toddly6666

I haven't been too impressed with Tsui Hark's movie career. Im definitely not a fan of his movies - especially the ones of his that are considered respectable classics such as:
1. PEKING OPERA BLUES was boring and overrated.
2. The ONCE UPON A TIME IN CHINA movies have good action, but are poorly edited, have bad story/filler, and all seem dated now.
3. Although he didn't direct it, NEW DRAGON INN was an awful mess.
4. I wasn't too impressed with THE BLADE from what I could make out from the awful video quality of the VHS tape and whatever version they used to play on tv.
5. TIME AND TIDE was professionally done and seemed great in comparison to his previous awful amateurish Hollywood movies, but it's just another forgettable action movie.

I've only really liked three of his movies - ZU WARRIORS, LEGEND OF ZU, and now SEVEN SWORDS.

SEVEN SWORDS is a really good movie surprisingly! It's an extremely entertaining movie with awesome action scenes! I could have sworn that critics were complaining that the action scenes were quick cut and couldn't see anything a la recent MTV/Hollywood action filming. No way! The action scenes are amazing. I don't think I've seen such creative action scenes since the old Hong Kong movies! The action scenes are excellent in HERO and HOUSE OF FLYING DAGGERS, but that's because they are well-filmed and you care about the characters in those movies. In SEVEN SWORDS, the action scenes are just extremely creative. I have no idea where they came up with them. It's genius - who is responsible for them? Is it Tsui Hark, Lau Kar-Leung, Donnie Yen, or the two action choreographers of the film? I have a feeling it's all of their combined input. Because the choreography is ten times more creative than what I've seen in the recent action choreographed films of Wu Ping Yeun, Cory Yeun, and Tony Ching Siu-Tung. The fight scenes and weaponry is off the wall here! It's crazy shit! I remember loving that one scene in DOUBLE TEAM where Van Damme walks into a room and some bearded old dude is just sitting, but all of a sudden just starts bouncing around the room. That's how the action scenes in SEVEN SWORDS felt - just insane but in a believable way. The wire work was excellent too - all smooth and nothing awkward. SEVEN SWORDS proves that there is some crazy science to action choreography. I don't know how they filmed it, but they did and it works!

The story is good. It's not touching or involving as in CROUTCHING TIGER, HERO, or HOUSE OF FLYING DAGGERS, but it's still good. SEVEN SWORDS is like a good western - 7 cowboys protecting the local town from bad guys. It's not an emotional movie. A movie doesn't have to be touching and emotional to be good, it's just that it would be nice to connect with the characters. It's just a good epic action adventure film. The good news is that SEVEN SWORDS might be an emotional movie when the 4-hour version gets released on DVD. It's obvious from this 2 and a half hour version that the movie was trimmed. It was trimmed in a decent way, but i'm going to buy the 4-hour DVD version, because I have a feeling the extra scenes will help this movie. I'm not the type of person to rush out and buy Extended DVD versions (a la Gladiator since that movie doesn't really need more scenes, it's great as is), but I really hope the SEVEN SWORDS will be more emotional when watching the 4-hour version. Eventhough one cannot connect with any of the characters in this movie due to the lack of emotion, the characters in this movie have some depth and are all interesting. I don't remember the last time i've seen an Asian film in which all of the bad guys are all bad and not goofy. The evil General is great, sort of reminding me of Takeshi Beat Kitano. The Evil side-kick Chick is seriously scary. And the whole villian army characters are scary too, sort of like in a non-goofy Mad Max way. They aren't just a bunch of silly stupid goons. They are viscious and bad-ass.

This feels like Tsui Hark's personal and intimate movie. Everything is well-balanced in this movie. He could have gone all out and focused just on the swords or just the action scenes, but everything is nicely even and balanced and has a good pace. He uses a lot of scenery - from snowy mountains, to fields, to caves - and I liked how he didn't have to make a big deal out of each scenery. He could have done a whole 20 minute action scene of getting one of those swords out of the mountain, but it was like 30 seconds, which was cool. Some directors like to take full advantage of any cool scenery they find and film the heck out of it, but not in SEVEN SWORDS.

SEVEN SWORDS is really good. The trimming is obvious and may throw people off, but it sort of makes it an arty action film. Im not going to be surprised if the 4-hour version is worse and if it doesn't help more character development and more emotion. I'm pretty satisfied with this version. Although, i'm still looking foward to this 4-hour version.

The 2-disk DVD version of SEVEN SWORDS is selling for about 15 bucks at your local Chinatown. The DVD is All-Region NTSC. The anamorphic video quality is beautiful and DD 5.1 sounds very nice. The English subtitles are good, with a spelling/grammer mistake or two. And the extras on the 2 disk are pretty good. There is a Donnie Yen Interview, a ceremony feature, a bunch of in-depth making of features, and two trailers. All are surprisingly English subtitled except for the cememony feature.

Good job Tsui Hark - it's about time you made a well-balanced entertaining film! You have redeemed yourself after making the masterpiece Black Mask 2!


MOVIE: 8.5 (if the extended version will have character more depth/emotion and smoother scene transition, this movie will be a 9.5 masterpiece. I'm hoping!!)

DVD VIDEO: 9

DVD AUDIO: 9

EXTRAS: 8

OVERALL: 8.5




My DVD Collection: http://www.intervocative.com/dvdcoll...spx/toddly6666

buckee1

Anyone have this up for pre-order yet?

RaMMaR

YesAsia has it for $16.49.

yeek

I hope he releases the uncut version. I saw this in the theater over the summer in taiwan and I thought it was terrible. The cuts are so obvious and makes the story have no flow at all...one minute they are here, the next they are there. At the same time, there is no character development at all. Who are the swordsmen? Where did they come from? What is their background? Basically, I didn't give a care what happened to any of them. It was just people going from point A to point B while doing action A and action B. The supposed 4 hour version has to be better. It can't be any worse so I hope Hark has enough support and releases it.

splattii

I picked up the Limited Special Edition Digipack thing on the weekend. The set is great for the cost. Digipack 2 disc set. Post cards and all. To be honest, I have to agree with yeek. If it wasn't for the fact I had known about the cuts before seeing it, I probobly wouldn't have had such a good expereince. I enjoyed 7 Swords for the most part, but I had to turn my brain off so I could get passed some of the story. Still, this was the most enjoyable Hark film for me of the ones I've seen. I'm not exactly a fan of his...

Josh Z

What you've just described sounds like every Tsui Hark movie. I doubt this is the result of any forced "cuts". A longer version of the movie would likely just be more of the same.

toddly6666

Josh Z, that's one of the main reasons why I liked the movie as it was, because I know that Tsui Hark's films suck most the time and all have no depth. I watched this movie thinking about all the other films I didn't like of his, so I enjoyed it since I have low expectations of him. I hope we are wrong, but there surely is no reason to believe that the 4-hour cut will be some Yimou Zhang-type movie full of depth and emotion. It could just be a long drag of a movie.

What pleases me is that Hong Kong/China's post-Croutching Tiger epic blockbuster films have all been pretty good in comparison to the crap that was released before 2000. All the huge blockbusters have been great - Croutching Tiger, Shaolin Soccer, Hero, Infernal Affairs, House of Flying Daggers, Kung Fu Hustle, Seven Swords, and the upcoming S.P.L. That track rate is as good as Hollywood now - at least one epic blockbuster movie per year that lives up to the hype and is a pretty good movie.

dmpre99

so how long is the uncut version supposed to be and where i can get a hold of it?

yeek

The uncut version is rumored to be clocked at about 4 hours...Hark had to do some major editing in order for it to be movie theater friendly...right now I heard there is no plan on releasing the full length version...I think it mainly depends on how the theatrical version is received and if there is enough support and interest in the movie as is to warrant a future unedited release...

Like splattii said, if you go into the movie knowing there are cuts, you'll probably enjoy it for what it is...I also knew when I watched it that the movie was heavily cut, so I already expected the movie to be more action oriented and less about plot and character development...

Best thing to do is watch it at least once...I have no doubt Tsui really tried to put a strong effort into Seven Swords...believe me, I wanted this movie to be so awesome and was looking forward to it with great anticipation...yes, I was let down, but still have hope for another release...I'm just glad he decided to make this kind of movie rather than his few other recent releases....

yeek

I just wanted a little more consistency...not necessarily more substance. For example, what I didn't like was that one minute the two villagers are searching for the swordsmen clan on top of a mountain and the next scene shows them talking to them as if they've been there for days...and you just know there was a major cut right there...of how they got up there and their first encounter with the clan...I realized he had to cut transition stuff like that out for time, but it really sucks while watching a movie....

pro-bassoonist

I quick note:

It looks like the DVD is indeed available in the Chicago area as well. I am usually skeptical when it comes to early releases but took a chance with this film primarily due to the fact that there was some buzz over at Twitch. So, here are my quick comments on both the artistic quality of the film (!!) and the video presentation.

1.
I hate to spoil the passionate review Toddly has provided but I hardly see anything in this film that would pleasantly surprise those that have seen Hark's 2001 Zu Warriors (sans the narrative of course). The visuals, camera work, and (sadly) very poor cutting are indeed “visible”….meaning the bad comes with the good (read below). For those fascinated with Hark's style I don't think that it will really matter that much...but for those entering the film with high expectations...beware!!...you are in for some major/minor disappointments. What worked for me (partially)-visuals (opening scenes are quite good). What did not work for me (just about anything else...as mentioned above there is no story good enough to provide for a serious plot). So, take it as it is. Hardly an above average film!!

2.
DVD presentation:

Yes, a rather attractive package (cards, case, etc). Quite a few problems with the video presentation however. Here are a few things to look for- very distracting macro-blocking. In addition, some light shimmering (look upper right corner) when you watch the DVD via digital projector. Toddly was very kind to point out the fact that the English subs were not perfect...sadly it is much more than that, there are some serious grammatical mistakes. For some this may not be an issue for me it is. Edge enhancement is also a problem. I don't have the proper equipment to take some screen caps but those with a more sensitive eye (and equipment) are in for some substantial disappointment. Last but not least something that I noticed yet again (also visible on the Atomik Circus DVD)-heavily filtered image quality. I am not quite so sure if this has anything to do with the fact that those are both Asian discs (though one of them is Thai and this one is not)...but it is there. Perhaps someone else that owns an extensive catalog of Asian films can comment on the issue.

I hardly chime in when Asian discs/films are discussed but this is a film that certainly had some momentum going (at least on other boards around the net). To sum it all up...a mere average DVD presentation and a film. Though I am sure if you like Hark’s style you will most certainly disregard my comments


Ciao,
Pro-B

toddly6666

Hey PRO-BASS, Im just curious, what kind of HDTV do you have? I watch my stuff on a Sony 34 inch XBR HDTV...I guess if I had a huge tv or projector, I would be more picky with video quality issues....

pro-bassoonist

Toddly:

This is what I have been using for about 4 months now....
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...onics&v=glance

But I think that will be replacing it very soon. There are some overheating issues with this one...I might get back to actually owning a TV set.
Let me ask you a quick question....what player do you have (region-free) and how does it handle your Sony?

(you could email me directly so we could stay on topic with this thread)

Ciao,
Pro-B

Josh Z

Pro-B, there are some very nice 720p DLP projectors coming out later this year for around $3k. Is that outside of your price range? Email me off list if you want to discuss.

evophile

Anyone know which language is the original? I'm noticed people being dubbed no mateer which one I choose, so I know I can't escape it, but I was just wondering if anyone knew which it was intended for. Thanks!

manicsounds

Mandarin Chinese is the original language

toddly6666

HEY PRO-BASS,
Your DVD talk teammate didn't see much fault in the DVD video/audio quality in his review too. You too picky, man!

splattii

The packaging on the Limited Special (the brown colored one with the horses on it) actually has wrong information on the back. The english information is backwards. The mandarin I beleive is listed as track #1 when it's actually #2. I can't see it because it's not in front of me, but basically whatever it says it's actually the opposite. The chinese text on the back is accurate and contradicts the english.

flixtime

toddly6666, I appreciate your taking the time to not only start this discussion but to do so in such an in-depth manner. I'm not a big A/V guy, so I just wanted to chime in with my take on the film.

I'm a big fan of these - let's go with a broad definition and call them "period adventure films". I've pretty much seen all the ones to come out of China/HK/Japan/S. Korea/Thailand over the last few years and as such I was really looking forward to this latest entry. Sad to say this was a major let down and I might rank it at the bottom of the list that would include: Twilight Samurai, The Hidden Blade, Zatoichi, When the Last Sword is Drawn, Azumi, Musa, The Legend of the Evil Lake, Warriors of Heaven and Earth, Hero, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, House of Flying Daggers, Bang Rajan, etc. Heck, it wasn't even as good as virtually any of the old Shaw Bros. films that I've been hooked on lately.

I'll place a lot of the blame for the failure of this film with the Director. As a viewer, I felt frustrated during many scenes as the camera just seemed too close on almost everything. The action scenes were a trainwreck from beginning to end. There were plagued by the quick-cutting, too-close, incoherent style that I despise and is sadly in vogue especially here in the U.S. For these wuxia films to succeed you as a viewer have to believe in the physics of what you see on screen. In movies like Crouching Tiger, etc., things are done so well that you never question the characters' ability to fly around and walk on tree limbs. Unfortunately, in "Seven Swords" the wirework is very, very obvious, the special effects are sub-par, and everything else about the action is presented in an up-close blur. The end fight scene did absolutely nothing for me as I was too aware it was all wires and effects. It seemed like a lot of the time during the mass fight scenes I wasn't really sure which characters were doing what.

The too close camerawork wasn't exclusive to only the action scenes as it plagued dialogue scenes and the like. Lots of times, characters are talking but you don't know who is saying what because the camera isn't showing us what we need to see. There is one scene where the Director opens it up by closing in on a conversation from behind. You are looking at two characters sitting and talking but you don't know which two until it pans around later to show you. This might be okay if the viewer had been made to feel comfortable or easily identify the characters but at this point relatively well in to the film the characters are still not entirely clearly drawn out. Compare this to a film like "The Magnificent Seven" where every character is clearly drawn and given depth early on in the film.

What else........okay so you have 2 and 1/2 hours to give us another spin on the "Seven Samurai" and yet when all is said and done we hardly know a thing about the seven swordspersons or their weapons. The title is "Seven Swords" isn't it? Did I care one bit about any of the protagonists - not in the least. Was I even presented any layered insight into their characters - no I wasn't. Of all the incarnations I've ever seen of the "Seven Samurai" story, this film did one of the poorest jobs in defining the characters and having us identify with them.

I'm not done yet. The acting was mediocre across the board with hardly any performance worthy of being singled out for praise. The dialogue was run-of-the-mill and the story was both lacking and uneven. The film moved along at a decent enough pace but the whole flow of things structurally just seemed kind of off. By the last quarter of the film I was closer to waiting for it to end than being caught up in the proceedings.

You know what the movie felt like to me, like something out of late 1980's/early 90's Hong Kong which is all well and good except this is the year 2005. I feel a number of the films from that era, while important as forerunners to what we see today, are dated when viewing them in present day. "Seven Swords" also felt in some ways spawned from 1980's Hollywood sword and sorcery films (Conan, Beastmaster, etc.) - but not nearly as good as those mentioned. "Seven Swords" is more equal to the mediocrity of "The Scorpion King" in my book (perhaps even not as good). I mentioned "Seven Swords" being closer to sword and sorcery films because the villains in this film are more like the villains in those films. I never really felt they - the villains - inspired any formidable sense of real dread, but were closer instead to being over-the-top, scenery chewing, over-costumed, Mad Max-surplus, cartoon buffoons. All said and done, "Seven Swords" is basically a middlin' B-movie glammed up for notice because it has a name director and some glossy cinematography. Yes, some of the cinematography was nice but I've seen enough now that I am getting reluctant to comfortably recommend a film just because it has some pretty scenes. Frankly speaking, it seems more and more that any idiot can shoot scenes like that. Go to a fabric store, buy some pretty red (or blue, yellow, green, etc.) cloth and wave it around in the desert. Or maybe some nice white satin catching the breeze in front of some nice green trees. Or point your camera and capture a sunset or a waterfall....you get the point.

The longer cut might address my concern over character development but if I were a betting man I don't think a longer cut holds anything that can redeem this film. Tsui Hark really dropped the ball with the wirework, effects, noticeably sped-up fight scenes, too close/improperly framed camerawork for action and non-action scenes, and poor presenation of the characters & story in general, etc., etc. The music did little to engage me, and in general the film never truly grabbed and made me forget that I was just sitting there and watching a film (I kind of came to the realization that this film was on the road to nowhere about a third of the way in). "Seven Swords" was without both soul and emotion. I think ratings-wise that the best this film was going to get at the high point of things (earlier on) was a lukewarm 6/10 from me but seeing the talent involved, where it ended up, how I feel about it while writing this, and how unenthusiastic I would be about watching it again I wouldn't put up much of a fight if someone called it a 4/10.

eujin

Count me as another disappointed viewer of SS. I must say, I don't think I'll bother with another Tsui Hark movie again. His earlier stuff is, IMHO, much better--especially Once Upon a Time in China. His obsession with dragging elements of fantasy into his movies of the last few years has been really annoying. Sorry, but both Zu movies and SS just make no sense to me. And was any one else driven crazy by the videogame-like soundtrack?!? I couldn't wait for this one to be over.

Tutut

Donnie Yen and Kim So-yeon speak korean in the movie, are they dubbed in the DVD ?

toddly6666

Here's a link to the Korean DVD release of SEVEN SWORDS, which is labeled as UNCUT at YESASIA. It's one minute shorter than the HK version. Is this the same or the director's cut of this movie? Maybe it's one minute shorter because they removed Michael Wong's scene!!

http://us.yesasia.com/en/PrdDept.asp...ection-videos/

hongkongdvd

Speaking of Michael Wong, does anyone know why the Michael Wong finding some ancient powerful sword scene was in the movie?

I was expecting Michael Wong to the end baddie with the sword fighting the Seven Swords. That would be killer!!!

Giles

watched this yesterday while I was not feeling well, the action scenes perked me up but during the slow moments - zzzzzzzz.

not Tsui Hark's best movie IMO.

question how can the Toronto International Film Festival programme say this is a 2005 film, when the copyright date of the film is 2003?

tinlunlau

it is a 2005 film. it wasn't released in China until early August 2005. it must have been in production since 2003. either that or it is a typo error.