applesandrice

I've been pretty stuck on the high MSRP of BD players, but I came to the following realization just the other day: Not counting ROM devices, I've never spent less than $300 on a DVD player. My first, a Toshiba, was $350; second, a Sony 300+1 disc changer, was $350-375 (can't remember exactly); my portable, a Panasonic, was $350; and my A1, bought through the Continental Airlines "One-Pass" deal, was approximately $350. So what does this tell me? Well, either I'm a complete sucker who routinely overpays for HT equipment (admittedly a distinct and highly likely possibility), or else I'm actually a lot more used to paying these "high" prices than I thought.

Still, all that doesn't change the fact that I don't have $300+ to drop on a BD player right now . . .

RichC2

That's all good and well, and it's pretty well assumed the hardware manufacturers aren't really making much now, but seeing as how it's the studios that release movies, I'd rather see how they're doing.

Nothing I've seen thus far really suggests they aren't making money on sold media. The encoding process isn't a particularly strenuous one, the HD transfers are already done for HD Broadcast and DVD Remasters, so the cost is largely in shipping, packaging, and the blu-rays themselves.

So I guess my question is, how much does it cost a studio to press and package a BD?

dobyblue

Yeah, I wouldn't expect an answer from Zyber on this that would make much sense.

The guy doesn't even know what he's talking about.

I spoke with Warner last May about The Matrix and they were thrilled that despite only moving, what was it, 30,000 copies?, that the retail was over $2,000,000 on it.

I have also spoken with SonyBMG and they are very pleased with the sales of Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds on Blu-ray. They also feel we will start to see a push towards audio releases on Blu-ray within the next year or two and say that UMG, EMI and WMG are on the same page.

That doesn't sound to me like the giant sinkhole and completely gloomy scenario that Zyber paints.

dobyblue

Do you recall that DVD took 7 years to outrent VHS by any chance?

Gizmo

Is this the same dolbyblue that claimed to work for Panasonic and that the BD50 would retail for under $599?

Looks like a certain forum isn't happy with this discussion

Gizmo

Do you recall there was no such thing as VOD like there is now? DVD was the only way to watch movies in decent quality and now there are
multiple, cheaper solutions. Totally different playground now. If I want to watch Juno I can buy the DVD, rent from Blockbuster, download from my AppleTV, rent through my Xbox 360... Blu is NOT the only choice I have.

applesandrice

Don't forget PPV . . .

Qui Gon Jim

I agree. I would also think that this site would not like the somewhat blatant redirection to "competing" websites that certain members are posting in their responses.

RoboDad

Maybe there is some kind of epidemic of long-term memory loss among the gloom-and-doomers, but the comments in that article are remarkably similar to the comments made in 1998 and early 1999 regarding DVD. And we all know how poorly that format has done.

RoboDad

Man, I'd like to know where you got such a great deal two years after the DVD format launch. Other than the bargain basement class of players (such as those from Emerson), the baseline that I found for players in 1999 was still around $300. And, like applesandrice, I have never paid less than that for a quality DVD player (other than the recent fire sale on HD DVD players).

RichC2

It was a BX (Base Exchange) sale on the Pioneer DV525. It may have been 2000 now that I think of it, I seem to confuse events from '00 and '99 a lot. A little loud, but at the time, *cough* when VCDs and SVCDs will still all the rage *cough*, it was an amazing little device... and amazingly, it still works.

RoboDad

No worries. My memory is far from perfect too. I just know that the player I bought in the summer of '99 (my third, if you can believe that!) was a Sony, and I paid somewhere around $300 for it, and that might have been on sale.

What amazes me is that I paid $750 for my first DVD player in '97, and $400 for my second player in '98, and I still hear people lamenting about paying $350 today for a BD player. Back then, the "magical" price point for a player was $500. That was what the manufacturers worked toward, even though there were VHS HiFi units available from dozens of manufacturers in the $100 range.

Josh Z

Enough with the juvenile nicknames. I would hope that most of us in this forum are adults and can have a rational conversation without name calling.

I don't know where you were in 1999, but DVD was the fastest-growing consumer electronic success in history. Everyone wanted a DVD player, which was immediately demonstrated to be a significant improvement over the previous leading format (VHS).

This is not 1999, and CE products have a much shorter window to grab market share. Blu-ray has not captured the public consciousness the way that DVD did. In the eyes of most consumers, it has not proven itself to be a significant enough improvement over what they already have (DVD). Blu-ray also faces a much greater amount of competition from downloads, VOD, and DVD itself than DVD did back in 1999, where it went virtually unchallenged (VHS was primarily a renter's medium, and there was little history of the sort of large-scale movie collecting that DVD inspired).

We're in a different world now. DVD changed all the rules for what is expected of a CE product, and Blu-ray has to live with them.

You can call me a "doom-and-gloomer" all you want, but I'm not wishing for Blu-ray's failure. Quite the contrary, I'm arguing that Blu-ray needs to fight to establish itself. This isn't a time for complacency. The window of opportunity is short for new CE products to prove their worth. If Blu-ray can't do that, and quickly, it will wind up just another failed format in the CE graveyard. That's not what I want at all.

Gizmo

Gas wasn't $4 a gallon and we were not in a recession though....

Josh Z

Yeah, and I paid $2,000 for a laserdisc player once upon a time. Those days are over. The tumbling prices of DVD players have devalued the home video hardware market. Most consumers are no longer willing to pay $500 - $1,000 for a movie format when they can get an upconverting DVD player for $50 at the local discount store. Especially not when they don't understand the difference between the two in the first place.

Consumer education initiatives and pricing adjustments are greatly needed.

BuckNaked2k

I believe my parents paid $1,000 for our first VHS player...with a wired remote!

dobyblue

I've yet to come across the mysterious "dolbyblue" that some of the less occularly talented amongst you seem to occasionally refer to.

Which of the 20+ forums that I post in do you suggest isn't happy?

The BD50 was indeed targeted for under $499 actually, but because it's made in Japan Matsushita stepped in and over-ruled Panasonic USA on the target pricing because the Yen is not performing weakly, whereas the US dollar is.

That shouldn't have taken too much thought to see.

Consumers still want name brands and those DVD players will not be on those shelves for much longer without a Blu-ray Disc symbol on them.

Personally I don't think "doom and gloomer" is a juvenile nickname at all, it's a pretty common saying. Poopy-face on the other hand....

Thomas K. Arnold has an interesting take on the events of the last 4 months.

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...9NHF/index.php

dobyblue

According to Consumer Electronics Daily there will be a Blu-ray player in Wal*Mart for less than $249 before the end of Q3.

Gizmo

:LOL: Yeah, I'm sure all stores will follow with removing easy to sell $50 DVD players in favor of $300 BR players. Now THATS funny.

I also like the $299 Funai player that some people are going nuts for. It didn't help HD DVD, but now it will for Blu?

RoboDad

1999 (specifically, late 1999) is when DVD began its explosive growth. 2000 was the first year that that growth became the subject of stunned discussion. But in 1998 and early 1999 it was still a fledgling format with limited appeal, and many articles about DVD were written with striking parallels to the one you cited about Blu-ray.

The problem with the significant improvements that DVD offered over VHS is that they didn't really become apparent to most people until they saw them in action, usually in friends' homes. That means that people actually had to know someone with a DVD player in order to "get it". And until late 1999 and 2000, most people didn't know many people who owned a DVD player.

By the end of 1999, there had still been barely five million DVD players sold. And that is after over two and a half years of the formats existence. And to further emphasize the point, nearly half (2.2 million, to be a bit more precise) of those five million players were sold in the last four months of 1999*. That is when DVD "exploded".

* US figures, based on data provided by CEA

dobyblue

Umm, this is May - you got that part right?
When people are buying HDTV's at Christmas, at least models that DON'T come with a Blu-ray player, are you going to sit there really and think that with ALL content providers releasing BLu-ray Discs that people aren't going to pick up $199 players? Any player that's $249 MSRP during Q3 will be under $199 by Christmas.

Had HD DVD hit the prices it did with all content providers releasing on the format it would have been a different story.

Try reading my post again, because you obviously skipped over every second or third word based on the opening sentence in your retort.

Who ever said they were going to replace $50 with $300 players. Are you suggesting that no-one will break the $300 barrier with their entry-level Blu-ray players over the next couple of years? You're seriously deluded. It's either that or you seem to think I suggested this is going to happen tomorrow...and there's nothing I've said that could have possibly led you to that conclusion.

Gizmo

So what is your definition of "much longer"? 2 years?

I'm on my iPhone, I'm not going to type out 5 paragraph responses.

RoboDad

Again, I read many, many nearly identical comments about DVD ten years ago. The tumbling prices of VCRs had devalued the hardware market, and DVD had no chance of growing beyond niche status, if it survived at all. Even after 2000, when the number of DVD players sold doubled over the previous year, bringing the installed base to nearly 14 million, there was still a raging debate about when (or if) DVD would achieve mainstream status.

Time will tell, I guess. I believe that things will happen over the next 6-12 months to answer these concerns.

dobyblue

...and there were also articles leading up to DVD's lauch that spelled doom and gloom too.

This is one in particular that's a great read, because the majority of talking points are the exact same ones being used today against Blu-ray Disc.

http://www.robertsdvd.com/failure.html

dobyblue

A similar time frame as DVD over VHS, as I've stated several times.

Yes consumers didn't have VOD and all that bollocks when DVD came out, but DVD players couldn't play VHS tapes, Blu-ray players can play DVD's, so one makes up for the other as far as I'm concerned.