Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

It is my strong belief that you are very wrong.

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

Ditto. First, you can't compare the production of Vertigo to that of Psycho. The only thing relevant to the discussion of Psycho, is the history of that particular film itself. Psycho started out as being considered, albeit very reluctantly and with many roadblocks along the way, for a cheap and fast production for television. However, Hitchcock made many sacrifices in order to make sure that Psycho would be made the way he wanted it to be... as a theatrical film, and that's what Psycho was filmed to be. The film's aspect ratio was 1.85:1, and was shot on 35mm. That's all we really need to know in order to figure out what Hitchcock's intent truly was. He fought and did whatever he good to make Psycho a theatrical presentation, and the way it was filmed shows it.

There's been a lot of debate about this over the years... debate that usually boils down to, "Well too bad he's dead and we can't really know for sure." I think it's sort of a copout to 'agree to disagree' in this way about such a topic, because you piece the story together and it's pretty obvious what the intent was.

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

This camera shot with Perkins' head cut off occurs five (5) count 'em five times in the scene for a total of a lot more than five seconds. If we're going to discuss this let's not spread misinformation.

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/image...ey/psycho3.jpg

That said I don't think the wide-screen issue is as bad as Touch of Evil. That's awful.

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

Too bad hitch is dead and can't square away this whole 1.33:1 vs 1.85:1 debacle. i am in the camp that believes this film is and always will be a 1.85:1 theatrical film and the Open Matte was for TV only. It's kinda the same thing that Robert Rodreguiz does with alot of his films. 2.35:1 for theatrical and 1.78:1 for home video

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

Someone else brought up Vertigo and other wide-screen Hitch films into the discussion not I. They did it to share the info that Hitch was a wide-screen guy by this point and it's laughable to suggest that Psycho was a one-off effort by 1960. So, I think it's fair game to ask for similar heads cut for mid-range shots within Vertigo involving two key actors.

:munches popcorn while waiting:

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

The UK caps were 1.85:1 unless I'm mistaken.

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

Even if it were filmed for 4x3, you wouldn't see Perkins' face on most TVs due to overscan. There's no debate and nothing sane about using an ancient VHS tape as any sort of reference for a film.

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

Noted and edited (Yeah, I sort of dropped the ball and misspoke there). Like I said though, the two of them are having a conversation. When the camera focuses on her during the conversation, it is this shot. When it focuses on him, it is a reverse angle where he can be seen fully. All other shots in the sequence are framed so that the action is composed in such a way that if you were to open the mattes, you would just have a bunch of dead space. In fact, all the shots I saw as I jumped around chapters, through the whole film, were like that (Excessive headroom if opened).

Sorry for the misinformation. Really, I apologize. I fast forwarded through until I saw that shot, watched it, and then typed up my post. (That's how I got the 5 second count)

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

Saul Bass's storyboards for the shower scene clearly indicate widescreen composition (though they are narrower than 1.85:1, about 1.60:1) -- they can be seen in the "Hitchcock gallery" on hitchcockwiki.com, I am not allowed to post the URL.

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

Here ya go: Alfred Hitchcock Wiki

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

But really, take a look at the open matte version of this shot. The top of Perkins' head is cut off even in "full frame". If Hitchcock were framing this shot with the intent of showing both actors' faces, he would have given Perkins a lot more headroom.

With his eyes so close to the top edge of the frame, they were very likely to be lost on most theater screens due to variances in theatrical projection (if Hitchcock could have even gotten the film projected in 4:3 at all, which was unlikely at best). And the eyes would certainly have been lost on TV screens (if this were truly intended to be a TV movie) due to the severe overscan all televisions had at the time. Hitchcock was a very technical director and would have known this.

The 4:3 version of that shot is just bad composition. The 1.85:1 version puts the focus on Janet Leigh and makes it much clearer that Perkins' face is supposed to be out of frame. The shot works much better at 1.85:1.

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

Psycho is one of my absolute favorite films of all times.

I've watched the 4:3 version countless times, and I've watched the 1.85:1 version at least a dozen times. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Hitchcock intended 1:85:1 to be the correct aspect ratio.

All anyone has to do is watch the entire film, and study the composition of each shot to realize which version looks best overall. You can't cherry pick a few scenes for comparison, you have to examine the film as a whole.

I don't believe anyone who is a fan of this film could honestly say they prefer it open matte.

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

Sheesh. Why is this even a debate? I'm not sure but I guess around 85% of films shot from the beginning of film history have been shot with spherical lenses fully exposing the image onto 35mm film, which has a frame ratio of 1.33:1 or therebouts. Starting in the early 50's and right up until today these films have been matted at 1:85 when shown in theaters. Psycho is not some unique phenomina in this regard. AND that's not counting super35, and who knows what other kind of crazy digital processes they have these days.

Bottom line, you want to open up the mattes on Psycho then you might as well open up the mattes on 85% or so of the movies ever made.

Someone else can confirm or disprove the 85% number, if that's even possible. But it seems reasonable enough.

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

That's a good point. The reason I made that Vertigo challenge is that is not how Hitch composes a shot in widescreen. While filmmakers in the current day will cut off heads left and right, Hitch didn't do that (I don't think he did it once in Vertigo).

Which leaves us with rather sloppy composition in Psycho or something else afoot.

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

My question is why is this the ONLY shot that is being used to try and convince people it was meant to be shot in 4:3? Is this the only shot that is "bad" in framing? If so there really is no argument about open matte or not. I believe the film was meant to be 1.85:1 and I don't care if the BD is going to be in 1.85:1, that's the way I want it. Also that particular shot as another poster said, the focus is on Janet Leigh, not Anthony Perkins. Perkins was much taller than Leigh and it would make sense to cut him off in order to get her in frame and give her enough head room as well as still getting Perkins in the shot a little. Could you imagine how much empty space there would be above her head if Perkins' head was fully in frame as well?

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

Because almost every other shot in the movie, if shown unmatted, would make it painfully obvious that the movie is meant to be matted.

The dude on that blog thinks he's right, so he was very selective in only getting shots that support his opinion. Hell, even a few of the shots he picked have massive headroom with open mattes.

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/image...ey/psycho4.jpg

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

Yes and we all know how Hitch wouldn't compose for headroom above the actor that was the focus of the shot in his undisputed widescreen releases ... right? Said less sarcastically ... Hitch was the master at creating tension by having actors NOT at eye level to each other and used a variety of techniques to accomplish that and get both faces in the shot. If you wish to watch a virtual waltz of different eye levels watch the dance that Scottie and Gavin Elster (two tall men) do in Elster's office in Vertigo. It should be required viewing for every Hitch 102 class.

http://a.imageshack.us/img830/8518/v...adroom2.th.jpg
http://a.imageshack.us/img571/1139/v...adroom3.th.jpg
http://a.imageshack.us/img299/8618/v...adroom4.th.jpg
http://a.imageshack.us/img203/964/ve...adroom1.th.jpg

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

You are still wrong.

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

The amount of headspace in all four of those shots you used is much closer to the 1.85:1 framing of Psycho than the open matte framing.

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

What? In the 1.85:1 framing of Psycho, you would be lucky to fit Vera's hairline or forehead above her head in the shots we've discussed.

In the 1.85:1 Vertigo shots posted, in all shots Kim Novak's full head would fit above her head in the frame, sometimes twice. It's not even close.

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/image...ey/psycho3.jpg

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

That's all well and good, except that, in the most recent example posted, there aren't two people in the shot. There's only one person.

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/image...ey/psycho4.jpg

Do you have examples of Hitchcock framing single-person shots with this much empty headroom?

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

Sorry. To clarify, in 3 of those shots it looks like Stewart is the focus of the shot, not Novak, because Stewart is speaking, or at the very least the focus is split between both of them and Hitch frames to fit both of them. The Psycho shot being referenced, as has been mentioned, Janet Leigh is the speaker/focus.

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

Sure do.

http://a.imageshack.us/img412/1274/v...adroom2.th.jpg
http://a.imageshack.us/img153/1981/v...adroom3.th.jpg
http://a.imageshack.us/img811/3237/v...adroom4.th.jpg
http://a.imageshack.us/img808/2074/v...eadroom.th.jpg

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

UK dvdbeaver review: http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare6/psycho.htm

should be the same disc right?

Re: Psycho 50th Anniversary BD
 

I hope so. This looks awesome.