Burnt Thru

scorched earth is a stragegem of the losing/defeated party and consequently leaves no concern to what would be left in a winning scenario.



in terms of militarily conquering a country it worked very effectively. though that was never the real issue or the real problem which is not one which i believe can be addressed through military means. but that's a tangent far outside the scope of this thread...

nmr1723

X3 isn't bad. It's just not one of my favorite HDM titles. I liked it much more than SUPERMAN RETURNS and the absolutely awful SPIDERMAN 3 (I don't want to offend anyone, I just hated this film). I LOVE X-MEN & X2. X3 was just disappointing in comparison.

I think you have a great point about the limited selection possibly causing us to buy more than usual. I don't know how many times a day I check Amazon for a drop in price or a BOGO sale. Niche or not, HDM is becoming a fun little hobby for me. It's almost caused me to upgrade my entire system...but lucky for my wallet I've resisted.

das Monkey

That's been my opinion since the beginning, and I still feel that way. Most everyone I know doesn't care about OAR, has no interest in bonus features, and even when I can demonstrate how much better HD content looks and sounds, I cannot convince them to give a damn about it. I wish it weren't true, but until the studios stop manufacturing DVDs or somehow find a way to price HDM cheaper, it's not going to catch on much past people like us. The average consumer simply does not care. I just hope it's a strong niche with a long life.

das

namja

Like some have already responded, I don't think anyone wants it to remain a niche product. I'm merely trying to explain that anything replacing DVD in the near future is just not a likely scenario. And to turn your statement around, I don't understand why it's so important to some people here to believe that HDM will overtake DVD as the mainstream format. I'm going to enjoy HDM whether it is mainstream or not. I hope it becomes mainstream, but it's just wishful thinking.


My post was not a response to your post but to the "QFT" post, which was clearly erroneous. The 21 can be explained as you did above, but your niche comment (referring to HDTV) was definitely wrong as evidenced by your quote above and by this thread title (we are discussing HDM as being niche, not HDTV). It's just a little annoying when someone replies with a "QFT" when there was little truth there.


It's not a lie. The % just broke 50%. This is a recent phenomenon. Even a few months ago, less than 50% of the HDTV owners had HD content being fed to them. Besides, subscribing to HD does not equate to watching HD. Don't be surprised if many of the HDTV owners watch the SD channels when they have HD equivalent.

namja

Unfortunately, this is reality.

Burnt Thru

is there evidence to suggest the percentage of hdtv owners viewing hd content is increasing? if so that would be interesting to see, and would suggest a very healthy future for highdef!

chanster

Sure it does, but high def physical media requires another purchase of a presently not so cheap player.

Once the players hit $200 or so then you will see greater adoption. (according to experts that is the magic number)

The question in my mind, is now with the studios (mostly) in alignment, will they demand that their CE buddies reduce prices of the players to get an installed base?? I don't know if this will ever happen, as the studios are probably happy to pump out DVDs for the masses, and charge a premium for their HDM.

cardaway

Of course not. People are hearing about the ability to view HD content from sales people, friends, and relatives and "saying that's not for me" then hooking up their VHS players to their 50" plasmas and calling it good.

But as sure as the sun will rise, the folks with the niche agenda will pop in with past numbers to show that despite the large increase in HDTV sales, very few will be hooking up HDTV conent to themn in 2008. They will also continue to state their opinion as fact. And that's OK, because somebody actually asked them to write reviews or columns for some place, thier opinion means more than anyody else.

Adam Tyner

Who's pushing an agenda? No one posting on this forum stands to gain anything if HDM fails to break through to the mainstream.

In all seriousness, you might want to take a couple days off the forum to just relax. You seem like you're on the verge of blowing a gasket.

cardaway

You should look a little closer, like others with pictures next to their names. They're much farther along that road than me.

chanster

Umm, the only way to report on numbers is to look at PAST purchases/behaviors to get statistics.

And we don't get pure numbers for Blu Ray/HD DVD sales because no one releases them because they are so low and embarrasing. All we get are indexes compared to each other, which means absolutely zero except to show which are more popular.

And furthermore, only certain reports are issued regarding HDTV consumption/use, so if you feel like running a live poll of all American households, go ahead feel free and try...

And count my dad in with someone with a 50 DLP HDTV who won't connect HD because he is happy with his Directivo, DVD, and gasp VHS!!!!

namja

I don't think we'll find any meaningful evidence, but I'm quite certain (as are probably all of us here) that the % of HDTV owners viewing HD content is increasing. Media, salespeople, and forums like this are educating people left and right that you can't watch HD content unless you have both an HDTV and a HD source. Nobody here wants HD to be in the minority, whether it be watching TV content or watching movies on disc. And everybody is aware that eventually, SD will die out and we will only have HD.

Even a couple years ago, we had limited choices when it came to TV networks broadcasting HD. Now, we have all kinds of HD choices, with Directv leading the charge. Directv now offers the following channels on HD nationally:
101, A&E, Animal Planet, Big Ten Network, Bio, Bravo, Cartoon Network, Cinemax E, Cinemax W, CMT, CNBC, CNN, CSTV, Discovery, ESPN, ESPN2, Food, Fox Business, Fuel, FX, Golf, HBO E, HBO W, HD Theater, HDNet, HDNet Movies, HGTV, History, MGM, MTV, Music HD, National Geographic, NBA, NFL, NHL, Nick, Science, SciFi, SHO, SHO 2, SHO W, Smithsonian, Speed, Spike, Starz Networks (5 channels), TBS, TMC, Tennis, TLC, TNT, Universal, USA, Versus, VH1, Weather.
Plus local ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC where available as well as regional sports networks such as Comcast, FSN, MSG, NESN, SNY, YES, etc.
(Sorry if this sounds like a shill for Directv, but they have really done a solid for the HD community).

Anyway, the point being that HD does indeed have a very bright future. With more and more HD being pumped out there, it is only inevitable that HDM will grow with it. The only thing we're disagreeing here is how quickly it will be adopted. Unless something drastic happens (see my quote of das Monkey above; and it could happen as we've seen some strange things in the HDM format war), DVDs will still dominate for years to come.

vcuram

My parents have a 55 inch LCD RP TV and a Samsung Blu-ray player (which they paid $650 for when it first came out). They don't have any HD programming through Direct TV. They buy/Netflix SD titles that are available on BD. Sometimes they buy full-screen versions. They stretch the full-screen versions, as well as TV programming. It frustrates me and my brother to no end while we're there.

Supermallet

You do realize that Adam is also a moderator, right?

And speaking of agendas, from day one you've complained about how moderators at so many forums are unfair, and continue to complain about the moderating team here. At first it was a little head scratching, then it became kind of funny, but now you sound like a broken record. I think Adam's suggestion is an excellent one, because if you continue to post in this way, it will lead to a suspension. And it's not because we have some personal agenda against you or because you're posting positively about Blu-ray, but because you're consistently derailing discussions.

cardaway

Ditto.

Gizmo

Ugh. My parents are the same way. My parents have a 70' Mitsubishi Diamond 1080p TV, receiver etc. all custom installed and hooked up (with a $300 Monster cable surge protector ) and I was the one who gave them an A2 to replace their Sony up-convertering DVD player with a few months ago. They still have no idea what HD DVD movies are, even though Ive brought them over dozens of times, and could really careless the quality of the movie, as long as it plays. This is someone with an easy 400k a year income and has no interest in HD DVD/Blu-ray as DVD is "good enough". The only reason I got them an HD DVD player was because the Sony player sucked and I was tired of saying "Well, I do have Shrek 3, but its HD DVD...not DVD so you can't watch it". This way they came come over, grab a DVD or a "red case" movie and be fine. Now I just need to get them a cheap Blu-ray player.

Interestingly enough, my 70 year old grand father was BLOWN AWAY by Planet Earth and King Kong on HD DVD during Thanksgiving that he went out and bought an A2 on ebay for $140 (with UPC and several movies) a few days later to go along with his 42' Vizio I helped him buy a few weeks beforehand. He kept saying "A Toshiba for that cheap? I must get it". Besides the free HD DVDs he got he has bought only 1 other title (The Mummy) and continues to rent DVDs from Hollywood Video and download and burn his own through torrents (I kid you not. He calls me weekly to let me know the latest movies he download!)

Supermallet

Clearly they don't need that Mits TV, so I will do you a solid and take if off their hands, free of charge!

Gizmo

I was watching it today when I was over for the Super Bowl...its VERY nice. I have to keep telling them to switch to the HD channels and not the SD ones They got the newest onefor free (well, replaced as the last one under warranty broke and it took 4 months and threats of legal action for Mits to replace it. The original cost maybe $6,500 1.5 years ago).

DVD Polizei

GizmoDVD, your grandfather is a GOD to me. We need more like him.

My grandfather, on the other hand, is getting an HDTV because the "old tv's" are not going to work anymore come 2009.

BuckNaked2k

Same story with my family. I've about given up. My father referred to me as a "fanatic" back at Thanksgiving.

matome

I would have no issues with BD remaining niche, just as I had no issues with laserdisc being the same.

GreenMonkey

Ditto


...
So let's put it this way.

Most SD channels look fairly awful on a reasonably sized HDTV (even iffy on my 37")...but DVDs look pretty darn good.

So: there's a lot more reason for folks to upgrade from SD channels than there is upgrading from SD-DVDs. Agreed?

And we're looking at what, 13.7% of the country with even that? With free, or close to free hardware prices, and minimal ($0-$20/month) extra charges?

So you can postulate HDM growth from this IMO. It's surely going to always run behind the number of people with HDTVs actually watching HDTV.

How far behind is HDM as compared to HDTV watching? Right now it is what, 1% compared to 13.7%?

The only way HD on disc will become anything beyond niche within the next 5 years or so or so is if people suddenly decide to adopt it even faster than HDTV, or HDTV watching rises to some absurd 50% or higher number. How likely is that?

spainlinx0

I still always chuckle when people say it's a 70' screen. I can't imagine how you're fitting a 70 foot screen in a normal living room.

Yavin

I concur. A co-worker of my mother recently bought an HDTV, but she hasn't subscribed to any HD channels and isn't even considering HDM. To her and her husband, and HDTV just means a TV with a bigger picture. They could care less about high definition. And I rarely see any of the HDM titles at my Best Buy or Future Shop moving off the shelves. Seems like the same titles are still there, week after week.

Josh Z

Anyone who still doesn't believe that High Definition is going to be niche for a long, long time need only look at what people are saying in the main forum on this site:

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=524250