Regional Coding Enhanced - Player Problems Expected
10-07-00, 01:51 AM
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This is an article taken from the DVD Debate web site that might interest our international members:
"Warner Brothers have issued an internal note on an enhanced Region Coding Scheme to DVD Suppliers in R1.
The new advanced approach may render some R1 discs unplayable on existing Multiregion players. Known discs to include this technology are The Perfect Storm and Columbia Tristar's The Patriot. Read more to see the actual note...
Regional Code Enhancement (RCE) Program
WHV will start a program to enhance the capabilities of the regional code specification for DVD beginning in October. This program is a response to the unauthorized practice of altering DVD video hardware players so that they bypass the region code requirements for DVD. This is happening on a more frequent basis in many territories, and retailers are openly marketing these non-complying players with names such as “region free” and “multi zone”.
The Technology – The enhancement is an additional imbedded code (RCE – Regional Code Enhancement) on the DVD disc that makes the current regional coding more robust.
How It Works – In simple language, the RCE allows the disc to detect if a hardware player is region specific (as required by the CSS licensing agreement), or if it has been manufactured or altered in the market to be “region free”. If the player is “region free” the RCE will not allow the disc to play the program material. It will instead display a message on the television advising the consumer that the machine is not authorized to play this disc.
The actual wording will be as follows:
THIS DVD PLAYER MAY HAVE BEEN ALTERED AND IS UNABLE TO PLAY THIS DISC
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS DISC
DVD PLAYERS AND DISCS ARE DESIGNED TO WORK IN CERTAIN REGIONS
THIS DISC IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THIS PLAYER
PLEASE CONTACT YOUR LOCAL RETAILER OR PLAYER MANUFACTURER FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
WE APOLOGIZE FOR ANY INCONVENIENCE (Yeah Right!)
WHV will start applying the RCE to discs scheduled for release in the U.S. market beginning in late October. At this time, the RCE will only be applied to Region 1 versions of titles. At least one other studio (Columbia TriStar) will also be releasing discs with the RCE during the 4th quarter.
The program has two objectives. (1) Discourage the export of region 1 discs to other regions and (2) discourage the sale of DVD video hardware that has been modified to “region free”.
WHV Sales personnel should immediately begin to communicate this program to key retailers in their respective territories.
It is especially important to focus on retailers selling product online, and any account, which may be exporting products outside Region 1.
With the online retailers, we must discuss the need to properly notify consumers outside the region 1 territories that the disc may not play in their player before the disc is purchased. The customer dissatisfaction and returns risk is significant if this is not done.
At this time there is no plan to send out a press release on this program. This document should be used to review the program with all U.S. accounts
------------------
MY SHORT BUT SLOWLY EXPANDING DVD LIST
MY GETTING LONGER BUT SLOWLY EXPANDING DVD LIST
"The earth does not belong to people; people belong to the earth. Everything that happens to the earth happens also to the sons and daughters of the earth." -Chief Seattle.
"Warner Brothers have issued an internal note on an enhanced Region Coding Scheme to DVD Suppliers in R1.
The new advanced approach may render some R1 discs unplayable on existing Multiregion players. Known discs to include this technology are The Perfect Storm and Columbia Tristar's The Patriot. Read more to see the actual note...
Regional Code Enhancement (RCE) Program
WHV will start a program to enhance the capabilities of the regional code specification for DVD beginning in October. This program is a response to the unauthorized practice of altering DVD video hardware players so that they bypass the region code requirements for DVD. This is happening on a more frequent basis in many territories, and retailers are openly marketing these non-complying players with names such as “region free” and “multi zone”.
The Technology – The enhancement is an additional imbedded code (RCE – Regional Code Enhancement) on the DVD disc that makes the current regional coding more robust.
How It Works – In simple language, the RCE allows the disc to detect if a hardware player is region specific (as required by the CSS licensing agreement), or if it has been manufactured or altered in the market to be “region free”. If the player is “region free” the RCE will not allow the disc to play the program material. It will instead display a message on the television advising the consumer that the machine is not authorized to play this disc.
The actual wording will be as follows:
THIS DVD PLAYER MAY HAVE BEEN ALTERED AND IS UNABLE TO PLAY THIS DISC
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS DISC
DVD PLAYERS AND DISCS ARE DESIGNED TO WORK IN CERTAIN REGIONS
THIS DISC IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THIS PLAYER
PLEASE CONTACT YOUR LOCAL RETAILER OR PLAYER MANUFACTURER FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
WE APOLOGIZE FOR ANY INCONVENIENCE (Yeah Right!)
WHV will start applying the RCE to discs scheduled for release in the U.S. market beginning in late October. At this time, the RCE will only be applied to Region 1 versions of titles. At least one other studio (Columbia TriStar) will also be releasing discs with the RCE during the 4th quarter.
The program has two objectives. (1) Discourage the export of region 1 discs to other regions and (2) discourage the sale of DVD video hardware that has been modified to “region free”.
WHV Sales personnel should immediately begin to communicate this program to key retailers in their respective territories.
It is especially important to focus on retailers selling product online, and any account, which may be exporting products outside Region 1.
With the online retailers, we must discuss the need to properly notify consumers outside the region 1 territories that the disc may not play in their player before the disc is purchased. The customer dissatisfaction and returns risk is significant if this is not done.
At this time there is no plan to send out a press release on this program. This document should be used to review the program with all U.S. accounts
------------------
MY SHORT BUT SLOWLY EXPANDING DVD LIST
MY GETTING LONGER BUT SLOWLY EXPANDING DVD LIST
"The earth does not belong to people; people belong to the earth. Everything that happens to the earth happens also to the sons and daughters of the earth." -Chief Seattle.
10-07-00, 03:18 AM
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I knew there was a good reason I didn’t have my US players hacked and chose to buy an additional UK player as well - Boy am I ever smart! Bad news all around though, especially at a time when we should be seeing less application of regional coding, not more.
10-07-00, 08:04 AM
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I may have misread this, but there is a vast difference between 'region-free' players and 'multi-region' players. I've got a 'multi-region' Pioneer 626 (with a semi-offical region free chip in it) and I've got no problems with the aforementioned discs.
The problem is that some 'region-free' players are being marketed as 'multi-region' (please take note Richer Sounds stores) and people are being told that their player will play all discs from all regions, when this is not always the case.
Rant over.
Foxy.
The problem is that some 'region-free' players are being marketed as 'multi-region' (please take note Richer Sounds stores) and people are being told that their player will play all discs from all regions, when this is not always the case.
Rant over.
Foxy.
10-07-00, 08:24 AM
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Foxy, unfortunately I think you may have mis-read it:
In simple language, the RCE allows the disc to detect if a hardware player is region specific (as required by the CSS licensing agreement), or if it has been manufactured or altered in the market to be “region free”. If the player is “region free” the RCE will not allow the disc to play the program material. It will instead display a message on the television advising the consumer that the machine is not authorized to play this disc.
Meaning unless it has a chip dedicated to one region only it will block the player from reading the disc. I think the "aforementioned discs" also happened to be Perfect Storm and The Patriot neither of which are released yet so how do you know if your player can play them or not?
Hope this fades away like DIVX, and I’m a little surprised it’s Warners instigating this and not Di$ney. I guess this explains the message at Amazon checkout about compatibility problems. Boy, imagine the number of discs people will be trying to return if this comes to pass!
[This message has been edited by jonathan.e (edited October 07, 2000).]
In simple language, the RCE allows the disc to detect if a hardware player is region specific (as required by the CSS licensing agreement), or if it has been manufactured or altered in the market to be “region free”. If the player is “region free” the RCE will not allow the disc to play the program material. It will instead display a message on the television advising the consumer that the machine is not authorized to play this disc.
Meaning unless it has a chip dedicated to one region only it will block the player from reading the disc. I think the "aforementioned discs" also happened to be Perfect Storm and The Patriot neither of which are released yet so how do you know if your player can play them or not?
Hope this fades away like DIVX, and I’m a little surprised it’s Warners instigating this and not Di$ney. I guess this explains the message at Amazon checkout about compatibility problems. Boy, imagine the number of discs people will be trying to return if this comes to pass!
[This message has been edited by jonathan.e (edited October 07, 2000).]
10-07-00, 10:04 AM
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quote:<HR>Originally posted by jonathan.e:
Foxy, unfortunately I think you may have mis-read it:
In simple language, the RCE allows the disc to detect if a hardware player is region specific (as required by the CSS licensing agreement), or if it has been manufactured or altered in the market to be “region free”. If the player is “region free” the RCE will not allow the disc to play the program material. It will instead display a message on the television advising the consumer that the machine is not authorized to play this disc.
Meaning unless it has a chip dedicated to one region only it will block the player from reading the disc. I think the "aforementioned discs" also happened to be Perfect Storm and The Patriot neither of which are released yet so how do you know if your player can play them or not?
Hope this fades away like DIVX, and I’m a little surprised it’s Warners instigating this and not Di$ney. I guess this explains the message at Amazon checkout about compatibility problems. Boy, imagine the number of discs people will be trying to return if this comes to pass!
[This message has been edited by jonathan.e (edited October 07, 2000).]<HR>
Doh, sorry mind addled from last night, I recently hired out The Patriot (Seagal one) not the Gibson-english bashing version.
Apart from that, I still stand by my original point. I can't see how you can produce a disc that can identify whether all (if you are correct in your point about 'manufactured and altered' players then you can still question the legality of what Warners are doing - it would no longer be a standard DVD disc they would be producing). Didn't Buena Vista announce the same thing a while back? I have no problem with their disks.
Personally I just think it's a scare tactic and I'll choose to ignore the statement for the time being.
Anyways, it won't make too much of a difference. Region 1 DVD players are readily available in this country whether Warners like it or not and I'd wager that most consumers buying region 1 discs are DVD enthusiasts and will purchase a new player (and probably sell my region 2 one). The money I save buying region 1 discs will offset any cost of a new player.
The fact is that it is only the average Dixon's shopper that buys region 2 discs, and the consumers buying region one discs will carry on doing so. What can Warners gain from this?
Foxy
[This message has been edited by Foxy Slamdangle (edited October 07, 2000).]
10-07-00, 02:39 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Foxy Slamdangle:
[B]I may have misread this, but there is a vast difference between 'region-free' players and 'multi-region' players. I've got a 'multi-region' Pioneer 626 (with a semi-offical region free chip in it) and I've got no problems with the aforementioned discs.
The problem is that some 'region-free' players are being marketed as 'multi-region' (please take note Richer Sounds stores) and people are being told that their player will play all discs from all regions, when this is not always the case.
Rant over.
ALSO ON DVD DEBATE
DVD Protection could be worse than we thought!
Fri Oct 6 14:55:14 2000
I have just recieved word that many mod companies such as Techtronics and Scan that they have recieved a test disc for the new protection system.
Many DVD Players refuse to load the test disc, even when the manual switching was enabled. This could now prove to be a big problem. The Sony 525, 725 & 7700 do not load the disc. Pioneer
525, 626D and the 717 do not load, but the new Pioneer players are ok. It does depend on which firmware you got though, so there is a chance that some might work.
They are currently in testing with many different DVD players, but these are the only ones they have tried so far. It could prove a costly thing to get our players rechipped or firmware upgraded. Patriot is the first title to have the protection system on it
WELL FOXY NOTE THE PIONEER MENTIONED
I ONLY HOPE MY CHIPPED SAMSUNG IS OK
[B]I may have misread this, but there is a vast difference between 'region-free' players and 'multi-region' players. I've got a 'multi-region' Pioneer 626 (with a semi-offical region free chip in it) and I've got no problems with the aforementioned discs.
The problem is that some 'region-free' players are being marketed as 'multi-region' (please take note Richer Sounds stores) and people are being told that their player will play all discs from all regions, when this is not always the case.
Rant over.
ALSO ON DVD DEBATE
DVD Protection could be worse than we thought!
Fri Oct 6 14:55:14 2000
I have just recieved word that many mod companies such as Techtronics and Scan that they have recieved a test disc for the new protection system.
Many DVD Players refuse to load the test disc, even when the manual switching was enabled. This could now prove to be a big problem. The Sony 525, 725 & 7700 do not load the disc. Pioneer
525, 626D and the 717 do not load, but the new Pioneer players are ok. It does depend on which firmware you got though, so there is a chance that some might work.
They are currently in testing with many different DVD players, but these are the only ones they have tried so far. It could prove a costly thing to get our players rechipped or firmware upgraded. Patriot is the first title to have the protection system on it
WELL FOXY NOTE THE PIONEER MENTIONED
I ONLY HOPE MY CHIPPED SAMSUNG IS OK
10-08-00, 01:52 AM
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Hang on.I want to give Warners cold hard cash for their products,right?Not just because I don't want to wait for them to be released in R4,but because alot of titles will NEVER be released in R4,and some will be released as vastly inferior and more expensive versions of the R1 discs.
E.G.Fight Club,not Warners I know,but the R4 version comes with a bonus feature:the theatrical trailer....that's it.No commentarys,not even a stereo option.Why is it wrong for me to want to buy one of my all time favourite movies in the vastly superior R1 version?
Warners:I will not spend money on vastly infereior product released locally when I know full well where to go to get the best product.You are shooting yourselves in the foot and I am insulted that you don't want me to spend money with you.Bring it on if you must...there will be a hack available within a week...you ignorant fools
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Hey!I always notice that bored look on their face...Chasing Amy
E.G.Fight Club,not Warners I know,but the R4 version comes with a bonus feature:the theatrical trailer....that's it.No commentarys,not even a stereo option.Why is it wrong for me to want to buy one of my all time favourite movies in the vastly superior R1 version?
Warners:I will not spend money on vastly infereior product released locally when I know full well where to go to get the best product.You are shooting yourselves in the foot and I am insulted that you don't want me to spend money with you.Bring it on if you must...there will be a hack available within a week...you ignorant fools
------------------
Hey!I always notice that bored look on their face...Chasing Amy
10-09-00, 01:10 PM
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This really freaked me out when I got an e-mail regarding it from a friend - it was like, "What the f**k?!?"
My point of view is this - one way or another, we are still buying the DVDs from the company, no matter what the Region is that we buy. We buy them because we love the movie, and they still want to stop us from buying them??
I am so annoyed - I know it shouldn't wind me up but it does!!
What they gonna start doing next?? Chipping CD players so we can't buy imports of them too???
I just hope you guys are right and this turns out to be another flash in the pan......
CrazyBlade
------------------
That's no moon - its a space station......
My point of view is this - one way or another, we are still buying the DVDs from the company, no matter what the Region is that we buy. We buy them because we love the movie, and they still want to stop us from buying them??
I am so annoyed - I know it shouldn't wind me up but it does!!
What they gonna start doing next?? Chipping CD players so we can't buy imports of them too???
I just hope you guys are right and this turns out to be another flash in the pan......
CrazyBlade
------------------
That's no moon - its a space station......
10-10-00, 12:06 AM
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According to www.thedvdforums.com , someone asked techtronics about the test disk and they said they replied they have never received any test disk !!. It would appear that some of these so called facts are purely made up.
We shall find out soon enough when Perfect Storm and The Patriot arrive.
We shall find out soon enough when Perfect Storm and The Patriot arrive.
10-10-00, 06:19 AM
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From dvddebate.com..
News on RCE, Our Views, and Confirmation
Posted on Tuesday, October 10 @ 09:47:30 /etc/localtime
Please read this editorial for the latest on RCE and our views. Plus confirmation that it does exist, and what players will be affected.
P.s. It's not all doom and gloom...
Following our announcement regarding RCE there has been a flood of speculation as to what the region coding enhancement can and cannot do. These have varied from being a standard R0 blocker to all out intelligent DVD Player fooling logic.
We have been asked to further comment on the Enhancements even though we are at the end of the day just the messengers. We have not formally responded to the e-mails and forum messages because we wanted to learn more and also importantly get some confirmation on the discs. So here goes...
Firstly we know that the RCE Coding is not smart enough to fool players that can be manually set to a specific region code. So if you can set your region code to a particular region you should be OK. For example the Techtronics Multimod allows a Sony 725 to be set to any region by pressing the appropriate region number on the remote whilst the machine is on Standby. This type of Region Code setting should be fine. Most modern Players allow a firmware setting/handset hack of this kind. We have had The Patriot tested on a Sony SDP-7000 Multiregion and it played just fine.
Autodetecting Region Code methods such as the Budget mods in theory should be OK as they do not respond to the Disc until the Region Code has been read.
What does not work is the R0 setting. The discs positively refuse to play. An example of this has been posted on DVD Journal using the Apex 600a player forced to R0. With this setting the disc does not work. However forcing the firmware to R1 allows the disc to work.
If you have a R0 only machine then it is highly likely you will fall foul of these discs.
So what should you do? First and foremost there is no need to panic. This approach appears no more advanced than that used on MGM discs. It does appear to be a little bit more clever say along the lines of Jap Species 2 NTSC R2 but again if you can force the firmware of your player to a specific region you should be OK.
You shouldn't go importing a US Player, US PS2 or buying a new UK Player until you know for sure that the discs do not work. Even then a firmware upgrade is highly likely to be considerably cheaper than a new Machine.
News on RCE, Our Views, and Confirmation
Posted on Tuesday, October 10 @ 09:47:30 /etc/localtime
Please read this editorial for the latest on RCE and our views. Plus confirmation that it does exist, and what players will be affected.
P.s. It's not all doom and gloom...
Following our announcement regarding RCE there has been a flood of speculation as to what the region coding enhancement can and cannot do. These have varied from being a standard R0 blocker to all out intelligent DVD Player fooling logic.
We have been asked to further comment on the Enhancements even though we are at the end of the day just the messengers. We have not formally responded to the e-mails and forum messages because we wanted to learn more and also importantly get some confirmation on the discs. So here goes...
Firstly we know that the RCE Coding is not smart enough to fool players that can be manually set to a specific region code. So if you can set your region code to a particular region you should be OK. For example the Techtronics Multimod allows a Sony 725 to be set to any region by pressing the appropriate region number on the remote whilst the machine is on Standby. This type of Region Code setting should be fine. Most modern Players allow a firmware setting/handset hack of this kind. We have had The Patriot tested on a Sony SDP-7000 Multiregion and it played just fine.
Autodetecting Region Code methods such as the Budget mods in theory should be OK as they do not respond to the Disc until the Region Code has been read.
What does not work is the R0 setting. The discs positively refuse to play. An example of this has been posted on DVD Journal using the Apex 600a player forced to R0. With this setting the disc does not work. However forcing the firmware to R1 allows the disc to work.
If you have a R0 only machine then it is highly likely you will fall foul of these discs.
So what should you do? First and foremost there is no need to panic. This approach appears no more advanced than that used on MGM discs. It does appear to be a little bit more clever say along the lines of Jap Species 2 NTSC R2 but again if you can force the firmware of your player to a specific region you should be OK.
You shouldn't go importing a US Player, US PS2 or buying a new UK Player until you know for sure that the discs do not work. Even then a firmware upgrade is highly likely to be considerably cheaper than a new Machine.
