in this thread there is NOTHING in the movie to suggest Satan is controling Dad/Adam. Look at the differences in the Sheriff killing and the "demon" destroying for example.
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joltaddict,
I agree. Thats why I believe Fenton was visited by and corrupted by Satan when he was locked in the cellar. Fenton was certainly in a weakened and tempable state after being locked down there for so long. outer-edge, I have to disagree with you regarding the new testament. Here are some quotes I found from the second link I posted. Given God's history in the old testament there is no reason why he wouldn't command an innocent family to slay these demons. Regarding your family members...isn't a "devote" christian supposed to follow God's orders without question? -wink- Jesus' teachings make clear that God will actually be much more severe than the humans who employed torture in the parable. Unlike them, God will never stop the torture and his victims will never be able to "pay the debt in full." Because eternal torture is the most horrible pain that can be conceived, God and Jesus have succeeded in reaching the very pinnacle of viciousness and mercilessness. The book of Revelation states that in the end times, heavenly power and a sword will be given to a rider on a horse. He will be allowed to make men slaughter one another.[30] Another rider will be granted similar divine authority, including power to kill with the sword over a quarter of the earth.[31] Later, four angels and their cavalry of two hundred million will go forth to slay a third of mankind.[32] These conflicts are to culminate in Christ himself coming on a white horse, leading the armies of heaven. A sharp sword will extent from his mouth to smite the nations, whose armies will be killed by the sword.[ The God of the New Testament also uses animals to devour people. The book of Revelation states that one of the four horsemen of the Apocalypse will be given power over a quarter of the earth to kill with wild beasts.[97] That book also says that the Lord will cause locusts, having the power of scorpions, to come over the earth. For five months, the locusts will torment men who did not receive the seal of God on their foreheads. The torment will be like a scorpion's sting, and the pain will be so bad that the men will long for death but will not find it. And the book of Revelation indicates that Christ will behave likewise. In regard to a certain false prophetess who will lead his servants astray, the book quotes Jesus as promising to throw her on a bed of pain and strike dead her children. |
Yes Fenton became a demon. Thats what Dad didnt want to believe. I said theres nothing to support that Dad/Adam were being manipulated by satan. The cellar possesion theory still supports that Dad/Adam were Gods Hand.
Edit because I just realized you agree with me. :o :lol: No more Rum for Jolt tonight. |
Hey, my suggestions are only that, suggestions. I was only offering another response to the movie. :D
I don't want this to turn into a constant attempt for people to prove their side though, I just wanted to see if anyone else came to the possible conclusion I did, but it looks like no one did. I guess I also equate their actions to so many cults and individuals that kill or do other acts saying God told them so and truly believe it, but that does not mean it happened, even if we knew they had "visions" or other phenenom. |
Outer-edge,
Everything is fine, we're just talkin' here! You're take on the film is plausible but I think there are several clues in the movie that point in the other direction. Movies are open to interpretation so all opinions are welcome! |
Frailty: spoilers requested
I rented Frailty, watched the first hour...
and just when it started getting good... the DVD crapped out. :grunt: I hate Blockbuster. Anyway, I didn't have time to go argue with the ijits at the counter, so I just dumped the crap disc in the return slot. I'd love to learn the end of this movie, though, since it's supposed to be good. The last thing I saw, Fenton had been locked in the cellar, and the narrator mentioned that he (himself) went crazy and saw God. Then the disc locked up. What happens after that? - David Stein |
Spoiler:
Thats it in a nutshell, but really you should try to see the whole thing. It's a damn fine movie. Go buy it :) |
Re: Frailty: spoilers requested
Originally posted by sfsdfd I rented Frailty, watched the first hour... and just when it started getting good... the DVD crapped out. :grunt: I hate Blockbuster. Anyway, I didn't have time to go argue with the ijits at the counter, so I just dumped the crap disc in the return slot. snip ... So, you take it back and don't tell anyone so the problem disc gets passed to another movie lover. I wonder whether that's what the guy that rented it before you did .... just stuck it back into circulation .... What comes around goes around ...... |
Re: Re: Frailty: spoilers requested
Originally posted by ctyankee So, someone didn't take good care of the disc and it failed. So, you take it back and don't tell anyone so the problem disc gets passed to another movie lover. I think the problem is more the lack of a caddy system for the format. But that's a separate, and totally dead, issue. Thanks for the summary, <b>necros</b>. - David Stein |
spoilers...just saw frailty...spoilers ahead!!!!
so we just watched it last night and we couldn't figure out one twist....(warning, i'm not using black bars)
SPOILERS BELOW... did fenton ever kill anyone or was adam doing it in his name to "protect the mission"? |
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WTF? i did a search in these forums AND in the archives and came up with nothing except the dvd replacement covers thread!??! i knew there were threads but couldnt find any.
oh well, sorry about the dup and thanks for the links! |
If youre looking for an movie thats been released for a while you have to take the default off of this month.
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Frailty: Question for those that have seen it...
I want other people's opinions on this film. I really enjoyed it. I watched it twice back to back... first without commentary, then with Paxton's commentary.
For a directorial debut, Paxton did a hell of a job. Personally, I also think this is McConnaghey's best film. Which of you thought it was good,bad, why? BD |
Lots of discussion about the movie in this thread (which has many spoilers, so be warned if you haven't seen the film):
http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=237536 I liked it a lot when I first saw it in the theater, liked it even more after watching it again on DVD and hearing the commentaries. |
I never once got the impression that Fenton was killing anyone, after he killed his father. I've watched it twice back to back, and never saw any of these signs. What am I missing?
Oh wait, never mind. I forgot... ah forget it. Just tired. :D |
the one thing, IMO, that they could have done to make it less obvious that McConaughey was Adam and not Fenton would have been to get two kid actors that looked somewhat similar (at least both blonde...)
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