Richard Malloy

Thanks, run1! I'm dying to see this movie, but I think I'll await a better DVD release.

BusterK

Thanks, I didn't catch that. Does anyone know how it was shown on TV? I'm surprised it uses a different ratio than the other releases.

Run1, thanks for the screen grabs. If I get a chance to look at the Spanish release, I will let you know what I find.

BusterK

Okay, the Spanish DVD has English subtitles and they are official: http://img93.echo.cx/img93/1850/subtitulos6qs.jpg

Unfortunately it is 4:3, but at least it's not chopped off. Here are a couple of samples:
http://img93.echo.cx/img93/1094/torino4kv.jpg
http://img93.echo.cx/img93/7139/casa2hj.jpg

pro-bassoonist

If this is indeed the case then I need to take my words back and apologize about my comments above. This is highly unusual that Spanish release of a non-Spanish production would offer English subs. Are these captures you took?

Pro-B

BusterK

Yes, I took these captures, but I don't think you need to apologize. There is nothing written on the case about the subtitles and DVDGO was the only store that said that the DVDs had English subtitles.

Oh, if you're interested, the main image of the front and back covers are the photos from the Spanish posters for each part, respectively: http://www.arabafilms.com/distribuci...adramatica.htm . Both photos appear on each disc (both of which are identical in appearance!).

Also I noticed that the Italian subtitles (for non-Italian parts) are burned-in.

BernardDB

Hi!

New on this board. I saw the film in a theater and I have the French and Italian DVDs. I am not an expert on these things (such as aspect ratios), but I am curious. Sorry if I state the obvious.
On the French DVD, I get the same picture aspect as the one other users have captured.
The cover says:

DVD9 - PAL - Couleur
Format 1.77
Ecran 16/9 compatible 4/3

I suppose they mean the ratio is 16:9, but you can see it on a 4:3 screen, with letter box mode. (That's what I get!)

Regarding the originally intended aspect, I found some information (in French) in "la brochure francese", to be downloaded here: http://www.lamegliogioventu.com/nos%...uresannees.htm

Roberto Forza, director of photography, says that the director's initial intention was to make "cinema for television". Giordana first intended to use 35mm film. But Forza talked Giordana into going for Super 16, on the grounds that the quality has become very good and the overall equipment is much lighter.

When everything was finished, broadcast of the TV series was first postponed. In an interview to the International Herald Tribune 12/12/03, Giordana explains the following:
The crew was told by Rai, which co-produced the film, that the series was feared too refined for the audience at a time when the channel's audience was dwindling.
Then the film went to Cannes and, following the success, Rai released it in cinemas, in two parts (and later on TV in a 4-instalments series).

Film negative format : 16 mm
Printed film format: 35 mm
Aspect ratio: 1.78
Camera: ARRI 16 SrIII
Lenses: Zeiss T1.3 S16

From the above, my guess is that Giordana and Forza shooted with a 1.66 - 1.78 ratio in mind:
1.66 is the European widescreen standard;
1.78 is 16:9, a ratio for TV screens that is becoming increasingly popular in Europe.
And 1.78 is the ratio on the DVD!

Maybe the framing was designed so that the film could also be broadcast in a 1.33 ratio, should Rai insist on a full-screen (traditional 4:3) TV format. For full screen TV, some of the sides would have to be cut off (the infamous pan & scan).


But it's only a guess.
Conversely, one could make the point that this film was made for TV, thus with a 1.33 ratio on film (? does it make sense, from a technical point of view?), and transferring to 35mm for theaters involved discarding some of the upper and/or lower part of the picture!
And maybe the shooting was done with that in mind, the cameraman knowing that two layers, bottom and uppermost, are just there to fully fill a TV screen. Then we could have a full 4:3 screen DVD.
A bit far-fetched, IMO!

Bernard

PS: I should receive the Spanish DVD soon, for a friend. If you have questions...

pro-bassoonist

Welcome to the forum Bernard!!

With all that has been said about this film (including my research) I believe that the film is correctly presented on the Italian/French dvds. The intended aspect ratio is indeed 1.78:1. If anyone, an Italian perhaps, is ready to prove me wrong, I am willing to listen. Until then anything different in terms of OAR than the above mentioned 1.78:1 I will consider as a "hack".

On a side note....16:9 means anamorphically enhanced image...it is not a ratio indicator. In fact, your French made DVDs are describing it perfectly....16/9 compatible 4/3...meaning...an enhanced image viewable on a standard (not for long) TV set. 16/9 in itself is not a ratio.

Again, welcome to the forum!!!

Ciao,
Pro-B

ScreachingWeasel

"On a side note....16:9 means anamorphically enhanced image...it is not a ratio indicator. In fact, your French made DVDs are describing it perfectly....16/9 compatible 4/3...meaning...an enhanced image viewable on a standard (not for long) TV set. 16/9 in itself is not a ratio."


I always thought it was. Like 1:33 is equal to 4/3. I was under the impression 16/9 was something like 1:78, or 1:85. I know it's used pretty much exclusively to indicate something is anamorphically enhanced, but I thought maybe incorrectly that a widescreen tv was a 16/9 size. Height vs width and what not.

BernardDB

Thanks for your response and kind welcome, Pro-bassoonist.

I think I get it: "16:9 anamorphic enhanced" refers to the standard used for "squeezing" more image data, so that the resolution on the screen, upon decoding, is improved.
One of the beauty of that 16:9 compatible 4:3 anamorphosis:
On a widescreen that can handle the image shape, the signal will just be de-anamorphosed;
on a more square screen, the DVD player will scale down somewhat the image data and add letterboxing, but with a good monitor, you still keep some of the gain in resolution.

The process could be applied to images with various ratios, so not just 1.78:1

Digging a bit further the topic, I found it can be very complicated!

Bernard

pro-bassoonist

As a more generic explanation...that should be it!!

Pro-B

pro-bassoonist

I. If 1.33:1 equals 4/3 (whatever that might describe) then how would you categorize 1.37:1? What does this ratio equal

2. 16/9 is not part of the standard ratios it has a completely different meaning....see the post above.

Regards,
Pro-B

Josh Z

16:9 = 1.78:1. The math will attest to this. Whether you refer to it as 16:9 or 1.78:1 is a matter of semantics. Just don't confuse 16:9 with 1.85:1, because mathematically they are different.

The term "16:9" is often used to refer to anamorphic enhancement, but that is confusing as well.

Dane

From what I know these are versions that has been released.

Hong Kong - Region 3
Italy - Region 2
Spain - Region 2
French - Region 2

Which version is the best to get image & sound wise + English subtitles?

cine

I believe only the R2 Spain and R3 have English subs.

BernardDB

I gleaned the following from the film-dedicated board on IMDb:
“The Dutch version, they told me, has no English subs.”
“The Region 3 (Asia) has both Chinese and English subtitles.”
“Spanish: it's in Italian (and Spanish), with Spanish, Italian and English subtitles.”
“I bought the DVD at a Spanish FNAC and it actually has the English subtitles, but "hidden", that means you have to select them with the "subtitle" button of your DVD player's remote control.” [On their site, fnac.es do not advertise the presence of English subs.]

The film is distributed in Japan, so I guess one should expect a DVD with Japanese subtitles at some point in time.
Same with German, as it is distributed in Germany, Austria and Switzerland.

Dazza

Recently I've also seen another release in Belgian stores - a 2-part release, with each disc at a budget price. Audio/sub options are the same as for the French 3-disc edition (Fr/It audio, Fr subs).

Part 1: http://www.dvdzone2.com/dvd/detail.asp?id=140566

Part 2: http://www.dvdzone2.com/dvd/detail.asp?id=140564

Dazza.

BernardDB

Clever! Part I at 9.99 € ($ 12) You bite, then you're desperate to get part II.

BernardDB

In the English subtitles, I noticed 2 instances where the Italian "lei" (that is 'she') has been translated by 'he'. Fortunately the context makes it obvious to correct.
One instance is when Luigi and Matteo and talking about Matteo's mother.

BusterK

Yeah, that and the "She passed Anatomy" for the "E' passato l'esame di anatomia" joke were the only translation problems that I remember. I watched the DVDs with viewers who had never seen the movie before and they were able to figure out the true translation from the context.

On your Spanish DVD are the subtitles hidden or are they available from the subtitle menu?

Is there any difference between the Italian and French DVDs? Are the extras any good? The Spanish release is good, but it's such a great movie that I might get the Italian or French release if no other versions are made.

Dazza

The 3rd disc on the French set is quite good - it lasts for over 100 mins, and includes interviews with the director, producer & co-writer, a making-of, a Carati "family tree" (quite interesting) plus a bunch of trailers for other Ocean DVD films, and one or other two bits and pieces.

The "making of" and co-writer intervew are in Italian with French subs, director and producer interviews are in French.

Dazza.

BusterK

From what I can find, it appears that the French 3 DVD release has the most extras, but to be honest, I think I would be just as happy with the extras on the Italian release. Are both releases about the same quality? Is there much difference between the two interviews with the director?

The Italian release has:
Dietro le quinte
Intervista a Jasmine Trinca
Intervista a Marco Tullio Giordana
Note biografiche cast e regia

The French release has:
Le Making Of (11 min en vost)
L'interview de Mario Tullio Giordana, réalisateur (28 min)
L'interview d'Angelo Barbagallo, producteur (15 min)
L'interview de Stefano Rulli, scénariste (9 min)
Epoques : un clip par décennie (8 min)
La bio-filmographie du réalisateur, du producteur, des scénaristes et des 11 comédiens principaux
La bande-annonce
L'arbre généalogique de la famille Carati
Les bandes-annonces du catalogue Océan

cine

Any news of a R2 UK or R1 in the work?

Dane

Got the opportunity to buy this cheap since I won a couple of AU$20.95 voucher during a CDWOW Promotion 2 weeks ago.

Anyhow, I bought Part 1, and I find it to be just excellent image wise - considering this is a 16mm to 35mm transfer. The DTS-ES is as always great, but not as that usefull since it´s a dialouge heavy flick. The packaging is very nice with no Asian writing whatsoever. A very informative booklet in english is supplied a s well. Ratio wise it only states 16:9, which could be anything really.

Personally, I´m very happy with Part 1 Region 3 purchase, and will be ordering Part 2 shortly from CDWOW.

Still, I have no clue when this will be out on R2UK or R1.

cine

CDWow's price for these titles seems to have gone up a bit.

BusterK

Is there any PAL->NTSC ghosting?