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Best Pal to NTSC conversion?

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Best Pal to NTSC conversion?

Old 03-05-03, 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by Matt Stevens
The Cyberhome is a very cheap player and has countless issues, which I experienced first hand. First of all, there are faint vertical lines running across the screen that appear in anything red (in 480p they appear over everything). These are not noticeable on a smaller TV. You must have a large screen to see them.

The 480p bug (massive red push and messed up blacks) cannot be fixed for most HDTV sets. Cyberhome sent me a "fixed" player that wasn't. It showed the bugs on 4 out of the 5 sets I tried it on a best Buy (not including mine, so that's 5 out of 6).

This is not a good player. Good luck to those of you that have them. I wish you the best.
I remember you posting this before, and as others have pointed out, this seems to be a problem that only you are experiencing. Specifically, I've never read of anyone else who's had a problem with the vertical lines that you described. I'm not sure what your other "countless problems" are since you didn't list them, but a look at the posts here and at nerd-out.com will show you that CyberHome's fix does work for most people, and on a variety of widescreen sets. Obviously it didn't work for your set-up, but it would appear that most people aren't experiencing the same problems as you.
Old 03-05-03, 05:08 PM
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JVC XVFA902: best.....player......ever
Old 03-05-03, 07:11 PM
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Originally posted by Sartana
I remember you posting this before, and as others have pointed out, this seems to be a problem that only you are experiencing. Specifically, I've never read of anyone else who's had a problem with the vertical lines that you described. I'm not sure what your other "countless problems" are since you didn't list them, but a look at the posts here and at nerd-out.com will show you that CyberHome's fix does work for most people, and on a variety of widescreen sets. Obviously it didn't work for your set-up, but it would appear that most people aren't experiencing the same problems as you.
Word!
Old 03-06-03, 07:26 PM
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I have a 25 inch Panasonic TV and I have noticed those verticle lines. They kind of go up and down across the screen. It's very subtle though, and the new 500 bios update that will be posted at cyberhome.com next week might fix that problem.
Old 03-06-03, 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by Prancetron2000
I have a 25 inch Panasonic TV and I have noticed those verticle lines. They kind of go up and down across the screen. It's very subtle though, and the new 500 bios update that will be posted at cyberhome.com next week might fix that problem.
I would also like to post the same fact that my luck with the Cyberhome was very poor also. My daughter bought it and I checked it out throughly because I thought it would make a good cheap alternative but it was very poor.

What size TV is everyone using?? I used a HD-TV 42 inch...

It seems that most people are using smaller TV's and are not noticing these things. However I could be wrong...
Old 03-07-03, 12:23 AM
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Well, I just placed an order for
JVC XVS-500
From what I could find out, it is the same as the 600 only without dvd audio, which was of no interest to me.

Thoughts?
Old 03-07-03, 03:04 AM
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>>It's very subtle though, and the new 500 bios update that will be posted at cyberhome.com next week might fix that problem.

Huh? Did I miss an announcement of this?
Old 03-10-03, 05:41 PM
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Ordered the Cyberhome 500 from newegg last week to replace my ailing apex AD600. Got it today with their 2 day fed-ex saver service. I'm very impressed with the PAL to NTSC conversion after playing around with it for a few minutes.

Sopranos R4 and Blood Simple R2 looked perfect to me; these looked horrible on the Apex.
Old 03-10-03, 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by d2cheer
What size TV is everyone using?? I used a HD-TV 42 inch...
32" WEGA with 16x9 capabilities
Old 03-11-03, 03:25 PM
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I have the Cyberhome 402...and absolutely love it. The PAL to NTSC is great (Like others said, I do not understand where rumors started that it did not do the conversion well).

I am viewing it on a Mitsu WS55859 or 55 inch 16:9 rptv.

The only think I hate is the amount of red it puts out....however a simple Avia tune up on that input fixed the problem.

The 402 is pretty much the same as the 500 except for the following:

-No progressive scan (IT DOES HAVE COMPONENT OUTPUTS HOWEVER)

-No optical out (IT DOES HAVE DIGITAL COAX OUT HOWEVER)

I already have 3 progressive devices hooked up through my HDTV and I was out of component inputs to use. I dont watch PAL and multi region dvds too often so I decided progressive scan wasn't too big of a deal to me. My TV does have a line doubler which kinda makes things progressive, althought not as good as my progressive player. I just have the 402 hooked up via s-video.

I am very happy with the player...it was only $40.00. I could have spent $300.00 on a JVC or Malata but for the amount that I would really those players, I cant justify the cost.

I have a Panny RP-62 as my regular player.

Last edited by murpm3; 03-11-03 at 03:30 PM.
Old 03-11-03, 04:16 PM
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Would someone please kindly confirm:

Does the 402 do PAL->NTSC conversion *AND* anamorphic downconversion properly at the same time?

So it's not just watching an anamorphic PAL disc on your anamorphic 16x9 NTSC TV.

It's specifically watching an anamorphic PAL disc on your regular 4:3 NTSC TV. Is there any distortion of the image?
Old 03-11-03, 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by ipkevin
Would someone please kindly confirm:

Does the 402 do PAL->NTSC conversion *AND* anamorphic downconversion properly at the same time?

So it's not just watching an anamorphic PAL disc on your anamorphic 16x9 NTSC TV.

It's specifically watching an anamorphic PAL disc on your regular 4:3 NTSC TV. Is there any distortion of the image?

I can verify the CH-402 does indeed do proper anamorphic downconversion on 4:3 TVs. You might notice a slight asymmetry in the letterboxing, but geometry is correct. Apparently, the very early production models had a problem with downconversion, but it has since been corrected... that's why you'll read conflicting reports on the internet.

That said, the (new) CH-402's PAL conversion is decent. I'd like to review it some more, but mine died two days ago... probably a bad power supply. I only got about 6 hours out of it before it kicked off.
Old 03-11-03, 05:49 PM
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I had Cyberhome send me a firmware upgrade disc to try to correct the "throbbing" or "shimmering" of images on PAL discs. It didn't work. I don't know what to do now, and it seems that they don't either seeing as how I received no response to my email.
Old 03-11-03, 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by dullboy
I had Cyberhome send me a firmware upgrade disc to try to correct the "throbbing" or "shimmering" of images on PAL discs. It didn't work. I don't know what to do now, and it seems that they don't either seeing as how I received no response to my email.

Because there's nothing they can do about it...

Shimmering is not a firmware issue; it's a PAL conversion and interlacing issue. You either live with it or change your setup.

There's no such thing as 100% perfect conversion. The only perfect solution is no conversion at all.
Old 03-12-03, 08:53 AM
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Quote:

"Because there's nothing they can do about it...

Shimmering is not a firmware issue; it's a PAL conversion and interlacing issue. You either live with it or change your setup.

There's no such thing as 100% perfect conversion. The only perfect solution is no conversion at all."


So why do I not here anyone else complaining about this on any of the forums? Most everyone else seems to think it has great PAL conversion. I think it sucks.
Old 03-12-03, 12:13 PM
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PAL disc playback is very jittery/jumpy on the CH-500...i've tried several PAL R2 discs that work fine on other players and DVD-ROM (R2 battle royale, R2 god of gamblers) and they play fine on them, but on the CH-500 the image stutters and lags (like if the player is overwhelmed so playback is jerky or "throbbing"). i am on the latest firmware downloaded from their website. i posted this with argus tech support but haven't heard back from them. i guess i'm not the only one experiencing this. it's very annoying, i can't enjoy a PAL disc becuz of the jumpy image!
Old 03-12-03, 03:54 PM
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That's definitely not a defect that occurs on all 500s. Mine plays PAL beautifully without any stutter or "throbbing". Have you tried an exchange? I doubt a firmware upgrade is going to help if most other 500 owners aren't even seeing this problem.

Granted, there's no such thing as "perfect" PAL conversion (you're always going to see some side effects when you convert x number of line of resolution down to a lesser number of lines), but you shouldn't be seeing any stuttering or jumping of the image. The worst thing you should see, assuming you aren't using the progressive scan feature, are jagged edges. And remember a poorly authored PAL disc is going to look even worse converted to NTSC. I was horrified at the quality of the first PAL disc I put in my 500 (CINEMA PARADISO), but it turned out it was just a lousy disc and didn't have anything to do with the player.
Old 03-12-03, 04:05 PM
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uh oh....guess i better RMA my CH-500 for the progressive display problem AND now this PAL jumpy image problem. my gf noticed the problem as well, so it's not my imagination. darn!
Old 03-12-03, 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by darmok
PAL disc playback is very jittery/jumpy on the CH-500...i've tried several PAL R2 discs that work fine on other players and DVD-ROM (R2 battle royale, R2 god of gamblers) and they play fine on them, but on the CH-500 the image stutters and lags (like if the player is overwhelmed so playback is jerky or "throbbing").
It's dropping frames; I've seen it also. By any chance are those two R2 discs put out by the same company?
Old 03-12-03, 04:32 PM
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they're from various well-known R2 companies....battle royale's from tartan; god of gamblers is from MIA. i've even tried some HKL (hong kong legends) discs and they all slug on playback. these discs are fine on other players. btw, i'm using standard composite video only (the cable that comes with the player).
Old 03-12-03, 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by darmok
they're from various well-known R2 companies....battle royale's from tartan; god of gamblers is from MIA. i've even tried some HKL (hong kong legends) discs and they all slug on playback. these discs are fine on other players. btw, i'm using standard composite video only (the cable that comes with the player).
Well, chances are it's just software incompatibility. What you have to do is find other people who have the same player and DVDs, or test your DVDs on someone else's CH-500. If other people are having the same problems, all of the problematic titles should be brought to Argus' attention so they can fix it in the future.
Old 03-12-03, 04:55 PM
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One thing I do know is that Tartan's R2 BATTLE ROYALE is a poorly authored disc. I haven't seen it on the 500, but others have reported it's low quality in comparison to Tartan's later All Region NTSC release of the film.
Old 03-12-03, 05:33 PM
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My Tartan Battle Royale disc also drops frames on my Cyberhome. Others that look jittery and throbbing are the spanish releases of The Others and Thesis. I wonder if I can exchange my player through the Cyberhome web site.
Old 06-06-03, 09:22 AM
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From my personal experience, the cyberhome has a better pal conversion compared to the malata. I have the N996 Malata and Cyberhome CH-500.
But the $64,000 dollar question is - are you capable of using the progressive output of the Malata? I've just reviewed this thread and I'm not sure this issue has been raised once.

The Malata shines if you have a progressive-capable display. The shimmering issues in all my R2 discs are gone in this mode.

If you have an interlaced output, you are not getting all you can out of your Malata.
Old 06-06-03, 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by Bleddyn Williams
If you have an interlaced output, you are not getting all you can out of your Malata.
That same statement can be made about any player on the market. And, there are PS region free players that are much better than the Malata as well when using that mode.

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