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Blu-ray double dips for Special Editions?

Old 03-02-09, 04:22 PM
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Blu-ray double dips for Special Editions?

I'm pretty new to BD. I got my player and started buying discs late last year.
I was a big time collector of SD and I really got used to the patterns of releases. When a big time movie came out without the amount of extras you would expect, you almost always knew it was just to rush out the release and that a SE was coming. In fact, there were many times when the word got out BEFORE the original release that a SE would be coming and you could decide whether to hold out or not.

BD seems to be a whole different beast. I mean, how many re-releases have there been? In the first half of 2009, how many SE BDs will be released? Something like 1 (meaning a new dvd of an already existing bd)? Sales aren't good, the economy isn't good, the transfers are all over the place, the prices still seem too high (especially for catalog titles), etc. I guess I'm saying BD seems a lot more unpredicatable in every way...certainly at this point.

This is all pertaining to two releases that I am considering, but both I've heard are very light in supplemental material and in one review already out, the reviewer basically states that this release "screams" SE in the future. Now, is that him editorializing, because I just don't see any pattern in BD releases like SD releases where you can feel confident that studios are going to revisit a BD release for SE treatment any time soon (soon being, say, within a year)?

The two titles are "Milk" and "The Wrestler" and I've heard many complaints that both highly anticipated releases are VERY weak on bonus features. But, while I'm sure SE's may happen one day, in the world of BD, is it even close to the certainty that it used to be with SD releases for so many years?

Depending on the title and how badly I wanted it (and the price), I don't mind waiting, but the loaded SD SE usually came out relatively soon. If "Milk" and "The Wrestler" might very well get loaded editions in 2 or 3 years or maybe longer or even never, then I guess I'll just enjoy them for the audio and video, but these two seem like prime examples of the kind of BD that would warrant SEs. I just don't know if counting on that in the world of Blu-ray is the same as it used to be with SD.

Anyone have any opinions?
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Old 03-02-09, 04:25 PM
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Re: Blu-ray double dips for Special Editions?

Wow...long post.

I can tell you off the bat the Blu-ray of Milk has put the deleted scenes on BD-Live where on the DVD they are, well, on the DVD. As for a re-release in the future - who knows.
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Old 03-02-09, 08:47 PM
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Re: Blu-ray double dips for Special Editions?

Originally Posted by dolphinboy View Post
I'm pretty new to BD. I got my player and started buying discs late last year.

The two titles are "Milk" and "The Wrestler" and I've heard many complaints that both highly anticipated releases are VERY weak on bonus features. But, while I'm sure SE's may happen one day, in the world of BD, is it even close to the certainty that it used to be with SD releases for so many years?
I am fairly confident there will not be double-dips of those movies on Blu-ray for several years. If they had not been nominated for Academy awards, there was a strong chance they would not have gotten a BD release at all. The studios have limited "slots" for how many titles they will release on Blu-ray within a given quarter at this point and only slam dunk catalog sellers even get the chance to be considered for a double-dip.
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Old 03-02-09, 09:14 PM
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Re: Blu-ray double dips for Special Editions?

Yep, In Bruges didn't get released in the US. That was before the nominations were announced though.

I don't know which titles you're looking at, but bear in mind that when BD was new, they only had MPEG-2 for video and PCM for lossless audio. Combined with the capacity to only do 25GB discs, there wasn't much room for extras. Even when that changed, Fox would still release some titles that dropped extras, and part of the reason is because some of them were prepared when those limitations were in place. (They were also just holding them back to be stingy, but that's not the only reason.) Due to their hiatus because of the copy protection being broken, some of those prepared titles were still being released many months later (like Predator, for instance).
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Old 03-02-09, 11:59 PM
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Re: Blu-ray double dips for Special Editions?

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
I am fairly confident there will not be double-dips of those movies on Blu-ray for several years. If they had not been nominated for Academy awards, there was a strong chance they would not have gotten a BD release at all. The studios have limited "slots" for how many titles they will release on Blu-ray within a given quarter at this point and only slam dunk catalog sellers even get the chance to be considered for a double-dip.
That's what I was thinking based on my observations so far.

Considering the release patterns, it just didn't make sense to me that they'd be planning already (like SD did ALL the time) Special Editions and just rushing those discs out now.

I mean, with limited sales still, I just can't see any benefit for them to re-release "Milk" or "The Wrestler" as Special Editions anytime in the near or even fairly distant future. I mean, how many copies would they sell? They probably don't sell that many copies of movies like that now and make it up with the bigger hit movie releases and popular catalog titles.

Thanks everyone for your answers and thoughts.
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Old 03-03-09, 12:27 AM
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Re: Blu-ray double dips for Special Editions?

Casino Royale and the upcoming No Country For Old Men and Terminator 2: Judgment Day are the only three titles I can think of that got double-dipped as Special Editions on BD. There are also technically two versions of The Fifth Element, one with terrible picture quality and one with far-improved video, and Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines, with 1080i/1080p video, but by now you shouldn't run much risk of finding the old discs in stores.

I don't know about The Wrestler (Fox has been a lot better at doing their 2-discs and 1-discs simultaneously), but I feel fairly confident that Milk will follow a similar pattern to Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and Brokeback Mountain in that while it's arrived now with a paltry 1-disc set, a 2-disc deluxe edition is not far off.
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Old 03-03-09, 12:52 AM
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Re: Blu-ray double dips for Special Editions?

studios will continue to Milk you for all the money you have by Wrestling it away from you with double dips
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Old 03-03-09, 12:54 AM
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Re: Blu-ray double dips for Special Editions?

Originally Posted by droidguy1119 View Post
Casino Royale and the upcoming No Country For Old Men and Terminator 2: Judgment Day are the only three titles I can think of that got double-dipped as Special Editions on BD. There are also technically two versions of The Fifth Element, one with terrible picture quality and one with far-improved video, and Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines, with 1080i/1080p video, but by now you shouldn't run much risk of finding the old discs in stores.

I don't know about The Wrestler (Fox has been a lot better at doing their 2-discs and 1-discs simultaneously), but I feel fairly confident that Milk will follow a similar pattern to Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and Brokeback Mountain in that while it's arrived now with a paltry 1-disc set, a 2-disc deluxe edition is not far off.
What do you know about Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, that I don't? It's one of my favorite movies, but I haven't heard anything about it being released or scheduled for release.

I'm gonna grab Milk and The Wrestler, because I just don't share with you that same believe that specials are in the cards. 2 years out...who knows? But I'll worry about that then.

Oh, and, while I have no idea why, Stranger than Fiction was released twice also.
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Old 03-03-09, 08:28 AM
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Re: Blu-ray double dips for Special Editions?

Originally Posted by droidguy1119 View Post
Casino Royale and the upcoming No Country For Old Men and Terminator 2: Judgment Day are the only three titles I can think of that got double-dipped as Special Editions on BD.
Don't forget about Full Metal Jacket....
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Old 03-03-09, 08:48 AM
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Re: Blu-ray double dips for Special Editions?

Stranger Than Fiction also.....
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Old 03-03-09, 09:15 AM
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Re: Blu-ray double dips for Special Editions?

It was no different though in the early days of SD. It was really a fight just to get titles released for the long term health of the format. Then after a while the double dips started. But it is still early and although there are a few titles that need better transfers, I don't think you'll see the 6 month window on SE's for quite some time. Also in the case of SD's, original releases were often non-anamorphic, Dolby 2.0 or stereo sound with no features. I have a few BD's that are crap by Blu-ray standards but are still superior to their SD counterparts. Putting out a reference quality disc like Casino Royale then re-releasing an SE the following year is a tough bet. No one needs a better transfer so they have to hope enough people want the extras to upgrade or newcomers will prefer the loaded disc for a few dollars more.
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Old 03-03-09, 09:38 AM
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Re: Blu-ray double dips for Special Editions?

I don't care as much about extras as I used to, unless it's something for a film I really love. As long as the audio/video are the same, I'm fine with the initial release.

I will defend the Casino Royale double-dip though. The original was a PCM mix, 16-bit. They went back and did a new TrueHD mix, 24-bit. I compared both, and definitely prefer the TrueHD to the PCM. The biggest differences were the dialogue. It sounded much clearer and fuller than on the previous disc. Also, during the opening credits, the song by Chris Cornell sounded better to me.
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Old 03-03-09, 09:52 AM
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Re: Blu-ray double dips for Special Editions?

Originally Posted by GizmoDVD View Post
Wow...long post.

I can tell you off the bat the Blu-ray of Milk has put the deleted scenes on BD-Live where on the DVD they are, well, on the DVD. As for a re-release in the future - who knows.

well... no sale for the blu - will buy this on DVD instead.

I betcha that when E.T. gets released on blu - they'll do the same shit, put the deleted scenes only accesible via BD-Live
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Old 03-03-09, 09:53 AM
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Re: Blu-ray double dips for Special Editions?

Originally Posted by musick View Post
studios will continue to Milk you for all the money you have by Wrestling it away from you with double dips





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Old 03-03-09, 10:15 AM
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Re: Blu-ray double dips for Special Editions?

Originally Posted by musick View Post
studios will continue to Milk you for all the money you have by Wrestling it away from you with double dips

Well that's gay
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Old 03-03-09, 12:24 PM
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Re: Blu-ray double dips for Special Editions?

Originally Posted by Giles View Post
well... no sale for the blu - will buy this on DVD instead.

I betcha that when E.T. gets released on blu - they'll do the same shit, put the deleted scenes only accesible via BD-Live
Bad example....you can only view the E.T. deleted scenes as part of a documentary on the DVD...and that is only some of them, briefly, while they are being commented on over top of them....
Only way they were viewable separate is way back on laserdisc....

We may not see any Spielberg deleted scenes, as he has a very funny view of them it seems....he has stated a disdain for them in the past, and not put them on the majority of his releases, but yet there were some on Jaws, CEOT3K, and The Lost World....
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Old 03-03-09, 01:49 PM
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Re: Blu-ray double dips for Special Editions?

Originally Posted by dolphinboy View Post
What do you know about Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, that I don't? It's one of my favorite movies, but I haven't heard anything about it being released or scheduled for release.
First (09/28/04): http://www.amazon.com/Eternal-Sunshi...6109721&sr=8-1
Second (01/04/05): http://www.amazon.com/Eternal-Sunshi...6109721&sr=8-3

FYI, when the title popped up on HD-DVD, it had all the extras of the 2-disc.

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Old 03-03-09, 02:27 PM
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Re: Blu-ray double dips for Special Editions?

Originally Posted by WMAangel View Post
Bad example....you can only view the E.T. deleted scenes as part of a documentary on the DVD...and that is only some of them, briefly, while they are being commented on over top of them....
Only way they were viewable separate is way back on laserdisc....

We may not see any Spielberg deleted scenes, as he has a very funny view of them it seems....he has stated a disdain for them in the past, and not put them on the majority of his releases, but yet there were some on Jaws, CEOT3K, and The Lost World....
yup, own the LD - check!

Jaws deleted scenes were in the documentary

CE3K's deleted scenes were on the DVD's Special Edition, but not on the Criterion laserdisc, or as I understand it, neither on the bluray edition.

some of 'The Lost World' footage wound up in the slightly expanded tv cut of the film.
.
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Old 03-03-09, 08:29 PM
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Re: Blu-ray double dips for Special Editions?

Originally Posted by Giles View Post
yup, own the LD - check!
You sir, are quite lucky! I wish I had me an E.T. laserdisc......

Originally Posted by Giles View Post
Jaws deleted scenes were in the documentary
Do you mean on laser? They are viewable separately on the DVD, both the original one disc release, and the later two discer.....

Originally Posted by Giles View Post
CE3K's deleted scenes were on the DVD's Special Edition, but not on the Criterion laserdisc, or as I understand it, neither on the bluray edition.
Nope, they are there on the Blu-ray, second disc....

Originally Posted by Giles View Post
some of 'The Lost World' footage wound up in the slightly expanded tv cut of the film.
.
Hmmm, never saw that, but I wouldn't have since I never watch any films on TV anyway...I just remember watching the deleted scenes on the DVD, and wishing there had been some on Jurassic Park....
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