Yeah, but how long is "soon" to God? :)

TCG not that it really matters but I think you misconstrued what I said.

- I believe its possible for someone to wait in an FBI office. I could be wrong. <i>yes, of course someone can wait in an agent’s office. The key point is that there are <u>crime scene photos</u> on the wall. These are evidence. No law enforcement agency, even in Texas, would allow a potential witness or suspect to view evidence except under planned and controlled circumstances. </i>

- as far as the FBI agent knew, adam was making it all up. He couldn't gather up a force of agents to explore someone's story one night. <i> There was no pressing need to follow up on his story immediately. The idea that the agent would just take off alone in the middle of the night to check out a wild story just doesn’t ring true to me. He would have waited until the next day and involved other agents. Since there was no imminent crime to be prevented, why the rush to follow up on it?</i>

- i understand how u see it as contrived. But Doyle's murder is the entire reason Adam went to his office; to trick him by telling him the story, and then to "destroy" him. <i>yes, I understand that is the point of Adam’s visit. As presented in the movie that crime just seemed to far fetched with out any background. A crime more in line with a law enforcement official, e.g. killing someone in a bribe gone bad, would have been easier for me to swallow. Or the director could have set up the murder to sell it to the audience.</i>

Yes, there are two references to the name "Curtis". The first is the name of the pet spider (or whatever it is) in the jar.
The second occurs near the end of the film, in the sherrif's office. An older guy is seen leaving the office, and the secretary says something like "See you later, Curtis." We also see him outside, as he's walking down the street away from the sherrif's office.

A question: Paxton says he's going to receive 3 weapons from God. Obviously, the axe and the pipe are two of them. Were the gloves supposed to be considered as one of them?

Also, I liked how after 'Fenton' spent the first day digging the whole, he had circles of blood on his hands, as if it was a case of stigmata.

Who was the one who shot himself in the beginnig of the film? I'm thinking it was Fenton but then you see Adam kill him later in the movie, whats going on.

nobody shot themselves. I know, it shows it in the movie, but that was part of Adam's lie to the FBI agent, because Adam actually killed Fenton.

and the gloves were considered a weapon, as far as i know.

I loved this movie. The kind that you think is pretty good when you leave the theater, but then it stays in your head all day and longer.

One of my favorite scenes was when Paxton kills the policeman. Here he is, destroying the demons, and becomes sickened with himself and his son after killing the sheriff. Just a great scene, IMO.

As for the brothers, I'm not sure whether Fenton was a soldier of God or just a murderer. The Angel told their dad to bury them in the rose garden, yet Fenton kept them in his basement. If he really went along with Adam, I'm sure he would not keep the bodies. However, the newest list of 7 demons was posted above Fenton's desk. Maybe Adam put it there after killing him. Eh, it's debateable.

Adam kills Fenton because he is a demon, as their dad said. I think the dad is told his son's a demon because the angel knows that Fenton will kill him. And perhaps Fenton kills his dad because in his seclusion in the cellar, he says he found God, and God might have told him that his dad was a demon. Hell, the dad kept him down there for weeks, IIRC. This might support the theory that Fenton was a God's Hand killer too.

lol I'll hopefully make up my mind soon.

But an overall great movie. 4 stars*

Adam said that he knew fenton was a murderer, but couldn't do anything about it until he appeared on his list. So Adam is the only soldier of God (at least according to Adam). And when i watched it, i took it that Adam planted the wallet and list at Fenton's house.

this was one thing that I kept thinking about. did fenton even "find god?" since the entire story is told by Adam, how would he know if Fenton actually found god? sure, fenton could have told him, but fenton was probably lying, just wanting to get out of the cellar. fenton's time in the cellar, and his dad's "abuse," had to have contributed to his becoming a deranged killer.

finally saw this movie last weekend and i have to say its GREAT!!!

^Agreed. :D

I would give this film a score with a 9/10. It's one of those better new horror flicks I've seen in a long time. Most new horror flicks sucks because they are mostly teen slasher flicks but this one isn't. This film is more self thought provoking and it didn't overdo the blood and gore too much. Plus, the cinematography and story is excellent. I will buy this DVD for sure. :)

I went with a friend to see this and missed the first ten minutes. I started with the part when someone supposedly committed suicide. And I have a perplexing question, how do we know that Fenton was also a serial killer? I thought Adam was the only one.

Frailty too predictable??? [spoilers w/o tags]
 

I tried writing this w/o giving too much away, but it wasn't make any sense ;)

I just finished watching this movie and I have to say nothing really took me by surprise. Before they left the office you knew the FBI agent was dead because he was a "demon" (I didn't really guess the thing about the mother but that didn't really matter). After Fenton "saw god" it was obvious (to me) that he was going to kill his father. The big "switch" of Adam/Fenton wasn't really all that surprising either, I mean it could have gone either way (the did it or they didn't) and it really wouldn't have changed that much over all. The final thing about Adam being the Sheriff is pretty much the same way. When the FBI agent walked into the office you knew who was going to be there.

Overall it felt like the way Billy Crystal described Danny Devitos book in "Throw Mama from the Train". Something to the effect of it's hard to write a convincing murder mystery when you only have two characters and one of them is dead on page two.

Have I just seen too many suspense/thrillers to be shocked anymore :confused: Was I the only one who felt this way?

The only twist i saw coming was Adam being the sheriff. Despite that, i think Frailty is a damned good film.
What i wonder however is that if they were really being guided by God, or instigated by the devil. I say God, but my girlfriend insists that it was the devil's doing....

I saw a lot of it coming too, but that did not in any way detract from my enjoyment of it. Yes, I guessed that Mathew McConaughey was actually Adam, and I guessed that Doyle was gonna get killed, but there were many little details that I never saw coming. When Adam finally revealed who he was, I assumed at that point that <i>he</i> was the "God's Hand Killer", but the movie goes on to reveal that it actually was Fenton who killed all the people (Well, Adam did too, but those were "demons", and the bodies were never found).

I had one plot question. At the end, when the FBI goes to Fenton's home and finds his victims in the basement, they also find a list of demons with Dolyes name at the bottom. Am I correct in assuming that Adam planted this here?

Oh yeah, one more thing. I am confused as to how the term "God's Hand Killer" was coined. Who knew that the killings were based on visions from God? I thought the only people who knew that were the boys and their dad. Anyway, the bodies that were found were only those that were killed by Fenton, and not Adam (right?). But Adam was the one who was "doing God's will," not Fenton.

Re: Frailty too predictable??? [spoilers w/o tags]
 

No, you certainly were not.

I just watched it tonight, and yes, I pretty much knew as soon as the concept of demons and the list arrived that a) the FBI agent was a demon, and b) he would be killed.

Like you, I didn't see the switch with the mother murder coming, but it's not like that could make the movie one way or the other.

Nonetheless, I admired a lot of the film and the acting was very good, especially for the drama.

But to me it's far from a four star movie like I know a lot of critics, Ebert included, made it out to be. I'm still torn between a 6 and 7 for my imdb rating.

Re: Re: Frailty too predictable??? [spoilers w/o tags]
 

You're actually "torn" about something as insignifigant as that? :o

I for one did absolutely not see this ending coming! This was, to me, a pretty damn good film. Up until the end. Then I was flabbergasted!

The final touch reminded me of a Shyamalan pic. Routine and then …POW!!!

Needless to say, I'm happy with it. :)

If I understood correctly Fenton was the one who put the phrase on a note w/ the body of the first person he killed. It was a way of drawing Adam out from "hiding". Although why Fenton didn't know Adam had become the Sheriff of their old home town goes unexplained ;) The bodies that were found in the basement of the house were Fenton's doing and all the victims of the "God's Hand Killer" (along w/ the body of Fenton). The only one missing was the FBI agent since Adam put his body with his usual "collection". Speaking of which though those bodies weren't buried very deep, don't you think someone would have found them by now in a public rose garden...

Re: Re: Frailty too predictable??? [spoilers w/o tags]
 

Maybe I'm being too critical but the more I think about it the lower my rating goes. I started by giving it a 3/5 on my netflix rating. I went back though and lowered it to a 2. I guess for me the thing I like about thrillers (and maybe I'm putting this movie into the wrong genre) is that they stimulate conversation. There really isn't much that was left to question about this one.

I think that goes along with the whole "God will blind them" thing.

I thought the present-day ending was a bit murky and unconvincing-- Fenton never really believes his dad, and finally kills his father to stop him from murdering people, and then starts murdering people himself to "draw out" his brother? They're both killing people, but both think the one's motive is wrong? Just didn't make sense to me... But then, neither did the "identity switch" when you find out McCoughnahey is Adam... Too many plot conveniences and cheats...

It was weird that the true nature of the visions is ambiguous for 3/4 of the movie--and then is suddenly shown to be real. I don't mind weird... But then, if God was really behind the killings, were the victims really demons? If not, what does that make God?

Frailty-Fantastic!!!!
 

Enough said. I watched it last night and loved it. How did it get a "R" rating??? The subject matter was dark, but there was no actual gore or images of gore. The most blood was the son's hands after digging.

I agree...great movie. I predicted some of the "surprises" towards the end but a few really got me. The performances and the direction were excellent.

The subject matter and the tone of the movie were definitely enough to give it an "R" rating in my opinion. While there wasn't much gore, the film is much too intense for kids. I think the rating was completely appropriate.

Fenton wasn't killing "demons" as was his father and brother. He was killing for pure pleasure as he was a demon himself. Fenton didn't see God when he was locked in the cellar. He was actually visited by Satan who was his "god" since he was an evil person. So when he told his father he was visited by god he was not lying. His god told him to kill his father not to stop him from killing "people" but to stop him from killing more of Satan's followers. Fenton tries to draw out his brother to kill him because he is one of God's chosen warriors.

This is so far the best movie of 2002 IMO. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time.

When I first heard about this movie being directed be Bill Paxton, I thought "oh great, that clown". :) I was very impressed with the way this movie turned out.

I'll have to rent it.