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Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
From AVS Forum:
Transparent Audio engineer says HDMI 1.4 is 'overtaxed,' 'complicated' and confuses customers in to thinking they need to buy new cables. "The HDMI 1.4 specification adds Ethernet-over-HDMI and a reverse direction audio feed called Audio Return Channel that both require an all new HDMI cable with an extra pair of signal conductors. "[These requirements] continue to use the same 19-pin HDMI connector as before, [but] consumers will have to buy all new HDMI 1.4 cables and components just to get Ethernet and audio return connectivity through their HDMI cables when they already can get these functions with existing Ethernet and audio cables." Clark says HDMI 1.4 will do nothing but confuse people into thinking they need to go out and buy new cables when they don't need them, adding that the most frustrating part about the new spec is that it may negatively affect HDMI's primary responsibilities of audio and video signal transmission. "The decision by HDMI.org to include Ethernet and the audio return channel in the HDMI cable just does not make sense to us since these are secondary functions and inexpensive Ethernet and the audio cables already exist, " Clark points out. "We are even more concerned that running an Ethernet signal side-by-side with the primary HDMI audio and video signals may actually degrade the resulting picture and sound quality because of signal crosstalk. For these reasons, Transparent is not planning to build HDMI 1.4 cables with the additional signal conductors necessary for Ethernet and Audio Return. |
Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
I still have no idea WTF 1.3 and 1.4 do. I just like HDMI because it's one small cable vs 5. So....umm, yeah.
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Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
Originally Posted by Lemmy
(Post 10012447)
what he said
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Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
The idea that I would upgrade my Pioneer Elite receiver for this 1.4 nonsense is ludicrous. I also have no flipping idea what 1.4 does, the only thing I care about is that my receiver decodes the lossless audio formats and displays and upscales video efficiently to 1080p.
Trying to explain this to someone who doesn't care at all about advanced audio/video is insane. I can't believe they believe adding more barriers to acceptance is a great idea instead of working to standardize everything. |
Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
Imagine that, a new specification/format that confuses consumers :rolleyes:
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Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
(Post 10012373)
I still have no idea WTF 1.3 and 1.4 do. I just like HDMI because it's one small cable vs 5. So....umm, yeah.
Version 1.3 HDMI 1.3 was released June 22, 2006 and increased the single-link bandwidth to 340*MHz (10.2*Gbit/s). It optionally supports Deep Color, with 30-bit, 36-bit, and 48-bit xvYCC, sRGB, or YCbCr, compared to 24-bit sRGB or YCbCr in previous HDMI versions. It also optionally supports output of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio streams for external decoding by AV receivers. It incorporates automatic audio syncing (audio video sync) capability. It defined cable Categories 1 and 2, with Category 1 cable being tested up to 74.25 MHz and Category 2 being tested up to 340 MHz. It also added the new Type C Mini connector for portable devices. HDMI 1.3a was released on November 10, 2006 and had Cable and Sink modifications for Type C, source termination recommendations, and removed undershoot and maximum rise/fall time limits. It also changed CEC capacitance limits, clarified sRGB video quantization range, and CEC commands for timer control were brought back in an altered form, with audio control commands added. It also added support for optionally streaming SACD in its bitstream DST format rather than uncompressed raw DSD like from HDMI 1.2 onwards. HDMI 1.3b, 1.3b1 and 1.3c were released on March 26, 2007, November 9, 2007, and August 25, 2008 respectively. They do not introduce differences on HDMI features, functions, or performance, but only describe testing for products based on the HDMI 1.3a specification regarding HDMI compliance (1.3b), the HDMI Type C Mini connector (1.3b1), and active HDMI cables (1.3c). Version 1.4 HDMI 1.4 was released on May 28, 2009, and Silicon Image expects their first HDMI 1.4 products to sample in the second half of 2009. HDMI 1.4 increases the maximum resolution to 4K × 2K (3840×2160p at 24Hz/25Hz/30Hz and 4096×2160p at 24Hz, which is a resolution used with digital theaters); an HDMI Ethernet Channel, which allows for a 100 Mb/s Ethernet connection between the two HDMI connected devices; and introduces an Audio Return Channel, 3D Over HDMI (HDMI 1.3 devices will only support this for 1080i), a new Micro HDMI Connector, expanded support for color spaces, and an Automotive Connection System. HDMI 1.4 supports several stereoscopic 3D formats including field alternative (interlaced), frame alternative, frame packing (top-bottom full), line alternative, side-by-side half, side-by-side full, 2D + depth, and 2D + depth + graphics + graphics depth, with additional top/bottom formats to be added in version 1.4a . HDMI 1.4 requires that 3D displays support the frame packing 3D formats at either 720p50 and 1080p24 or 720p60 and 1080p24. High Speed HDMI 1.3 cables can support all HDMI 1.4 features except for the HDMI Ethernet Channel. World's first HDMI 1.4 cable released by Cablesson on June 22, 2009: Spoiler:
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Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
Uh huh...and that means what?
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Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
Do we Need HDMI 1.3 or HDMI 1.4 for Stereoscopic 3D Support With the first wave of new 3D-ready hardware getting ready to hit us anytime now a lot of people seem to have doubts if they should get to be first in the line or wait until the summer to see how will things work out with more hardware available. One of the major concerns people are currently having is regarding HDMI 1.3 and HDMI 1.4 specifications and should they wait more to get hardware supporting the new specs or go for the first available devices that all seem to have 1.3 hardware. For example the new C7000 line of Samsung 3D-ready HDTVs or the new Blu-ray 3D players from Sony that seem to have HDMI 1.3 support. We know that HDMI 1.3 can be used to transport stereo 3D content, but since there is not standardization for it everyone can have different approach that will offer support for hardware coming from just one brand. In HDMI 1.4 specifications the stereoscopic 3D support has been standardized meaning that all hardware using it should be able to communicate with each other so you will not have to stick just to one brand of hardware producer to ensure compatibility… This brings me to the case of PlayStation 3 console with HDMI 1.3 that is expected to receive a software update to bring stereoscopic 3D support. We’ve already got confirmation that the software update for the console will add support for the S3D features from HDMI 1.4 specifications as this is possible to be done with just a software update. Of course adding all the new features introduced with 1.4 specifications of HDMI is not possible with just a simple software update, but in the case of stereoscopic 3D support it can be done so that the different brands of 3D-ready TVs should be able to understand that the console is sending them 3D content and display it accordingly. That is of course if these new TV sets use HDMI 1.4 or at least also have their software updated so that the HDMI 1.3 hardware will be able to “understand” the Stereoscopic 3D part of 1.4 specifications. So this brings things back to new 3D-ready hardware being equipped with HDMI 1.3 specifications, which means that these can be using the older specifications hardware, but with software that can accept and interpret S3D content coming from HDMI 1.4 or other updated 1.3 devices. However don’t mistake that all of the new 3D-ready hardware will follow the path that Sony did decide on for the PlayStation 3 console to make it stereo 3D compatible with just a firmware update. It is possible that some hardware producers will stick to normal HDMI 1.3 specifications and use some other sort of processing for the S3D content,something that is still Ok, but will limit general compatibility with other hardware from other brands. So in the end it will not hurt to be extra careful if you want to be one of the earliest adopters of the new line of 3D compatible hardware as this might as well turn out to be quite an expensive experiment for you. CES News: Interview with Steve Venuti, the President of HDMI Licensing Neil Schneider from MTBS3D.com is at CES 2010 and is already providing us with some very interesting information, even before CES 2010 has officially started. In the video above Neil interviews Steve Venuti, the President of HDMI Licensing with the main focus being the Stereoscopic 3D features and use of the new HDMI 1.4 specifications. There is also some very interesting information regarding the PlayStation 3 game console and its upcoming S3D support that should be added later this year with a firmware update. It seems that this software upgrade for the console will allow it to achieve some of the HDMI 1.4 functionality like stereoscopic 3D support, but the console will not have all of the new 1.4 specifications available, because the Ethernet Channel for instance requires not only new software, but also new hardware. Still we now know that Sony will be adding stereoscopic 3D support by software upgrading its HDMI to 1.4, so when buying a new 3D TV for PS3 you should also look for HDMI 1.4 support available on the TV. What is not yet clear however is if the PS3 will be able to provide 1080p stereoscopic 3D support or it will stock to 720p when playing in S3D mode, but we might as well very soon find out if Sony is going to announce more details about that on CES. |
Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
Originally Posted by Lemmy
(Post 10013066)
I'm sorry...but can't we get the gist in less than a novel-length read? A sentence or two, no more. Otherwise, I'm really too lazy to care. I have 1.3 (though I didn't know that until I opened this thread), and I don't know if I'll care about the "latest".
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Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
1) Basically 1.4 added a new ethernet channel that is intended to allow you to ditch an ethernet cable from your system. Some argue that this could cause interference in the sending of audio and video via hdmi. Too many eggs in one basket.
2) But the only thing consumers care about right now is 3D. You do not need hdmi 1.4 for 3D because 1.3 equipment can be upgraded to 3D. However, 1.4 have chips with greater bandwidth than what 1.3 chips have available. So dual 1080p 3D requires hdmi 1.4 whereas dual 720p 3D (the standard for 3D onsole gaming) only needs hdmi 1.3 (and a firmware upgrade). Presumaby a firmware upgrade to hdmi 1.3 is all that's needed for dual 1080i 3D. 3) Hdmi 1.4 can stream 2K and 4K video resolutions (the standards for digital cinema). I ignored a lot of facts but I hope that summary made it all clearer. |
Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
So no 1080p 3D on a 1.3 system, correct?
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Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
I foolishly though that anything with an HDMI input would do everything. It took some edumacation of my brain to learn a little about what I needed just to have 1.3 capability. In the last few years I've gone from being an early adopter to someone who dreads the new technologies. Just as you buy something you have what? 2 years? before it seems to be outdated. :wtf:
I've already been through beta, VHS, VHS-c, reel to reel, 8 mm tape, DVT, 16 mm home movies, LP's 45's, 8 track, cassette, CD, SACD, DVD, DVD-a, DIVX, HD DVD. :suicide: |
Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
(Post 10013177)
So no 1080p 3D on a 1.3 system, correct?
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Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
(Post 10013177)
So no 1080p 3D on a 1.3 system, correct?
The chips on 1.3 BD players can't generate two 1080p signals at the same time. But from what I understood, 1.3 can pass the two 1080p signals if a 1.4 device at the begining of the chain already generated the signal. 1.4 BD player ---> 1.3 receiver ---> 1.3 TV = dual 1080p 3D So you only need a 1.4 BD player (and the glasses) if you want 1080p 3D. |
Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
My head hurts.
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Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
I'm lost
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Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
If you want 1080p 3D, you need at the very least a 1.4 BD player. Everything else can be 1.3 spec.
If you want 1080i 3D or 720p 3D, hdmi 1.3 is all you need. |
Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
What about 3D HDTV. Is that required?
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Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
The funny thing is, you know that half of the people who have blu-ray players and other HD equipment probably have it connected to their television through the composite video jack.
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Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
Originally Posted by iNCREDiPiNOY
(Post 10013238)
What about 3D HDTV. Is that required?
Your hdmi cables don't need to be 1.4 compliant unless you want to pass an ethernet signal (or use a few other 1.4 only features) as well. Your receiver can presumably still be 1.3 because all it needs to do is extract the audio stream and pass the two video streams. Your 3D HDTV can be of the 1.3 variety and still do 1080p 3D. The only requirement for 1080p 3D thus far seems to be an hdmi 1.4 compliant BD player. |
Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
That can't be right. The PS3 isn't HDMI 1.4 compliant but Sony has said it's going to be 3D capable this summer.
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Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
Originally Posted by Suprmallet
(Post 10013428)
That can't be right. The PS3 isn't HDMI 1.4 compliant but Sony has said it's going to be 3D capable this summer.
fitprod |
Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
Originally Posted by fitprod
(Post 10013435)
It will be 3d capable but will only output 1080i 3D, it will not be full 1080p 3D.
fitprod They could try alternating a 1080p/1080i stream (which I see as highly unlikely given how slowly currently existing sets switch between resolutions) but that's not likely as they haven't even truly ironed out dual 1080p just yet. The only thing that has been figured out 100% is how to do dual 720p 3D. That's why the PS3 is currently scheduled for two 3D firmware updates. The first is exclusively for games and will enable dual 720p 3D. Later on the PS3 will receive a firmware update to enable 3D for movies. At this time it's believed to be for dual 1080i 3D but the actual implementation is currently unknown. |
Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
wait wait wait...
so what you're trying to say is that you kicked me out of the band because I'm a shitty drummer... because I only have one arm. |
Re: Why HDMI 1.4 Doesn't Make Sense
Originally Posted by SomethingMore
(Post 10013531)
wait wait wait...
so what you're trying to say is that you kicked me out of the band because I'm a shitty drummer... because I only have one arm. What the hell are you on? And can I have some? |
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