Will WB's Blu-ray decision impact Criterion?
 

I have to say, as an owner of almost every single Criterion DVD, I am slightly disturbed to see that Blu-ray is/has won and now Criterion might drop DVD altogether for Blu-ray. I know they mentioned in the past that all of their recent releases were converted to HD.

Yes, I'm not a blu-ray enthusiast. I don't see the point really and am not looking forward to having my 3,000 plus DVD collection go defunct overnight. Plus, I hate Blu-ray packaging, it really makes me feel uneasy.

Has anyone heard anything about what might happen regarding Criterion?

Why would they drop DVD completely for Blu-Ray? You're talking years before that would be financially feasible. Stop panicking.

One can only hope :). I am far from an insider (in fact, I'm as far away to having inside info, it's not funny), but from reading snippets on Criterion's position, I think they'll wait it out a bit more before they jump into the fray.

I'm curious as to how that happens. Do they self destruct? Set up a video camera and youtube that shit. You'd have a hit video on your hands.

Have any of the other studios that support Blu-ray (or HD DVD for that matter) stopped making DVDs? No, they haven't.

HD transfers have been standard for a few years now, by all the major studios. Those HD transfers are then downconverted for DVD.

The point is better picture quality, just as it was when DVD came along in the VHS era. Have you watched a movie, and movie, on a good HDTV?

Funny, all of my DVDs are still working, and reside happily with a few HD DVDs and Blu-ray discs slipped in among them. They all seem to get along.

You mean the packaging that is almost exactly like keepcases, except slightly smaller and a different color? Case racist. Casist.

And uneasy how? Like you worry they're going to attack you in your sleep?

I like Blu-ray cases...

Also, I don't think Criterion will adopt HD for years. I think they correctly assume at this stage in the game, that no one is ready to pay $59.95 for a single Blu-ray disc (even one that bears the Criterion name).

That is a very good point I didn't even think about. I rarely purchase Criterion's to begin with because of the $39.99 price-tag, but there is no way I'd put down $40+ for any single movie...

I had heard that the way Criterion wrangled Bottle Rocket rights (and probably other Sony titles not yet announced) was to commit to Blu-Ray whenever they release a hi-def DVD. So it's possible Criterion is already Blu, but there's just nothing to show for it (and no real sign that there will be anything to show for it for who knows how long). I mean, certainly Criterion did SOMETHING, because they've been trying to get BR rights for who knows how long, and there were stories in the old BR thread about how notoriously stingy Sony is with their film rights.

Perhaps Bottle Rocket will be their first dual-format release.

I find it funny that someone who prides themselves on owning almost every Criterion, a company whose very existence is predicated upon releasing films of artistic merit in the highest quality possible, would not see the point in high definition media.

Just think, you are in the same position people with huge Criterion Laserdisc collections were in at one point. I'm pretty sure all those LDs still work.

It is only a matter of time till they start releasing on HD, but that doesn't mean they will completely stop releasing DVDs or that you have to upgrade all of your Criterions to HD. It is all up to you.

I have been thinking on this, and yes, I do think WB's move will affect Criterion. I am hoping we start seeing Criterion on Blu by the end of the year.

I pretty much stopped buying their SD releases last year in anticipation, since they're all already mastered in HD.

a Sound & Vision article on Criterion mentioned that they have done HiDef tests with a title and it was on Blu-ray

rotfl rotfl rotfl

I might be totally off the mark here, but I don't think Criterion would make much money from Blu-ray. The HD market is growing, but Criterion is a niche market to begin with, and I just don't see them making enough money off the HD format. Most A/V junkies like big explosions, car chases, gun fights, and loud music. I don't think soft music, deep character study, and brilliant performances are going to benefit from HD much. If you thought those Criterion DVDs were pricy now, wait until (if ever) they start releasing their films on Blu-ray.

Does anyone remember what they did when they switched from LD to DVD? Was there an overlap of products or was it a hard switchover?

If Wikipedia is correct, Criterion's last Laserdisc was Boogie Nights in 1998, and their first DVD was Grand Illusion in 1999. They were slower than most to embrace DVD.

Pretty sure that's not correct. Grand Illusion got the #1 spot but it came out a very long time after the first one. I think it was either The Lady Vanishes or Seven Samurai that was actually the first released.

As for the question at hand, I don't see Criterion going blu for a very long time.

IIRC, Criterion had several DVD titles available when I got my first DVD player in December 98 (which was basically the second holiday season that DVD was available -- more or less equivalent in time frame to the availabilty of current HDM players and disks, but I may not be taking into account how DVD was launched vs HDM.)

According to my (I believe impeccable) records I purchased my first Criterion DVD of Hard-Boiled on 6/11/1998, so there were probably a few more released before/around that time (probably The Killer as well).

If you can afford a collection that large, I don't see what the problem would be in affording a blu-ray player. Then, not only will you be covered if Criterion switches over, but it'll also play your regular old dvds just fine - and even up-convert them to boot. I don't see what the problem is.

As for packaging, I'm sure Criterion will come up with something far more creative than the current blu-ray cases.

They assume correctly.

I guess it would depend on the disc. Two Lane Blacktop? Yeah, I probably would blind buy it at that price...I mean, it stars Warren Oates...

I like the uniformity of most BD cases at this point and hope that doesn't go away. But still, you can't argue with having something cool like the Close Encounters of the Third Kind package in your collection either.

People that are already paying higher prices for Criterion DVDs wouldn't pay more for Criterion BDs?

Not the first time I've questioned the Criterion fan thought process, but IMO this makes even less sense than usual. If the movie is that worthy, and Criterions treatment is also supposedly so worthy, why not pay extra for a true HD release?

Criterion LD prices were $40-100 as I recall - and they were slow to adopt anamorphic video as well as DVD. Their approach to new technology has been rather conservative.

Actually the CAV LD sets went up to $125. I have a few of those like Pulp Fiction, Seven, Bram Stoker's Dracula, etc. It's amazing what we consider expensive today.

I think you're underming them - they know about the format war - they are not jumping on it yet, because they would prefer to release on one format. Everything they've done in the last past year have been mastered in High Def - the turn over to BR (or HD-DVD) isn't a hard thing for Criterion to do - they state this in the S&V article. Pricing though for the eventual High Def discs was not addressed or clarified.

First thing I thought of when I read that.

Doesnt matter to me either way, I'd purchase just about anything they'd release.

But where's this article about Sony making that offer to Criterion from one of the above posts?

Ok, let me explain myself a little:

- Yes, I own 2 HDTV's. I've also just purchased a $6,000 HD projector to install at work (as I am over the AV department). I also work at the Weather Channel and am involved in building our new HD studio here. It still makes me laugh to have TWC in HD. I know about HD. I think sports look great on them. Star Wars looks great on them. Just not sure how 30's -40's B&W films are going to look 'that much better' on them, not do I think they were intended for HD, nor do I care. I like the images to be cleaned up and restored as much as the next guy, but I'm one of the people who has seen blu-ray and just kinda said 'ok' what's the fuss about? It's not that better than DVD and I don't need it to be better than DVD to watch say, 'Beauty and the Beast'. People compare it to the jump from VCR to DVD and I just don't buy it. Sure, there's more pixels, blah blah blah, but face it, it doesn't look THAT different to the casual eye. Yes, I've seen MANY examples when I went HDTV shopping.

- I'm not made of endless money. It's a constant war of finding coupons, saving money, getting gifts, etc. that gets me my Criterion fix. I try and buy used as much as possible because I love the films. This isn't just Criterion but all of the films I collect. I primarily love the movie itself, then I go to quality and then DVD packaging. Paying $60-$100 for a Blu-ray Criterion is not going to happen. I think they can be overpriced as it is - paying $30 bucks to watch 'Dance on Film' was a tough sale for me. No way I'd pay $40, $50, etc.

- I HATE, yes HATE is the word, blu-ray packaging. It's a gimmick to differentiate it from HD-DVD and it takes away from the artwork. Yes, I do care about such things, what can I say, it's a hobby. I do print and convert all snappers, slim packs, box sets, etc. to keepcases. I like my library to look uniform on the shelf - let the insults fly. My deepest horror is having to convert every single Blu-ray disc to keep case, which I think is far superior in appearance to the glowing blue tiny box.

- No, my DVD players will not stop working the day Criterion cuts over. Good point. However, I do 'collect' DVD's. However silly that may sound to some of you, I do this and have done it for almost 10 years now. This does not mean that I will buy every DVD I own or want over again, far from it. It means basically that I will stop collecting altogether, specifically expensive titles like Criterion releases. I do not have the will to go through ANOTHER re-issue-athon with Criterion. I'm not buying Seven Samurai a 3rd time, or the Lady Vanishes. You just know that the first thing they will do, is re-issue a ton of old releases to BRD and that means a slow down in new titles. Now, I'm sure any of you can guffaw and pick apart this, the weakest if my arguments, but it doesn't change the way I feel.

Now that I have said all that - I recognize that all of your points are logical and probably 'right'. My argument is emotional (perhaps irrational) and is based on fear of change in doing what has been the most exciting hobby for me in my life. I was wary of DVD when it came out and didn't want to replace my VHS collection, but I did. I just wish that I saw as huge a benefit to dvd to bluray.

Well, you just admitted that this isn't a rational issue for you, so we probably won't be able to change your mind anyway. However, you did say you had similar separation anxiety going from VHS to DVD. Couldn't it simply be that it's the change that bothers you?

No, they weren't intended for HD. They were intended for 50-foot theater screens.

Also, the last Criterion laserdisc was Armageddon, released March 16, 1999.

http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/8537/C...-Edition-(1998)

Yes, they went from Citizen Kane (first Criterion LD) to Armageddon (last Criterion LD), a perfect chronicle of the best and worst that the filmmaking art has to offer.

Moral of the story: ignore Wikipedia. :)

:rimshot: ... ouch ... touche

And anybody who says Criterion releases have anything to do with the quality of the film.

I really like Blu-ray and HD DVD cases. One thing I didn't like about DVD, is that the cases that different movies came in were not the same across the board. I thought everything should be in keep cases, and hated snappers and paper cases that special editions came in. Sure there may be two different case styles for each hi-def media, but they are the same size and look great in a collection. The only different case i've seen other than tv shows is Close Encounters, but I didnt like that movie anyway.

The Close Encounters case was bitching!

Doesn't the Close Encounters slipcase actually contain a standard BD case and a booklet? If somebody didn't like the outer box they could always just put the movie part in the shelf.

QFT

Was Grand Illusion there first strictly dvd release. I know i picked up Robocop and Silence of the Lambs in mid-98 which i know were previous LD titles. I don't see how they were slow to embrace dvd, it seems like it took them less than a year to release library titles on dvd. They released dvds before paramount which didn't release there first run till october of 98. and few other companies.