Yes this is my recollection as well. At the time the PS3 came out, the only other players available were the shitty launch Samsung player and the insanely expensive tank Sony player ($1K). I remember because I wanted to get Blu-ray in November of 2006 and PS3's were hard to get at the time, so I bought the Sony tank. Within a year it was showing its limitations vs. the PS3 for Blu-ray. Anyone I knew or read about who wanted Blu-ray was getting a PS3 back then.

Perhaps Sony felt a little burned by the losses from using the PS3 as a Trojan Horse and that's partly why they're not including it. IIRC, they had to raise the price and delay the launch, both of which helped lead to the Xbox overtaking it in sales. That would have been fine, since perhaps the xbox might have done so anyway, who knows, but I think frankly Sony is very disappointed with Blu-ray adoption and expected it to completely take over DVD. So it's understandable the pessimism they may have about UHD BD and it not being worth the bother.

You mean, like $15 bucks more (the price difference in drives)?

Yes. If the mandate is "don't sell at a loss" or "lose no more than $xx per console", $15 can make a real difference.

Sony could pass along the cost, but people will look at a $414.99 console differently than a $399.99 one.

Yes the common thought was they sacrificed the console war for the format war. But then Microsoft shot themselves about 10 times in the foot with the X1 and allowed Sony to win the next-gen console war.

Meh, they probably could've saved $15 by going with a 500GB drive instead of a 1TB one, at least in the base model. It was really a choice of priorities, and Sony decided that they didn't need UHD Blu-ray as a feature to sell their PS4 Pro, which to me is a mistake. The 1TB drive is eventually going to be considered "too small," and people will swap it out to get more space, but people can't swap out the optical drive and gain UHD Blu-ray playback.

So does she do those streaming rentals when she wants to watch new movies, or does she only watch whatever Netflix/Amazon/etc. already have?

It's weird, there was such a backlash from the gaming community over going media-less for games, but not for movies? Do that many people trade in stuff at GameStop? Is it just because movies are easier to pirate or something? I don't get the disparity.

I think Sony announcing today that for Taxi Driver's 40th Anniversary they are giving it a theatrical release and did a 4K restoration on it, but are only releasing it in standard Blu but not UHD, speaks volumes...

I think it's basically whatever Netflix offers as well as the Shomi/CraveTV (whichever one she gets free) and maybe even another streaming service. I don't think she streams new rentals - but I'm sure if there were something she couldn't wait for, she'd do that. The key is there's always something to watch while those new releases filter down to those streaming services. To alot of people, there's no urgency to watch a particular movie.

One major thing I didn't expand on was how convenient streaming is for her young kids. So simple to navigate the Netflix app on their SmartTV. Plus their tastes/moods change so often that they can switch between movies/shows numerous times without it being a pain. The kids often misplace discs, which would make it a hassle to constantly look for them... usually finding them dirty or scratched. It's not hard to imagine how frustrating that can be with a collection of 100+ movies - not to mention costly.

^ That's why parents need to teach their kids RESPONSIBILITY and how to properly take care of things! I had a lot of records when I was a kid and I quickly learned those got scratched easily. Instead of trashing them all and forcing my parents to replace them (or me to go without them) I figured out how to properly handle them! Just a first step in common sense.

The 2013 release was already based on the 4K restoration. This 40th anniversary will be using the same master and probably will be the same encode so the only difference will be added extras.

This movie was not graded for HDR so it's no surprise that it's not getting released on UHD. It's been available for years on the 4k Sony download site, but like most of the 4K movies there, there's not much of a visual difference. When you strip everything but resolution upgrade from the UHD feature set, you're not going to see a big difference. Even on a projector. UHD BD will be mainly new release and recent catalog. They might release it later on UHD though.

You're preaching to the choir. I was the same way when I was a kid... had to always clean up after myself, put things away when I'm done with them, etc.
It seems to be different nowadays. I see it often - kids are slobs and aren't given responsibilities/chores around the house.

And I guess that's the point I was trying to make. If that's our view of UHD, then I personally am less likely to bother. I want Taxi Driver, not San Andreas...

You do, but the movies that will sell are the new ones, not the classics. The new ones are filmed mostly in HD and 4K. And what better way to say "watch this new Marvel movie at home in 4K". That sells. Not older titles.

The new movies sales are perhaps 70% of the revenue on Blu-ray. With UHD it will be even more a new release format.

I think an argument can be made though that studios need to appeal to the early adopters first in order for the format to then reach a wider audience, and a catalog title like Taxi Driver would have been just such an opportunity to do that...

Well...we have news for you...

The player that may come out in 2017? But definitely not the system that is coming out in November of this year. That SCREAMS of a lack of confidence in UHD.

Of course it does. Everyone else sees it, why can't you?

A corporation's "confidence" is amorphous. We can talk about what they do. We can talk about what they choose not to do. We can talk about trends: support ramping up, support winding down, etc. We can compare how Sony is supporting this format vs. how they've treated other formats in the past. Extrapolating how a corporation feels about a product, on the other hand -- particularly when taking certain things into account and completely disregarding other very obvious elements -- is a masturbatory waste of time and accomplishes nothing.

I'll spell it out this way. If you want to talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray -- and that goes for the good and the bad -- your presence here is welcome. If you're coming here to just sneer, we'll have to dust off the Format War rules from a decade ago.

No, it does not inherently mean that. Sony could very well have some degree of enthusiasm for the format but still not be able to make the numbers work for the PS4 Pro. There is absolutely, undeniably support from Sony right now and absolutely, undeniably support from Sony coming in the future.

Is that incontrovertible proof of a lack of confidence. No. Is that incontrovertible proof of confidence? No. So, forget the confidence argument and find something of substance to talk about instead.

Which is exactly what you are doing. It is blatantly obvious to many people in this thread that the gaming arm of Sony has little interest/confidence in UHD at the moment. Couple that with the fact that Sony is not going to have a UHD player on the market until at the earliest, sometime time in late 2017 possibly, and it doesn't really take a rocket scientist to see the writing on the wall.
Why are you burying your head so firmly in the sand on this?

So, because my opinion differs from yours, you threaten me with some sort of mod punishment? How very "mod"ly of you.

Re-read my post a little more closely. Pay particular attention to the end where I don't leap to any conclusions one way or the other.

Did you watch the conference? The PS4 Pro has all sorts of features for UHD gaming, and they aimed a spotlight on both Netflix UHD and YouTube UHD. They are very much supporting UHD.

UHD and UHD BD are not one and the same. (FWIW, it's also spelled "Blu-ray", not "Blueray".) The lack of Ultra HD Blu-ray playback in the PS4 Pro is not inherently indicative of a lack of confidence in the format. We know what Sony did, we know what Sony hasn't done, and we know what a Sony representative said. Those are worth discussing. I can't relate to your obsession with what Sony thinks or feels, or to whatever extent either of those words can apply to a corporation.

Sony said their first Ultra HD Blu-ray player will hit the market in the current fiscal year, so April 2017 is the ceiling as things stand now. I haven't seen any credible source (or even an un-credible source) say "late 2017".

As far as I know, Sony uses MediaTek tech to power their Blu-ray players, and MediaTek's UHD BD SoC isn't in full production (or only just recently went into full production; "2nd half of 2016" is as detailed an answer as I've been able to find).

I'm not. You're willfully misreading what I'm posting.

I could rattle off an extremely long list of things about UHD BD that make me frown. I have very limited expectations for what the future holds for the format. I'm far from some sort of UHD BD cheerleader. I even agree with Sony that UHD BD playback was an inessential feature for the console, for crying out loud. I think it's silly to have a UHD-centric console with "Pro" in the name that misses out on the highest quality form of UHD media available, but I understand the call they made.

I am interested in conversations that have some measure of thought or consideration behind them. I'd point to this post of Coral's, for instance, as what I'd like to see here (and it's not exactly eye to eye with the way I feel). I am not exactly left with the sense that you're interested in a proper conversation.

I think this is where a lot of confusion lies. From a few of my friends and co-workers, they think UHD is the same as UHD BD. More specifically, UHD is the physical media that can be played on 4K TV's. I didn't even attempt to explain Dolby Vision and HDR.

And in terms of Sony lacking confidence, they still own the patent for blu ray, right? Or how does that work for UHD BD's? If they still own some level of blu ray, then I see very little reason for them to abandon it. It will still make money, no matter how small.

Sony has a slice of the pie, but they aren't the only ones with the fingers in their Blu-ray patent pool. I seem to remember reading that Panasonic actually held more Blu-ray patents than Sony.

It's kind of strange how in a lot of ways, it feels like Ultra HD Blu-ray is getting to the party too late and yet it's not quite ready for prime time either. (...or maybe it's just me!)

I'm very much interested in a "proper conversation". Unfortunately a "proper conversation" seemingly can't be had when people refuse to look at all the evidence that is before us, and continue to bury their head in the sand. All while issuing vague threats of moderator action for having a disagreeing viewpoint. To top it off, when certain people are being intentionally obtuse with regards to UHD vs UHD blueray. The conversation has always been about UHD blueray and Sony's apparent lack of confidence in the format, and you obviously know that, as evidenced by your continual mention of a possible standalone player release possibly 8 months in the future.

It's not just you... it feels the same to me as well.

It's not just the disc format, it's the whole UHD thing as well.
Not all UHD TVs support HDR... and those that do, some have either HDR10 or Dolby Vision (rare that they have both)... and then the implementation of them differs as well where the TVs can't take proper advantage of them (ie. not bright enough, etc). This just confuses the consumer and turns them off. Nevermind that it pisses those off who realise their new UHD TV doesn't do HDR (or well enough). People can't be dropping big bucks over and over again until the manufacturers get things right.