OldBoy

Just want to know if this is worth the upgrade for extras and is the DTS killer? I suppose this will never come to R1...

OldBoy

no one has this?

Josh Z

The UK version is PAL, so the benefits of DTS will be outweighed by the 4% speedup. An NTSC DTS edition was released in Japan a couple of years ago.

http://www.dvdfile.com/software/revi...inator_ue.html

I believe it went out of print, then came back in print again for a time. I think it's out of print again now, unfortunately.

Reservoir

Nonsense. Do you own the new DVD? No, of course you don't. You'd be as well to copy & paste the same answer (in fact I think you do, looking back at your PAL comments). There seems to be a few people on this forum that have nothing better to do with their time than to repeat the same mantra without actually owning the DVDs.


The new release is excellent as is the DTS. Can't say I noticed much that's amazing on the extras (2 extra documentaries I think) but if you want that extra sound option and a new transfer then go for it!

Obviously if your setup is NTSC only then getting a NTSC version would be best.

Josh Z

Fer chrissakes, not this again. It is a fact that PAL speeds up movies by 4% and negatively affects the audio. This is not an opinion; it is an indisputable fact, just like saying that the world is round, the sun rises in the east, and Uwe Boll makes terrible movies. You might as well argue that water isn't wet.

That isn't to say that there can't be DVDs that sound good despite the PAL speedup, but if someone is specifically trying to obtain the best sounding edition of a movie they shouldn't be buying a PAL disc. The DD 5.1 track on the R1 Terminator SE is presented at its proper playback speed and will sound better than a PAL DVD, even one with DTS.

And yes, I do own a PAL edition of The Terminator (the R4 Australian release), and the speedup of the opening bah-bum-ba-bum-ba-bum theme music is very noticeable to anyone who has ever seen the movie before.

Reservoir

So you do not own the DVD the original poster is talking about.

My point is, will you be talking about PAL when HDDVD arrives? And Blu-Ray? And the format after that? And the format after that? And when we can get 100 movies on a chip the size of a dime?

I know George W. Bush is a dangerous monster. I've always known it but that doesn't mean that would be my only answer about him if I were talking politics.

NTSC has problems and I would never mention those problems. We have to live with what we have.

Either answer the original poster's question or post somewhere else (constantly talking about PAL on an international forum is equal to trolling).

You're not helping anyone. You need to move on.

pro-bassoonist

Guys:

You really need to calm down a bit as we do not want to turn this into yet another thread where people flame each other for no reason (or an obvious one...in their opinion). Otherwise this will simply force the mods to close yet another thread where PAL vs NTSC was not the main issue. I think that it should be obvious to anyone that if you do not have a concrete information relating to the original poster's question you should not try to re-direct the thread to where you feel qualified to chime in...otherwise people would argue just for the sake of...arguing.

I don't want to sound like the forum's snob-philosopher...but past history indicates that PAL vs NTSC "what's the better system" threads do not bode well with the mods.

Ciao,
Pro-B

DrGerbil

And I happen to appreciate your snob-philosophy!

Josh Z

Reservoir, I would ask that you re-read my last post. And after that, read it again. Then, when you're done, read it a third time. If, by then, you don't understand the point that I'm making, well then that's nobody's fault but your own. I feel quite confident that I made myself perfectly clear, if you would just take the time to pay attention to the actual words I used.

There are many good PAL DVDs. There are many good PAL DVDs that have good soundtracks despite the 4% speedup. I have no doubt that the Terminator PAL DTS soundtrack indeed sounds better than the Terminator PAL Dolby Digital soundtrack. However, if the original poster is looking for the best-sounding edition of The Terminator, PAL is not, and cannot be, the best available option. Any PAL DVD, whether DD or DTS, will be sped up 4%, and this absolutely does affect the audio. It always does. In every case. No exceptions. Ever.

The original poster asked specifically about the quality of the R2 DTS soundtrack. I responded with a relevant and on-topic answer to remind him that the disc is PAL and PAL is always sped up. That's really as far as this needs to go. Why you should choose to take that as a personal insult to yourself, I have no idea.

js1

would pal be sped up on a pal system?

Josh Z

Yes, the speedup occurs during the conversion of 24fps film to 25fps PAL video, not during any conversion from PAL to NTSC. PAL discs of theatrical movies are always sped up. Always.

The only instances where PAL would not be sped up are productions originally shot on PAL video or those shot on film at the increased rate of 25fps (a small minority of European TV productions).

BuckNaked2k

Recently ordered this from Amazon.jp. Does anyone know why they don't release R1 versions of these? I mean, it's not like it won't sell.

bozman

Because after years of neglect over here in R2 land, they've finally decided to give us something good

AOD

Like Josh said, the speedup is not the fault of the PAL system, it has to do with the actual conversion. The film was made NTSC and needs to be converted to a different frame rate. He was simply letting the OP know in case he didn't so he could make an informed choice. FACT: there will be a 4% speed up. You cannot get around that. Period, and that's no nonsense.

Josh Z

I think you may be a little confused as well. NTSC and PAL are video standards. The movie was shot on 24fps film. All film transferred to NTSC retains its original running speed, but film transferred to PAL is sped up to 25fps.

So, yes, it is a fault of the "conversion" of film to PAL video, but it's also the fault of PAL video for needing the film to be sped up in the first place.

What some people mistakenly assume is that the speedup is the result of a conversion from PAL video to NTSC video, and that the movie will run at the correct speed on a native PAL display. That is not correct. PAL itself runs faster than 35mm film, and any 24fps film transferred to PAL video will be sped up.

AOD

That is what I am trying to say and get at, guess my DVDtalk conversion came out wrong.

Gordon McMurphy

The new R2 2-disc indeed looks excellent. However, it lacks the original mono soundtrack, unlike the MGM R1 edition. The sound effects have been replaced thoughout the film with modern digital foley effects to the detriment of my enjoyment of a film that has enthralled my since 1987, aged 7. Not good enough, says I. I own the R1, but I do intend to acquire the R2 2-disc in the near future, if it is on sale.

Jaws and Vertigo finally had their mono tracks encoded to superior editions this year.

How does the picture quality of the new UK 2-disc compare to the R1?


Cheers.

Fincher Fan

Just to be fair, Josh, you should clarify how NTSC retains the running time considering it's running at a higher frame rate of 29.97fps.

For me personally, I hate the jerky pans resulting from the 3:2 pulldown and prefer the extra 20% resolution I get on my PAL discs. However, both systems are flawed as I have also occasionally noticed the increased pitch from the 4% speedup but don't find it nearly anywhere as intolerable as the juddering. I guess it depends on the individual's preference for flawed video or flawed audio.

Bring on HD, I say!

Josh Z

Are you watching on a native NTSC display or a PAL display that claims to be compatible with NTSC? I'd guess the latter if you can see the extra PAL resolution. The "juddery" pans are a common complaint of people watching NTSC on PAL TVs, but on real NTSC TVs panning movements are pretty smooth.

I agree that both formats are flawed. Each has its strengths and weaknesses. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like HD will solve anything, since both the US and Europe will be retaining their 60hz and 50hz standards even at the higher resolutions.