are region free players illegal?
#1
are region free players illegal?
just saw this on the Cyberhome website (I just got their 500)
"By law, all players shipped in the USA are set to region 1. It is not legal to provide any means of changing the region code to allow the use of other region's discs."
Does that mean anyone setting this (or any player) to region "ALL" is violating some kind of international law?
Isn't there a Malata that ships to the US region free?
am confused... want to see some non-region 1 discs, but want to be legal...
any insights on this??
"By law, all players shipped in the USA are set to region 1. It is not legal to provide any means of changing the region code to allow the use of other region's discs."
Does that mean anyone setting this (or any player) to region "ALL" is violating some kind of international law?
Isn't there a Malata that ships to the US region free?
am confused... want to see some non-region 1 discs, but want to be legal...
any insights on this??
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 365
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For 'by law', read 'by terms of the license agreement set down by the DVD Forum'. They are required to ship a player set to R1. They are also entitled to ship it with a remote hack, because there is nothing illegal about importing movies for personal use.
#3
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Italia
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what the Cyberhome website writes is b******t
the world is a crazy place but no law has divided it in 6 DVD regions yet
DVD regions are a trade agreement between DVD manufacturers, movie studios and so on.
The only practical effect of all this is related to the loss of the manufacturer's warranty since to make code free a player you modify it, but usually sellers of freed DVD players provide themselves a warranty to their customers.
There is no law to violate here, that's all.
mdm67
the world is a crazy place but no law has divided it in 6 DVD regions yet
DVD regions are a trade agreement between DVD manufacturers, movie studios and so on.
The only practical effect of all this is related to the loss of the manufacturer's warranty since to make code free a player you modify it, but usually sellers of freed DVD players provide themselves a warranty to their customers.
There is no law to violate here, that's all.
mdm67
Last edited by mdm67; 12-04-02 at 02:56 AM.
#5
DVD Talk Legend
As others have said, hacking a player to be region free may violate an agreement that a seller has with the manufacturer. It may violate your warranty. But it does not violate any law.
You (as a consumer) are doing absolutely nothing wrong by owning a region-free player.
You (as a consumer) are doing absolutely nothing wrong by owning a region-free player.
#6
thanks for the feeback
Definitely feel better.
personally, I think the whole region coding thing seems to violate the entire concept of free enterprise. I mean, if Australia does a better version of a movie than the US, shouldn't the US lose money to australia per normal free market rules?
The only situation where this makes sense to me is in the case where a big budget movie (like two towers) is released on DVD in region 4 (not that far fetched since that is Jackson's native land) befofe the DVD hits the us. In that case, I can see where substantial amout of people would buy the Region 4 version to get it early, thus hurting US sales. Even worse would be the situation where the R4 DVD is released before the movie hits the US. I do think this would seriously hurt NewLine Cinema's US theatrical gross profits.. After all, why wait to see the movie in the US where you can buy the DVD (with tons of supplements) BEFORE you see the movie?
But, let's get real.. This situation is highly unlikely.. just mentioning that IN THEORY there may be some rationale behind region coding...
But since there are TONS of movies available in non-region 1 that will never (or maybe in years) be released in region 1, region coding just doesn't make sense at all.
got off topic --- but thanks again for the input... just what I was looking for.
personally, I think the whole region coding thing seems to violate the entire concept of free enterprise. I mean, if Australia does a better version of a movie than the US, shouldn't the US lose money to australia per normal free market rules?
The only situation where this makes sense to me is in the case where a big budget movie (like two towers) is released on DVD in region 4 (not that far fetched since that is Jackson's native land) befofe the DVD hits the us. In that case, I can see where substantial amout of people would buy the Region 4 version to get it early, thus hurting US sales. Even worse would be the situation where the R4 DVD is released before the movie hits the US. I do think this would seriously hurt NewLine Cinema's US theatrical gross profits.. After all, why wait to see the movie in the US where you can buy the DVD (with tons of supplements) BEFORE you see the movie?
But, let's get real.. This situation is highly unlikely.. just mentioning that IN THEORY there may be some rationale behind region coding...
But since there are TONS of movies available in non-region 1 that will never (or maybe in years) be released in region 1, region coding just doesn't make sense at all.
got off topic --- but thanks again for the input... just what I was looking for.
#7
DVD Talk Reviewer
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Blu-ray.com
Posts: 10,380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
By the same token we should not have French food sold in the US as the only authentic French food was meant to be prepared and sold in France (or at least thats what we were thaught during our culinary class). I sure can not argue with this logic....it all about the free market....if you got better stuff I will buy from you....
Besides, there are too many damn "morality watchdogs" in the US that think that everytime we see some nudity something vicious will happen.......
Besides, there are too many damn "morality watchdogs" in the US that think that everytime we see some nudity something vicious will happen.......
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the whole DVD region thing violates a world trade organisation agreement, but only the Australiain Goverment are doing anything about it (If I recall, complaints can only be brought by Governments and not individuals)
#10
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah - USA
Posts: 5,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
...incidentally, if region-free players were indeed 'illegal', would this very site dare advertise a special offer for this type of hardware ...
. . . . . .
. . . . . .
#11
Cool New Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The biggest reason why region coding exists is to protect revenue at the box office. Of course, to release a movie simultaneously worldwide theatrically, could not be common, given censorship and content laws in different countries. Either way, like others in this forum, I'll be buying the best release, because I'm available to view it. Love the Cyberhome player. The best $80.00 I've ever given to Best Buy.
Now the issue of releasing a Special Edition, then a Collector's edition, then an Ultimate edition, then the Everything-but-the-kitchen-sink edition is what bugs me.
Now the issue of releasing a Special Edition, then a Collector's edition, then an Ultimate edition, then the Everything-but-the-kitchen-sink edition is what bugs me.
#15
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Earth
Posts: 2,693
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
riaa... :rubbingfingerssuggestingmoneymoney:
another reason for the regions is to combat piracy (yeah, it's really working ) china gets a region all to themselves. of course, they're the biggest producers of region-free stuff...
another reason for the regions is to combat piracy (yeah, it's really working ) china gets a region all to themselves. of course, they're the biggest producers of region-free stuff...
#16
Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Morgantown, WV
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DMCA & region coding
Sorry to dig up this old thread, but I read a few old usenet posts through Google Groups that suggested defeating region coding may be disallowed in the U.S. by the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA) because it circumvents "access controls".
Is anyone familiar with the DMCA & able to comment on this? I have a substantial tax refund coming & am considering buying a region free player with same. But I don't want to make such a purchase with a doubtful conscience.
Regards
Edward Curtis
Is anyone familiar with the DMCA & able to comment on this? I have a substantial tax refund coming & am considering buying a region free player with same. But I don't want to make such a purchase with a doubtful conscience.
Regards
Edward Curtis
#17
DVD Talk Reviewer
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Blu-ray.com
Posts: 10,380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the only "doubtful" issue will be if you do not get one.....then I will say that there is something wrong with you.
A region-free player will broaden your knowledge about film like you have never even thought of it before......
A region-free player will broaden your knowledge about film like you have never even thought of it before......
#18
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Re: DMCA & region coding
Originally posted by WhFastus
Sorry to dig up this old thread, but I read a few old usenet posts through Google Groups that suggested defeating region coding may be disallowed in the U.S. by the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA) because it circumvents "access controls".
Is anyone familiar with the DMCA & able to comment on this? I have a substantial tax refund coming & am considering buying a region free player with same. But I don't want to make such a purchase with a doubtful conscience.
Sorry to dig up this old thread, but I read a few old usenet posts through Google Groups that suggested defeating region coding may be disallowed in the U.S. by the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA) because it circumvents "access controls".
Is anyone familiar with the DMCA & able to comment on this? I have a substantial tax refund coming & am considering buying a region free player with same. But I don't want to make such a purchase with a doubtful conscience.
So is region coding a technological measure that effectively controls access to a copyrighted work? To view a DVD from a certain region, you must apply a certain process to the disc in its ordinary course of operation in a DVD player; that is, you must use a DVD player from a certain region. The DMCA as not been litigated much, but CSS encryption has been found to be a technological measure that effectively controls access to copyrighted works. That is so because a consumer must apply the CSS decryption process built into a DVD player in order to view the disc. Without the use of a DVD player with CSS decryption, the disc is not watchable. Likewise, without a DVD player coded for a certain region, discs coded for those regions are not watchable. Both CSS encryption and region coding require a consumer to play their discs in certain approved DVD players in order to view their DVDs. If CSS is a technological measure that effectively controls access to copyrighted works, then so is region coding.
Is use of a region-free player a circumvention of a technological measure? Yes. This is certainly an "avoid[ance]" or "bypassing" of region coding by either modifying a DVD player or by using a player that has been programmed in violation of the manufacturer's contract with the licensors of DVD technology. Either appears to be a bypassing to me.
So I think it's almost certainly the case that use of a region-free DVD player to watch DVDs from regions other than the one in which you live (or, of course, region-free discs) constitutes a violation of the anti-circumvention provision of the DMCA. Whether you can make a purchase with a clean or doubtful conscience is up to you.
DJ
#19
DVD Talk Legend
Of course, the legality of the DMCA is being questioned, as it seems to violate several 'fair use' provisions that other copyright laws contain.
#20
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Originally posted by Jay G.
Of course, the legality of the DMCA is being questioned, as it seems to violate several 'fair use' provisions that other copyright laws contain.
Of course, the legality of the DMCA is being questioned, as it seems to violate several 'fair use' provisions that other copyright laws contain.
Congress can pass a law, if it wishes, that still makes it illegal to do an action that might otherwise be Fair Use. There is no contradiction, since Fair Use is only an exception to copyright infringement: violating the anti-circumention provision of the DMCA is illegal unto itself, and not mere copyright infringement that has a Fair Use exception. You can theoretically be safe for taking a certain action under Fair Use and still violate the DMCA, and Congress is very much allowed to pass a law that creates such a situation. The actions are distinct from one another, and each can have sanctions unto themselves legislated by Congress without there being a problem. For the DMCA to be somehow "illegal," it would have to violate the Constitution and not merely be somehow inconsistent with the U.S. Copyright Act. And, frankly, I've yet to see a persuasive argument for the unconstitutionality of the DMCA.
The DMCA was passed in 1998, and, 5 years later, it's still in effect with no serious challenge to its constitutionality from a Federal court. I see nothing to stop this trend any time soon.
DJ
#21
DVD Talk Legend
I stand corrected.
Still, changing the region code might fall under 'fair use,' and it doesn't look like the studios think region-free players are worth lawsuits, so I'd say they're ok.
Still, changing the region code might fall under 'fair use,' and it doesn't look like the studios think region-free players are worth lawsuits, so I'd say they're ok.
#22
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Originally posted by Jay G.
Still, changing the region code might fall under 'fair use,'
Still, changing the region code might fall under 'fair use,'
DJ
#23
ethical question
sounds like the thrust behind the law is to prevent people from hacking/tampering with DVD players to circumvente region coding.
But what about the Malata, or even the Cyber home 500 (which can be made region free via the setup menu). Would seeing non region 1 movies on these machines also be in violation?
And what about watching the PC to watch DVDs? Most PC's that I know of have a built-in feature to change the region code as part of the PC's function...
so is it software/hardware hacking that is illegal, or is it the viewing of the DVD itself?
But what about the Malata, or even the Cyber home 500 (which can be made region free via the setup menu). Would seeing non region 1 movies on these machines also be in violation?
And what about watching the PC to watch DVDs? Most PC's that I know of have a built-in feature to change the region code as part of the PC's function...
so is it software/hardware hacking that is illegal, or is it the viewing of the DVD itself?
#24
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,337
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: ethical question
Originally posted by cinemaman
Most PC's that I know of have a built-in feature to change the region code as part of the PC's function...
Most PC's that I know of have a built-in feature to change the region code as part of the PC's function...
#25
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Re: ethical question
Originally posted by cinemaman
But what about the Malata, or even the Cyber home 500 (which can be made region free via the setup menu). Would seeing non region 1 movies on these machines also be in violation?
But what about the Malata, or even the Cyber home 500 (which can be made region free via the setup menu). Would seeing non region 1 movies on these machines also be in violation?
so is it software/hardware hacking that is illegal, or is it the viewing of the DVD itself?
The creation of hacking software/hardware is a different illegal act unto itself: "No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that...is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title...." 17 USCS § 1201(a)(2)(A). Use of such software is then a circumvention of an access control.
DJ