Criterion releases on Blu-Rays
#477
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Why? Because the only generation of film lovers with a particular interest in all things Criterion ends with the DVD era? This has got to be one of the biggest speculations I've read on this forum. It is both ignorant and insulting at the same time.
Unlike the hundreds of thousands of blockbusters that you see on DVD, the overwhelming majority of them being notably devalued, the Criterion collection, with a few minor exceptions, has proven to be unaffected by DVD's dramatic market decline (read: lack of appeal amongst new consumers). On the contrary, due to the fact that Criterion houses some of world cinema's greatest films it has managed to be the beacon of hope amongst a sea of struggling independent distribs. In fact, I would go as far as to claim that they have one of the most dedicated fan bases. And for you to come here and claim that its appeal isn't likely to expand as Blu-ray does is simply a very naive statement. Unless, of course, you happen to believe that your generation, whatever that age group might be, is the last one that will be interested in classic cinema.
Times change, generations change, and so do formats. There will always be enough people willing to buy a Renoir film on Blu-ray. Just as there were enough people to buy Renoir films on DVD after VHS died.
Pro-B
Unlike the hundreds of thousands of blockbusters that you see on DVD, the overwhelming majority of them being notably devalued, the Criterion collection, with a few minor exceptions, has proven to be unaffected by DVD's dramatic market decline (read: lack of appeal amongst new consumers). On the contrary, due to the fact that Criterion houses some of world cinema's greatest films it has managed to be the beacon of hope amongst a sea of struggling independent distribs. In fact, I would go as far as to claim that they have one of the most dedicated fan bases. And for you to come here and claim that its appeal isn't likely to expand as Blu-ray does is simply a very naive statement. Unless, of course, you happen to believe that your generation, whatever that age group might be, is the last one that will be interested in classic cinema.
Times change, generations change, and so do formats. There will always be enough people willing to buy a Renoir film on Blu-ray. Just as there were enough people to buy Renoir films on DVD after VHS died.
Pro-B
Last edited by MBoyd; 11-25-08 at 07:29 AM. Reason: Deleted my asshole male menopausal posting.
#478
Pro-B, one minute he'll be criticizing Criterion. Stating that nearly every Criterion DVD release has a better alternate version overseas then the next he'll be championing them as the beacon of hope amongst a sea of struggling independent distribs.
#479
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LOL I said "AT THIS POINT." Criterion has a group of dedicated buyers (I'm one of them) that buy on DVD and many (including myself) are happy to move to Blu Ray - that's why the numbering is the way it is, which is what the original discussion was about. I don't see someone buying a PS3 and decide to exclusively begin collecting Criterion Blu Rays and not their DVDs whether they are a serious film fan or not.
I am simply appalled that some of you continue to believe that Blu-ray is a format where age and film-preference stereotypes are the two norms. I don't know if you are fluent in a language other than English but if you are take a look at some of the other big forums. The PS3 is being used by plenty of non-gamers.
Pro-B
Last edited by pro-bassoonist; 11-25-08 at 02:24 AM.
#480
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A better alternative does not necessarily equate significant improvement. Take for example window-boxing. I've seen you participate in threads where the issue is being addressed. And you know that people are split on it. For some it is worth avoiding Criterion's SDVDs because of it, for others it isn't. The same goes for the color-timings on their Studio Canal releases. Add to the mix their Fellini discs, etc.
And yes, regardless of their past record, they remain the most respected independent distributor for a reason. They also offer a variety of world cinema titles which no other independent distrib could match. Most importantly, they have always been willing to evolve. As you could see, there are plenty of reasons why one would want to champion them.
Take care,
Pro-B
#481
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There is a whole new generation of film enthusiasts out there and while you and I may not fully understand their interest in cinema, or gaming, to pretend that they do not exist and won't be willing to collect the films you and I apparently like is quite naive.
Pro-B
Pro-B
My whole explanation for the numbering system was that Criterion is keeping the numbering because of the current collectors. It makes them happy.
How do you feel about the numbering? Because that's how this whole thing started.
You can't possibly think ALL Criterions (in print) will ever be re-released in Blu. The future film enthusiast may at some point have to track down some standard def DVDs.
#482
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I'm not going fight. Maybe I flew off the handle. We'll leave it at that. But I agree with this statement. Yes at "some point" new film enthusiasts will be purchasing the blu rays only. We aren't there yet. But yes message boards like this and your postings can only help get the word out there about these great titles.
I really do not want to rewind and go back into old arguments but for once we can have it right (I mean it from the bottom of my heart). I know there are a lot of people on this forum who dislike me and believe that I have/had different motives to be so passionate about what is happening now and where we could head but suffice to say this is a once in a life time opportunity. Some of the kids probably do not realize it because it all happened for them so easily - with DVD the road was very clear and it could only get better.
Have a good week,
Pro-B
Last edited by pro-bassoonist; 11-25-08 at 04:36 AM.
#483
DVD Talk Legend
Pro-B, you think that people who didn't buy Criterion DVDs are going to buy their BDs? Why? I could understand if they're just now starting to buy movies on any format, but not if they're DVD veterans. Why would Criterion's titles suddenly appeal to them now because they're on BD? Is it because they have the chance to collect them all now, whereas they missed that chance on DVD?
As for the numbering, it's insignificant to me, but they should have had new numbers if any. It was a separate collection on DVD from laserdisc, so why not start a new one on BD? I don't think many mix their BDs with their DVDs anyway.
As for the numbering, it's insignificant to me, but they should have had new numbers if any. It was a separate collection on DVD from laserdisc, so why not start a new one on BD? I don't think many mix their BDs with their DVDs anyway.
#484
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DVD has achieved wonders in penetration and titles. Never would have imagined that in the early 90s in my wildest dreams. Maybe the ball was dropped sometimes on the source material, but overall I can't complain too much.
Blu Ray is a chance to get it right, but I'm afraid it will always be something. (DNR? 16x9?) I have faith in Criterion though and I'm happy to buy there offerings whenever they interest me. I'm showing my support by buying all the first releases. I have a couple already on DVD. Don't care for Bottle Rocket though I enjoy all other Wes Anderson films. And I'm not crazy about the aspect ratio revisionism of Last Emperor. And I like Wong Kar Wai's films (except Blueberry Nights) and I'm buying Chungking Express blind. I know I will love it.
And yes spine numbers I can take or leave. I regularly cull my non Criterion collection and pass off doubles to some of my best friends who aren't as enthusiastic about presentation as I am. For some reason though I never can get rid of Criterion doubles to anyone and just leave them next to the new edition. I don't even have close to all of them. Maybe around 160. Anyway, maybe that's why I am comfortable placing the Blu's next to my existing DVDs in this case.
Whatever path Criterion was going to choose with their Blu releases someone was bound to get upset. Plastic cases vs cardboard. New numbers vs old numbers vs no numbers. Just glad we have the movies.
#485
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Not to open this can of worms (and I don't even care for The Last Emperor, personally), but I've often wondered if it's worth having Storaro's signature on the box if it means we lose 17% of the picture and the original framing intent. At what point is "Cinematographer-approved transfer" not a good thing?
Yes, you will. My second-favourite of his and I'm jealous that you get to see it with fresh eyes in HD.
Yes, you will. My second-favourite of his and I'm jealous that you get to see it with fresh eyes in HD.
#486
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Honestly...? That's what it is in my case. I own a handful of Criterion DVDs, but I rented many, many, many more than I actually bought. I do plan on collecting all of the BDs, though.
#487
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The entire numbering deal isn't the issue I have with it. I couldn't care less about the numbering itself since I'm not one of those rabid collector's that's gotta have em all. The issue I do have with not starting a new BR collection from #1 and on is the message it sends with them doing it this way without the numbering. For the leap from LD to DVD, they started over since it was two different forms of media. They showed faith in the DVD format to start over, and customers noticed that, it meant a great deal when Criterion did that. To me it just sucks, especially right now while BR is still trying to get a hold on the market for the long term, that Criterion didn't stand up and make the same stand once again, sending the message that BR is here to stay for this generation.
Like I said before though, these first few batches are likely just a trial run, and once it's more obvious that BR is here to stay they'll more than likely start over at #1, no matter if they say otherwise right now. I just wish they had done it already, just to make a statement that they're in it for the long haul.
Like I said before though, these first few batches are likely just a trial run, and once it's more obvious that BR is here to stay they'll more than likely start over at #1, no matter if they say otherwise right now. I just wish they had done it already, just to make a statement that they're in it for the long haul.
#488
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For the leap from LD to DVD, they started over since it was two different forms of media. They showed faith in the DVD format to start over, and customers noticed that, it meant a great deal when Criterion did that. To me it just sucks, especially right now while BR is still trying to get a hold on the market for the long term, that Criterion didn't stand up and make the same stand once again, sending the message that BR is here to stay for this generation.
[/rant]
#489
Suspended
Just canceled my "Man Who Feel to Earth" pre-order from Amazon. Just Bottle Rocket for me in these crappy cases. Not spending $27 on a blind-buy in a cheap 1999 case.
#490
Suspended
Criterion is now renting films from their website which can be streamed. $5 and you could apply that to the purchase of the DVD and BD.
http://gizmodo.com/5098608/new-crite...film-festivals
http://gizmodo.com/5098608/new-crite...film-festivals
#491
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#492
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Can someone kindly direct me to the Criterion forum. I did a search for Criterion, but can't seem to locate it. Thanks in advance.
http://www.criterionforum.org/
Last edited by Grubert; 11-25-08 at 10:45 AM.
#494
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Criterion is now renting films from their website which can be streamed. $5 and you could apply that to the purchase of the DVD and BD.
http://gizmodo.com/5098608/new-crite...film-festivals
http://gizmodo.com/5098608/new-crite...film-festivals
And hey I haven't tried it. I'm not even sure if Criterion licensing would allow streaming to me since I am in China right now. But there is an option for full screen on the streaming movies right?
#495
Luke, I see you frequent the Criterion forum all the time. And I see that you participate in the discussions there. So, you should know very well whether or not what you have written above is true. Or, whether or not it has any relevance to Criterion's Blu-ray output.
A better alternative does not necessarily equate significant improvement. Take for example window-boxing. I've seen you participate in threads where the issue is being addressed. And you know that people are split on it. For some it is worth avoiding Criterion's SDVDs because of it, for others it isn't. The same goes for the color-timings on their Studio Canal releases. Add to the mix their Fellini discs, etc.
And yes, regardless of their past record, they remain the most respected independent distributor for a reason. They also offer a variety of world cinema titles which no other independent distrib could match. Most importantly, they have always been willing to evolve. As you could see, there are plenty of reasons why one would want to champion them.
Take care,
Pro-B
A better alternative does not necessarily equate significant improvement. Take for example window-boxing. I've seen you participate in threads where the issue is being addressed. And you know that people are split on it. For some it is worth avoiding Criterion's SDVDs because of it, for others it isn't. The same goes for the color-timings on their Studio Canal releases. Add to the mix their Fellini discs, etc.
And yes, regardless of their past record, they remain the most respected independent distributor for a reason. They also offer a variety of world cinema titles which no other independent distrib could match. Most importantly, they have always been willing to evolve. As you could see, there are plenty of reasons why one would want to champion them.
Take care,
Pro-B
#497
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Cool, I think in some ways you are the ultimate optimist around here about Blu Ray. LD worked pretty well for what was available to 2% of the market. Loved the LD days. But at the time I was seeking out current foreign films and Hollywood classics. Your experience was probably different.
I have faith in Criterion though and I'm happy to buy there offerings whenever they interest me. I'm showing my support by buying all the first releases. I have a couple already on DVD. Don't care for Bottle Rocket though I enjoy all other Wes Anderson films. And I'm not crazy about the aspect ratio revisionism of Last Emperor. And I like Wong Kar Wai's films (except Blueberry Nights) and I'm buying Chungking Express blind. I know I will love it.
And yes spine numbers I can take or leave. I regularly cull my non Criterion collection and pass off doubles to some of my best friends who aren't as enthusiastic about presentation as I am. For some reason though I never can get rid of Criterion doubles to anyone and just leave them next to the new edition. I don't even have close to all of them. Maybe around 160. Anyway, maybe that's why I am comfortable placing the Blu's next to my existing DVDs in this case.
And yes spine numbers I can take or leave. I regularly cull my non Criterion collection and pass off doubles to some of my best friends who aren't as enthusiastic about presentation as I am. For some reason though I never can get rid of Criterion doubles to anyone and just leave them next to the new edition. I don't even have close to all of them. Maybe around 160. Anyway, maybe that's why I am comfortable placing the Blu's next to my existing DVDs in this case.
Pro-B
#498
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I always welcomed ambitious distributors who aspired to match Criterion's high standards. And when they outperformed them I made sure to recognize them. Masters of Cinema, RHV, and Studio Canal are great examples.
Pro-B
#499
Banned by request
That's a shame, because The Man Who Fell To Earth is light years beyond Bottle Rocket. I'm not a fan of the packaging, either, but it wouldn't stop me from owning a great movie in what I'm sure will be a great A/V presentation. I had only ordered The Man Who Fell To Earth when the discs were first announced, anyway, but if I had ordered more, I wouldn't have canceled any because of this.
#500
DVD Talk Legend
I think that a lot of these BDs will be treated as double-dips by those who already own Criterion DVDs (Drexl, I hope this answer your question). If people were willing to upgrade their earlier non-anamorphic Criterion discs (Amarcord, SALO, etc) I don't see why they wouldn't be enticed to follow the same route. Unless, of course, you believe that all Criterion collectors are only interested in SDVD. This is what I assume justified Criterion's numbering stance - the collectors would want the best presentation of a said film with the proper number on it, not the best presentation of a said film on SDVD with the proper number on it. If Criterion, and I for that matter, have misread the collectors then I am certain they would rethink their strategy. Something tells me, however, that they know very well how to read the market.
On the other hand, I have read some comments about certain kinds of movies "not needing to be in HD," such as dialogue-driven films. That could hurt Criterion a little, as some people flock to the action and sci-fi titles over human dramas or arthouse titles. I disagree with this notion, and I think that all films can benefit from HD, but I wonder if it won't be a determining factor.