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Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

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Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

Old 12-20-08, 06:21 PM
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Buffy or Angel on Bluray?

Buffy the vampire slayer and Angel are one of my favorite shows of all time. Has there been any news of a Bluray release of either shows? It would definitely be a day one purchase for me
Old 12-20-08, 06:24 PM
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Old 12-20-08, 06:27 PM
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Despite owning both box sets, I would gladly double dip for the Blu.

I'm pretty sure there is not even a rumor, of a rumored release for these though
Old 12-20-08, 09:18 PM
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I would only double dip for these if the improvement was pretty big, with significantly better video and audio as well as, ehem, better extras.

I love my sets though and frankly I don't see these as receiving really nice Blu-ray treatments. But if they do (and sell for around the same price as the sets -- well, maybe a bit more) then I will consider it.
Old 12-20-08, 09:41 PM
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Could the blu version be much better? Buffy on DVD is still pretty grainy and didn't they use 4:3 for the aspect ratio? I still love watching Buffy in the up converting DVD player, but it isn't much improvement like when you see movies and other shows.
Old 12-20-08, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by s}{ammer
Could the blu version be much better? Buffy on DVD is still pretty grainy and didn't they use 4:3 for the aspect ratio?
While the first two seasons have never aired in widescreen, clips from them incorporated into later episodes do show additional information on the left and right of the frame.

I don't know how many seasons were produced in high definition, though, and it's a safe bet that any shots with digital effects will be upconverted...same as Firefly.
Old 12-20-08, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Adam Tyner
While the first two seasons have never aired in widescreen, clips from them incorporated into later episodes do show additional information on the left and right of the frame.

I don't know how many seasons were produced in high definition, though, and it's a safe bet that any shots with digital effects will be upconverted...same as Firefly.
I started looking for info before you replied, but here is something I found. I had seen this posted on dvdtalk a long time ago, it's a response from Whedon himself.

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Buf...ire-Slayer/414

Also, I checked and all 7 seasons I have on dvd list the aspect ratio as 1.33 so I don't know if they ever switched the way they recorded Buffy. I do know, as you stated, the first two seasons looked different, much more grainy.
Old 12-21-08, 12:48 AM
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Old 12-21-08, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by s}{ammer
Also, I checked and all 7 seasons I have on dvd list the aspect ratio as 1.33 so I don't know if they ever switched the way they recorded Buffy. I do know, as you stated, the first two seasons looked different, much more grainy.
Seasons 1 and 2 were shot on 16mm film, hence the excessive grain. while remaining seasons were shot on the standard 35mm. They weren't shot intentionally in 1.78:1, and neither were seasons 1 and 2 of ANGEL. The framing was intended to be 1.33:1, so anything on the sides of the image would be considered dead space, so things like crew equipment, edges of sets, edges of CGI effects, and even actors not supposed to be there or in a different place than where they should be for continuity, are all visible when that extra side space is revealed in widescreen versions.

Originally Posted by Adam Tyner
While the first two seasons have never aired in widescreen, clips from them incorporated into later episodes do show additional information on the left and right of the frame.
As you reviewed (except season 1 and the complete series set) all the ANGEL sets, you and others here may be interested to know that if you're curious as to what season ONE of ANGEL looks like in widescreen, check out that first season on the streaming website Hulu.com.

For whatever reason they have the first season in the same modified AR as season 2 was released on DVD!

"City Of" is very odd, because since the entire right side of the frame is simply not there, the image is shifted to the right, leaving the 'dead' space on the left side, as shown here in this screencap (I managed to download some streams):



Notice how the on-screen credit is shifted.

Here's Glenn Quinn's opening title image:



While most episodes are fine with minor exceptions being things like David Boreanaz 'miming' working out on a punching bag - sounds are heard in close-ups of him in the episode "Hero" but the bag isn't there, it's only in wide shots, and the occasional set edge, certain transitions are still 4:3 as shown here, again in the pilot:




In the episode "Expecting", there are a couple of scenes where you do see the ending of the right side frame - it literally fades into black on that side. One of those quick scenes is shown in the season 2 DVD opening credits.

Here's the example:



So I'd suggest checking out hulu for season 1 in widescreen. They don't have the other seasons, but season one DOES have the "Previously On Angel" recaps.

Last edited by Nick Martin; 12-21-08 at 01:23 AM.
Old 12-21-08, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by mhg83
Buffy the vampire slayer and Angel are one of my favorite shows of all time.
Actually, they're two of your favorite shows of all time!

Originally Posted by s}{ammer
Could the blu version be much better? Buffy on DVD is still pretty grainy and didn't they use 4:3 for the aspect ratio?
Aspect ratio is irrelevant to whether the show would look good in high-definition. There are plenty of good HD presentations of 4:3 material.

Originally Posted by Adam Tyner
I don't know how many seasons were produced in high definition, though, and it's a safe bet that any shots with digital effects will be upconverted...same as Firefly.
I suspect that will be the hitch. In addition to special effects that were rendered in SD, it's very possible that all of the post production of these shows were done in SD video. If that's the case, they would have to go back and retransfer the negatives to HD, then re-edit every episode.
Old 12-21-08, 03:14 AM
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If they do eventually release these, I hope they include the "previously on..." segments that were excised for the DVDs.

In a handful of episodes on both series, the "previously" bits transitioned directly into the new episode, so when they were cut, actual bits of the episodes were trimmed out as well.
Old 12-21-08, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh-da-man

In a handful of episodes on both series, the "previously" bits transitioned directly into the new episode, so when they were cut, actual bits of the episodes were trimmed out as well.

Damned "Over The Rainbow" from ANGEL season 2....
Old 12-21-08, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick Martin
The framing was intended to be 1.33:1, so anything on the sides of the image would be considered dead space, so things like crew equipment, edges of sets, edges of CGI effects, and even actors not supposed to be there or in a different place than where they should be for continuity, are all visible when that extra side space is revealed in widescreen versions.
You say that as though these flubs don't happen in the 4:3 versions all the time as well.

How about this boom mic that swings in and nearly hits Ivana Milicevic on the head? You don't need to open up the 16:9 mattes to see that.





Old 12-21-08, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z
You say that as though these flubs don't happen in the 4:3 versions all the time as well.

How about this boom mic that swings in and nearly hits Ivana Milicevic on the head? You don't need to open up the 16:9 mattes to see that.
You don't think that flub would be worse in the 16:9 version?

The "flubs exist in the 4:3 version" argument doesn't hold water since the 16:9 version introduces even more flubs. When shooting and editing together the show, they obviously only took into consideration the 4:3 frame. Otherwise they may have reshot a certain scene, or used a different take in editing. The example of Angel miming hitting a punching bag is a clear example of where only the 4:3 framing was taken into consideration.

It's like pointing out some flubs in T2, and then saying that because those flubs exist, the 4:3 version of that film is fine, even though additional flubs are exposed in that version.

If these shows are ever released on BD, I hope that they are release in the original intended aspect ratio for their respective seasons/episodes. I'd love to see "Once More with Feeling" in full HD WS, for example, while the rest of Buffy I'd be fine with seeing in 4:3 HD.
Old 12-21-08, 11:07 AM
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I'd settle for a regular DVD version of these episodes if they would just put LESS on a disc, opening up more data and higher resolution. I'm perfectly fine upconverting a very good quality SD DVD, because for most TV series stuff, it's good enough for me.
Old 12-21-08, 02:24 PM
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I'd consider buying both of these shows on Blu-ray but I'd want to see some significant improvement to the picture quality, audio and extras before I would double dip.
Old 12-21-08, 07:33 PM
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As someone previously said, seasons three through seven of Buffy were shot on 35mm film and would look nicer than the current dvds if transferred properly to Blu-ray. One problem is that all special effects were rendered at standard definition resolution for Buffy. A bigger problem is that all post-production work was done on video machines only at standard definition, so the finished episodes that we see on the dvds is currently the highest resolution form that exists for Buffy. It would be possible though for Fox to do with Buffy what Sony did with Seinfeld and go back to the original film elements and create a real HD master for the show.

Fox has shown a willingness to work with television properties in a marginal state for HD already, as they released Firefly on Blu-ray (a show with a much smaller following than either Buffy or Angel) with special effects that were only rendered for SD.
Old 12-21-08, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by PhantomStranger
One problem is that all special effects were rendered at standard definition resolution for Buffy. A bigger problem is that all post-production work was done on video machines only at standard definition, so the finished episodes that we see on the dvds is currently the highest resolution form that exists for Buffy. It would be possible though for Fox to do with Buffy what Sony did with Seinfeld and go back to the original film elements and create a real HD master for the show.
This is essentially what I wrote above.

Fox has shown a willingness to work with television properties in a marginal state for HD already, as they released Firefly on Blu-ray (a show with a much smaller following than either Buffy or Angel) with special effects that were only rendered for SD.
Fox did little to nothing in the way of extra work for "Firefly," which was edited in HD to begin with. All they did was port over the HD masters they already had.
Old 12-21-08, 07:56 PM
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If these shows are ever released I bet it will be in a couple of years. At least, I sorta hope so. I would like to at least finish watching my DVD sets first.
Old 12-21-08, 10:25 PM
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I'd buy Buffy on Blu, that's for sure. However, I don't think that would happen until television on Blu-ray REALLY starts to catch on.
Old 12-21-08, 10:51 PM
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I'd open my wallet and pay whatever Fox wanted for Angel or Buffy.
Old 12-22-08, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay G.
You don't think that flub would be worse in the 16:9 version?

The "flubs exist in the 4:3 version" argument doesn't hold water since the 16:9 version introduces even more flubs. When shooting and editing together the show, they obviously only took into consideration the 4:3 frame. Otherwise they may have reshot a certain scene, or used a different take in editing.
The simple fact of the matter is that Buffy was a TV production shot very quickly from week to week, and plenty of production flubs regularly happened in any version of the episodes you watch. By your logic, the preponderance of flubs in the 4:3 version proves that the show wasn't composed for 4:3 either.

I know that Joss Whedon has said that he prefers the show at 4:3. That's fine, and I respect that. But having watched both versions of Seasons 4-9, it's clear to me that his DPs were actively composing for the wider frame in most episodes, and the 4:3 versions look unnaturally cramped. I consider both versions to be legitimate.

The "OMG lookatdaflub in 16:9!!!" argument doesn't hold much water for me, given how bad the show is for flubs in 4:3 too.

The example of Angel miming hitting a punching bag is a clear example of where only the 4:3 framing was taken into consideration.
This reminds me of the scene in the Firefly pilot episode in which Alan Tudyk is grabbing and shaking empty air where the steering wheel should be. Whedon even makes fun of it in the commentary track. I don't recall anyone ever arguing that Firefly was composed for 4:3.
Old 12-22-08, 05:37 PM
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^^If you're really going there with that Buffy AR issue (the issue being that it and ANGEL seasons 1 and 2 were legitimately composed for 16:9 when so many on-screen reasons prove otherwise) then have fun. I won't waste time on it.

Just because there are issues with the 4:3 version doesn't mean it still wasn't intended to be shot and seen, aspect ratio having nothing to do with that.

However, when set edges, visual effect edges, FRAME edges (as a screencap shows) and those scene transitions don't properly extend beyond the 4:3 framing, you must be unreasonably stubborn not to think those were just simple mistakes and it's still legitimately 16:9, and that's why it's a waste of time arguing it....again.

The things revealed in the 16:9 framing are NOT mistakes, the way the things shown in the 4:3 versions are, because the 16:9 version wasn't meant to be seen that way to begin with.

I could list (and screencap) a list of reasons for ANGEL season 2 alone that prove it wasn't meant to be seen wide, but again, it would be a waste of time.
Old 12-22-08, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z
I know that Joss Whedon has said that he prefers the show at 4:3. That's fine, and I respect that.
Joss Whedon hasn't said he prefers Buffy in 4:3, he says it was intended to be in 4:3, from shooting through post-production.

But having watched both versions of Seasons 4-9, it's clear to me that his DPs were actively composing for the wider frame in most episodes, and the 4:3 versions look unnaturally cramped.
Your personal opinion doesn't factor into how the DPs actually shot the show, facts do. The facts are that the only people who've publicly commented on the intended AR for the show have all said that it was always intended to be 4:3.

I mean, it's "clear" to some people that 4:3 open-matte versions of film look better composed, and less "cramped" than their matted widescreen counterparts. The "opening the image up" argument has even surfaced for 16:9 reframing of 2.35:1 films. Making an argument about legitimacy based on personal preference is a fallacy.

I consider both versions to be legitimate.
You can prefer the 16:9 versions if you want, just like some people prefer other 16:9 reframings of films, or colorization, or re-edited versions with all the "naughty bits" taken out. However, that doesn't mean that your preferred version is in any way, shape, or form "legitimate".
Old 12-23-08, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Nick Martin
I could list (and screencap) a list of reasons for ANGEL season 2 alone that prove it wasn't meant to be seen wide, but again, it would be a waste of time.
Watch the Pylea scenes from the end of the season in both formats and then tell me you really believe they were composed for 4:3.

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