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PAL speed up question?

Old 04-05-04, 04:25 AM
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PAL speed up question?

I realize when playing PAL dvds it runs too fast, 4% i think. It is noticeable but not the end of the world. DO any region free players correct this? is there any way to fix it?

Last edited by shaggy; 04-06-04 at 02:08 AM.
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Old 04-05-04, 11:52 AM
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NO player corrects this effect. Sorry.

There are ways to fix it, but they are very complicated and very expensive.

I think the only movies in recent years that have no pal speedup are the european versions of the LOTR movies...
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Old 04-05-04, 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by BelaFarinRod
I think the only movies in recent years that have no pal speedup are the european versions of the LOTR movies...
...Huh...?...

...where did you get this tidbit of truly and absolutely astounding information...?... and how did "they" do that I wonder...?... by subtracting one frame per second of film...?... or...?...

...the mind boggles...

. . . . . .
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Old 04-05-04, 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by Hendrik
...Huh...?...

...where did you get this tidbit of truly and absolutely astounding information...?... and how did "they" do that I wonder...?... by subtracting one frame per second of film...?... or...?...

...the mind boggles...

. . . . . .
Some PAL DVDs are pitch-corrected and I believe the LOTR films had this done so they'd sound identical to their NTSC counterparts.
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Old 04-05-04, 01:53 PM
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If you use an HTPC, you can use WinDVDs Truespeed feature to slow down PAL discs ... you lose the ability to output digital audio, though.
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Old 04-05-04, 02:17 PM
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"Some PAL DVDs are pitch-corrected and I believe the LOTR films had this done so they'd sound identical to their NTSC counterparts."

...you believe... and you may well be right (personally and quite frankly, I sincerely and very much doubt it, but hey! what do I know!?!)... and, anyway, Europeans, by and large, wouldn't know the difference if it tickled their gonads - unless they also had the R1 versions on hand for comparison - and how many do you think there are who would have "double-dipped" just to find out if... and yaddayadda...

...which brings up the question: why bother at all to "pitch-correct" ? ...

...remember: anywhere in Europe (except the UK and Ireland) you'd have to "pitch-correct" the dubbed-into-French version for the French, the dubbed-into-German version for the Germans, the dubbed-into-Italian version for the Italians, the dubbed-into-Spanish version for the Spaniards - not to mention the dubbed-into-Catalan version for those Spaniards who speak (only, or mostly) Catalan... you see to what (impossible?) lengths "they" would have to go - and why I am so doubtful that they did...

but, anyway, I was under the (possibly, probably erroneous) impression that shaggy meant the runtime of the movie(s)... color me mistaken...

. . . . . .

Last edited by Hendrik; 04-05-04 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 04-05-04, 02:47 PM
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Well...in the defense of the original poster (who i'm assuming is from america)...

If he's watching american movies...then I believe it makes a difference. Otherwise, not so much.

Personally, I only watch american movies so I want all my DVD's to be in NTSC unless I don't have a choice because I'm going to hear the difference in the American actors voices and musically as well.

However, if I were watching movies from other countries, I highly doubt it would matter. I just don't know how those actors from those countries deal with their voices being sped up
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Old 04-05-04, 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by digitalfreaknyc
...I only watch american movies so I want all my DVD's to be in NTSC unless I don't have a choice because I'm going to hear the difference in the American actors voices and musically as well.
...perhaps I should explain that I used to have (UK) PAL LDs of The Bandwagon and On The Town - and didn't/couldn't hear a whit of difference in the (singing) voices of Fred Astaire, respectively Frank Sinatra and/or Gene Kelly, compared to NTSC LDs in my 'collection' of, say, The Ziegfeld Follies or The Pirate...

...color me happily tin-eared (being that way certainly widens my choice of movies to watch, including French, German, Italian, Spanish, Danish, Dutch, and - yes! - English, Scottish and Irish films...!...)...

. . . . . .
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Old 04-05-04, 03:18 PM
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I notice PAL speedup in English language films, especially those with actors whose voices I'm familiar with, but I have no problems listening to foreign language PAL discs.
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Old 04-05-04, 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by digitalfreaknyc

Personally, I only watch american movies so I want all my DVD's to be in NTSC unless I don't have a choice because I'm going to hear the difference in the American actors voices and musically as well.
I recall that you were interested in Leon-The Professional. CLEARLY not an US film!! In fact what is an American film?? Is the Lord of the Rings Trilogy something you consider All-American?? Yes, made with a lot of American money......So, perhaps a better term would be "Anglo-speaking productions"!!

As to watching ONLY US films Craig....that is surely not THE standard in the world of cinema...there are worthy films in every country. But limiting yourself is your choice....last but not least PAL is indeed not an issue when one watches a foreign film. With Anglo films ...it could be an issue only when high pitch resonance or voice-obertones are being present. Mid to low end voice obertones ARE NOT an issue.

(this statement from a professional with a perfect pitch).

Cheers,
Pro-B
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Old 04-05-04, 04:50 PM
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LOTR: FOTR wasn't pitch corrected but the EE version was.

I've got quite a few Euro DVDs that are pitch corrected. Not a large percentage. Hopefully this is a new trend.
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Old 04-05-04, 08:04 PM
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Originally posted by pro-bassoonist
I recall that you were interested in Leon-The Professional. CLEARLY not an US film!! In fact what is an American film?? Is the Lord of the Rings Trilogy something you consider All-American?? Yes, made with a lot of American money......So, perhaps a better term would be "Anglo-speaking productions"!!

As to watching ONLY US films Craig....that is surely not THE standard in the world of cinema...there are worthy films in every country. But limiting yourself is your choice....last but not least PAL is indeed not an issue when one watches a foreign film. With Anglo films ...it could be an issue only when high pitch resonance or voice-obertones are being present. Mid to low end voice obertones ARE NOT an issue.

(this statement from a professional with a perfect pitch).

Cheers,
Pro-B
You can state all you want. Yes, I loved Leon. I consider it an American film because it was cast primarily with american actors and shot in an american city and released in america. I'm sorry...should I have thought differently? And one of the biggest reason why I go to see films are because of who is in them.

Why do you bother getting on my case every single time someone brings this subject up? With the "Leon" comment, it makes it seem like all you do is wait around to pounce on me for my statements in this forum. \ I'm an actor who studied voice for years and to me, I can hear the pitch difference in actors voices that I know...and in music that I'm familiar with. Thus, it is my choice to only purchase NTSC versions of films I like. Does that make it right? All I know is that it makes it my choice and I don't discriminate against those who want to watch PAL discs. Live and let live. I don't understand why you're jumping down my throat every time the issue comes up "Mr Professional with a perfect pitch."

And to answer your other question...I fell asleep during the first LOTR so I'd consider it boring regardless of NTSC or PAL. In fact, PAL would've helped my situation considering it would have made it shorter.

We've disagreed on this issue many times in the past and every time you respond you seem attacked by my dislike of PAL or foreign cinema. Let it go, man. Quit lecturing me.

Jeers,

digiT

Last edited by digitalfreaknyc; 04-05-04 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 04-05-04, 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by mrwilson
...I've got quite a few Euro DVDs that are pitch corrected. Not a large percentage. Hopefully this is a new trend.
...erm... but, but, but... how do you know those Euro DVDs are "pitch-corrected"...?... is it written somewhere on the cover...?... did you read it in a review...?... how did the reviewer know...?... do you have an "in" with the makers of Euro DVDs...?...

...I used to own a (!very!) large number of Euro DVDs myself (several hundred, in fact, mostly French, but also English, Spanish, Italian, Polish, Dutch, German, Danish) and I don't think - in fact I'm pretty positive - that even a single one of those was "pitch-corrected" in any way, shape or form...

. . . . . .
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Old 04-05-04, 08:49 PM
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Originally posted by Frozen
Hendrik, a film shown in a theatre in Rome, Italy is projected at the same rate as one shown in Tulsa, Oklahoma. PAL comes in to play on video. I guess that's how a European may be able to tell the difference from what they saw in the theatre versus what they bought on DVD.
Frozen: I know that - I'm from Europe myself, lived there for forty-two years, during most of which time I went to the movies often enough - and/but I, like - I'd be willing to bet, - 99.999% of the other Europeans who were regular moviegoers never were bothered (if they noticed it at all!) by the PAL speed-up on TV, prerecorded video, LD and more recently DVD... I don't think (but I may well be wrong!) that the question ever even came up until the advent of DVD...

btw... I don't know how old you are, or if you lived through the LP era... if you did, do you really believe that the average record player (I'm not talking about super duper deluxe deluxe, very noble, very expensive machines now, just the average record player) really, but really played records at exactly thirty-three and one third rpm...?...

...hmmm...?...

. . . . . .

Last edited by Hendrik; 04-05-04 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 04-05-04, 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by digitalfreaknyc
You can state all you want. Yes, I loved Leon. I consider it an American film because it was cast primarily with american actors and shot in an american city and released in america. I'm sorry...should I have thought differently? And one of the biggest reason why I go to see films are because of who is in them.

Why do you bother getting on my case every single time someone brings this subject up? With the "Leon" comment, it makes it seem like all you do is wait around to pounce on me for my statements in this forum. \ I'm an actor who studied voice for years and to me, I can hear the pitch difference in actors voices that I know...and in music that I'm familiar with. Thus, it is my choice to only purchase NTSC versions of films I like. Does that make it right? All I know is that it makes it my choice and I don't discriminate against those who want to watch PAL discs. Live and let live. I don't understand why you're jumping down my throat every time the issue comes up "Mr Professional with a perfect pitch."

And to answer your other question...I fell asleep during the first LOTR so I'd consider it boring regardless of NTSC or PAL. In fact, PAL would've helped my situation considering it would have made it shorter.

We've disagreed on this issue many times in the past and every time you respond you seem attacked by my dislike of PAL or foreign cinema. Let it go, man. Quit lecturing me.

Jeers,

digiT
Craig,

I will try to respond to your comment in as concise manner as possible.

I am not sure why you think that I was trying to “lecture” you or anything of that nature. In fact, if you read the bottom part of my post you will notice that I agreed with your statement that it is very hard, almost impossible, for a non-native speaker to notice PAL speedup on a foreign film. Therefore I don’t understand why you concluded that my post was trying to dispute anything you have said earlier. (Including an earlier thread to which you refer where I supported your claim 100%...do you recall?).

Also, I am not capable of reading between the lines and trying to figure out what you might consider a certain film to be, hence, my comment towards Leon, which was based on the fact that recently we were discussing it. Why do you conclude that my post had a negative intention?

I also was trying to present evidence, possibly a reason, why someone without a perfect pitch might not be bothered by the PAL/NTSC format issue. Nowhere in my post have I given a preference that favors one format and dismisses the other. I rather supported Hendrik’s comment that it is indeed difficult for the untrained ear to detect the framing discrepancy (hence the pitch difference) in ALL languages. That’s all. I don’t know why you felt that my comment was intrusive.

Last but not least your preference in films and their format is your business. I REALLY don’t care what you consider worthy or not, and I respect that (that’s why I posted a “smiley” in my initial post). So, to sum it up I really have no idea why you got so defensive.

To end up on fair terms though…whatever you think we need to agree to disagree on…fine, that works for me. Let’s enjoy our discussions here and deal with film, not personal preferences.

Hope this makes sense,

Cheers,
Pro-B

Last edited by pro-bassoonist; 04-05-04 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 04-06-04, 12:26 AM
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I love my pal discs and in most cases...it's the only option if I want the film in my library. sometimes I notice it...but it's not fatal to my enjoyment of the film. to me it's obvious on a dvd like, lets say....They Live. I can easily hear the difference in the voices of John and Rowdy on the commentery track. maybe just a hint of helium usuage.

just realized 3 out of the 5 imports I just ordered are pals.
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Old 04-06-04, 02:10 AM
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Thanks for the info. I didn't realize when watching PAL dvds in Europe they hear it the same way, i assumed the players, TVs, stereos corrected it.
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Old 04-06-04, 02:44 AM
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Old 04-08-04, 06:17 PM
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...fwiw: more on pitch-corrected PAL DVDs...
(...the Germans have a word for it: "verschlimmbessern" = to make worsebetter...)

. . . . . .
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Old 04-08-04, 09:34 PM
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A good friend of mine was a manager of International Dubbing where I work and he'd talk all the time about how his department fought his attempts at pitch-correcting english-language releases from our studio. The feeling was that the cost was not worth it. A handful of movies were pitch-corrected but, believe it or not, sometimes they would only correct the lines spoken by one or two of the major actors in the feature. He said that he thought that this was actually more jarring then just leaving the entire feature as is.
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Old 04-08-04, 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by Hendrik
...remember: anywhere in Europe (except the UK and Ireland) you'd have to "pitch-correct" the dubbed-into-French version for the French, the dubbed-into-German version for the Germans, the dubbed-into-Italian version for the Italians, the dubbed-into-Spanish version for the Spaniards - not to mention the dubbed-into-Catalan version for those Spaniards who speak (only, or mostly) Catalan... you see to what (impossible?) lengths "they" would have to go - and why I am so doubtful that they did...
Why would you assume that a studio who only releases, say, German in PAL regions would dub the NTSC release and then convert it to PAL. I would assume that they'd convert the NTSC master to PAL and then dub it. Unless, of course, it had a dubbed theatrical release, in which case it may be cheaper to use the dubbed theatrical audio elements.
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Old 04-09-04, 05:55 AM
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Most people in europe haven't even heard of PAL speedup. They simply do not know that it exists. I didn't myself until reading it here on the forum.
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Old 04-09-04, 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by Peep
...Unless, of course, it had a dubbed theatrical release, in which case it may be cheaper to use the dubbed theatrical audio elements.
...well... in France, Germany, Italy, and Spain, the theatrical release of a "mainstream" (i.e. - for better or worse - American) movie would - !!!of course!!! - be dubbed into the respective local language - otherwise hardly anyone in those countries would go see it...

...have you never seen a trailer for a Disney cartoon - say Pocahontas - that showed (some of) the many languages that movie was dubbed into - including Cantonese Chinese, Mandarin Chinese, Canadian(!!!) French, "French" French, German, Italian, Spanish, etc., etc.?...

. . . . . .
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Old 04-09-04, 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by Gunde
Most people in europe haven't even heard of PAL speedup. They simply do not know that it exists. I didn't myself until reading it here on the forum.
...and aren't you happy now that you know? ...

...BTW: it's not just "most people in Europe" that haven't heard of PAL speed-up... you can add Australia and New Zealand to that list, as well as Hong Kong (their TV is PAL - yes it is!!!), and also the Indian sub-continent, and most of South America (except Brazil), and...

. . . . . .
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Old 04-09-04, 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by Hendrik
.as well as Hong Kong (their TV is PAL - yes it is!!!),
Hong Kong uses the PAL standard for television broadcast, and NTSC for home video.

Not contradicting you, Hendrik, just clarifying for new readers.
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