Thought this worthy of it's own thread so we don't clutter up the current one.



HD DVD strikes back! Wonder how much money Toshiba gets from each sale? I can see other studios jumping in if this is a success. Cuts down on DVD copies being sold (from BD sets) and is a good way for retailers to stock more BD copies. Poor Blu-ray...can't beat DVD might as well join them.

Awesome! All for it.

I can't wait to hear about all the faulty discs that don't play correctly. And isn't this bigger than the defined spec for DVD or Blu-ray?

I don't think the size is a big deal for the specs, for example, DualDiscs didn't conform the CD spec, but did conform to the DVD spec.

You mean like the widespread reports that the Universal flippers are all failures? Aside from the Bourne discs that were basically recalled on release day, I've heard nothing.

There have been 6 flippers total...,

This just turned from a blind buy to a rental. I guess bad judgment is contagious amongst studios.

I had several DVD players that wouldn't play DualDiscs.

I dunno if you were responding to me, but whether there was 1 or 30, there have not been widespread complaints, despite widespread doomsaying.

And you don't remember DVD 18s failing after some time? A rerelease of a catalog title and 3 others likely didn't sellsmy copies for there to be widespread problems.

Fine, let me rephrase: I have not heard of any non-specific-disc-based problems from anyone who purchased these titles on any of the forums I post on.

I don't really expect to, either. The magic number touted in the "flipper disc" thread was six months. The Bourne discs streeted on Jan 19th, 2010, so six months is just around the corner.

People can prefer to have non-flippers. But if they work, don't act like it's a technical issue. There IS certainly the chance they could start failing, but it seems like Universal, at the very least, has solved the glue problem.

It's also possible with number manufactured for these releases likely being small, they took their time, or didn't try to to force borderline discs. We don't know what the yield is for these batches. Maybe they also implemented a testing phase to ensure every disc that goes out is playable.

If a big day and date like Eclipse gets a combo release, that will be the true test I think. Thinking back to HD DVD, I don't recall the few catalog titles that came out (Breakfast Club, Army of Darkness) having problems. But day and dates like Children of Men and Good Shepherd sure did, as well as high profile catalog titles like the Matrix movies.

I for one don't care at all about disc art. I'm opposed to these simply because they introduce a variable which doesn't need to be there. You want Blu-ray and DVD in the same package? Put it on separate discs. That's more convenient than having them on the same disc anyway.

There is a reason Universal picked mostly modest-selling titles as their first flippers. I have grave doubts the production of flippers could be scaled up for a title the magnitude of Avatar or Dark Knight, without widespread defects.

Another movie I will be completely skipping because of a shortsighted decision by a distributor. The studios must be aware there are consumers who are actively avoiding spending money on flippers, but have accepted that loss in sales for whatever reason I guess.

I'm sure they feel that the number of people who would consider having both Blu and DVD in one package to be a good idea far exceeds the number that actively avoid flippers.

Children of Men was an actual production issue (too much glue). It was all because one guy was not paying attention when the discs were being pressed. Aside from that, the rest were pretty much hit and miss. Firmware updates fixed most of the problems.

Darn, and here I thought we were finally getting that dolphin movie rather than just another thing for DVDTalk to gripe about. Oh well................

Er, I reread Gizmo's post. As I went into in great detail in the other Universal flipper thread, I have never had a defective DVD-18, and I had/have most of the ones Universal released (Casino, Mallrats, Carlito's Way, Orgazmo, several double features, etc).

I don't yet have a BD flipper... but I have never had a single issue with a DVD-18 or HD-DVD flipper, on several different machines, over the course of a decade or so. *shrug*

I don't see the big deal. Seems like a good idea for studios, retailers, and consumers.

Once again, these discs are always desirable and OK with some people until they have a problem with one. There is always going to be a percentage of people who don't have problems unless it's a 100% failure rate. What bugs me is there is this pervasive tone from those who haven't had problems which tries to negate the problem. The reality is, any failure rate above the average failure rate of a non-combo is unacceptable. I have never had a problem with the *concept* of combos or DVD-18. The *execution* has been piss poor.

I maintained three different HD DVD players during the format's run - an HD-A1, and HD-A20 and an HD-XA2. All were meticulously cared for and kept strictly up to date. These discs I had problems with were unplayable on all 3 players. Any implication that it is the player's fault is frankly BS. The players I used with DVD-18 were also good players, not Walmart specials or the like. These players played (and still play) regular DVD just fine going on 7-8 years in service. Somehow, DVD-18 was the only thing that didn't play right. So that's the player's fault? Don't think so.

Maybe they have turned the corner with Blu-ray combos. I'm not inclined to find out based on their track record in other formats. I'll import these discs if need be, as other regions have clearly opted for reliability over some perceived "added value", which again, could be just as easily achieved by putting the DVD in separately.

Conversely, I am responding to people who seem to think their poor experience with HD-DVDs means the same thing can never ever work on Blu-Ray.

But maybe this is a bit of a biased response, because I don't think I was a regular poster in the forum when the DVD-18s were around. I saw the fracas over the HD-DVDs and considered it "bigger" than any complaints about DVD-18s, and I never experienced any problems with it.

I guess if there were relatively major problems with DVD-18s, I can see how it would be "they got it wrong, and then they got it wrong again, so why should I trust them now". But my perspective has traditionally been just from my awareness of problems on HD-DVD, in which case it seems more like "we tried it once and it didn't work so forget it forever!!"

I'd just rather not gamble on a product that I perceive to have a greater risk of failure in the future. Yeah, ok BD flippers are "new technology" but it's the same idea as before. Not saying never, but I can definitely give it a yr.

And why haven't they ceased production of the DVD's if they were strongly behind their new format? It doesn't give the impression they really support it by only releasing a handful of titles.

Summit's home entertainment division is technically... wait for it... Universal.

So this news, not that big of a surprise. I prefer separate discs, but that's just me; especially since I now own a "slew" of titles that include DVDs with them.

Furry Vengeance, from Summit, will also be a "Flipper". Wow, if more studios do this, it looks like they are really giving up going 'mainstream'.

I'm all for flippers, if for no other reason than the fact that all the baseless, hysterical hate they generate is hilarious.

I had forgotten that little nugget of information, which explains them releasing flippers. At least this means no studio outside of Universal's control on home video has gone brain-dead. I wonder if Summit agreed to this move, or was it strictly at the behest of Universal? Maybe Universal cut them a deal on distribution fees for these movies if they agreed to the flippers.