Reuters/USA Today: Warner Bros. will back only Blu-ray
01-06-08, 01:34 PM
#1026
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Easy
Completely wrong. I bought the $100 Tosh and a handful of discs to see the difference for myself on my 65" Mits calibrated with Avia. I found it to be slightly better but I wasn't very impressed. It certainly wasn't the orgasmic experience some claim.
I guess Warner did me a favor. I learned what I needed to know and it cost very little. Now I won't be tempted to run out and "buy blu" for that minor improvement.
Naturally, if costs fall to current dvd levels at some time in the future I may revisit that decision.
I guess Warner did me a favor. I learned what I needed to know and it cost very little. Now I won't be tempted to run out and "buy blu" for that minor improvement.
Naturally, if costs fall to current dvd levels at some time in the future I may revisit that decision.
01-06-08, 01:39 PM
#1027
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by TheBigDave
It's not about Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. It's about the format war. Prices dropped on both sides because of the format war. Each side put out a better product because of the competition.
Competition with SD DVD is apples and oranges. Both products can co-exist side by side. It's nothing like the competition between the two rival HD formats.
Competition with SD DVD is apples and oranges. Both products can co-exist side by side. It's nothing like the competition between the two rival HD formats.
01-06-08, 01:45 PM
#1028
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by RockStrongo
Yeah, its time....its time for one to die....and I hate saying that becuase I like HD-DVD so much.
But, the competition has driven prices down on discs and hardware. Its time for one to take off now.
IMO, this war has been good for HD formats. I still think they will not overtake DVD, but for a larger market, one must go away now.
But, the competition has driven prices down on discs and hardware. Its time for one to take off now.
IMO, this war has been good for HD formats. I still think they will not overtake DVD, but for a larger market, one must go away now.
For HDM to get a greater market share, one format had to go away. But at what cost? Taking R&D, manufacturing, marketing, paying off studios, subsidies on the PS3 hardware, and everything else into account, I don't think Sony will ever see profit on the Blu-ray. But I honestly think that they care less about that and more about winning this war (still hurts that they lost with Betamax).
The only way that I see Blu-ray enjoying DVD-like success is if it can somehow get players to below $200 and movie prices to $20 range. Can it do that? If so, when?
When DVDs were launched in the late 90s, it was greatly aided by the dot-com boom. We had all sorts of websites that basically gave stuff away. In 1999, I bought my first DVD player for $140 when the same player was going for $299 at Best Buy (from ValueAmerica.com; now defunct), bought my first 3 DVDs for $1 (from 800.com; now defunct; name sold to circuitcity.com), and bought the next 200 DVDs at
01-06-08, 01:49 PM
#1029
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Originally Posted by DVD Josh
If you are going to claim things as FACT, then you need to post support. That's what he does. He never frames things as opinions. He spouts off like they are accepted, published numbers and facts, when rarely are they ever.
It's not bashing him. It's calling him on it. His opinion is welcome. His discussion of facts is welcome. His spin is not.
It's not bashing him. It's calling him on it. His opinion is welcome. His discussion of facts is welcome. His spin is not.
a) December standlone sales in favor of BR (quote already provided)
b) Year software sales in favor of BR
c) Giving both sides a chance throughout the holidays
d) Looking at the bigger picture/international trends
Calling me out would entail stating a different opinion where what is written is rebutted. Your only comment was that my post is shit.
I don't consider that to be anything else than a derogatory remark and giving the sensitive nature of current developments and how some people are going through some very difficult times I decided not to respond. But you went on.
So, here's your chance to prove that I responded to -- a statement by GizmoDVD that WB simply took a check and avoided the holiday trend -- with a spin.
Pro-B
Last edited by pro-bassoonist; 01-06-08 at 02:08 PM.
01-06-08, 01:54 PM
#1030
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Originally Posted by dsa_shea
I guess if you feel comfortable going back to purchasing SD dvds then by all means do so. There is nothing wrong with that if you feel like there is minimal difference. My brother has a PS3 but hasn't felt the need to buy one Blu-Ray disc either. It all depends on the taste of the consumer and what is important to you. I can tell the difference from HD media to SD media not only in the visual quality but in sound. But to some people it really isn't that big of a deal. The same can be said about the opinions of different people on the subject of many things in this world. I do feel that some people that downplay HD now because Blu-Ray is the leader would be the same people parading HD had HD-Dvd pulled it out. Like those people that say that baseball isn't really that big of a deal but when the Red Sox win the series they're the biggest baseball fans in the world.
Now I have a DVD movie collection but I rarely buy anymore. I just haven't seen anything in the theaters that screams to me "must buy" to me...so I have pretty much stopped buying.
I did buy a A2 player, but even with all the deals on software, I probably have about 8 titles...I enjoy the HD picture, but I'm not going through my catalogue to rebuy everything...either in HD DVD or Blu Ray. Upconverted SD are good enough for me.
01-06-08, 02:03 PM
#1032
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Originally Posted by TheBigDave
It's not about Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. It's about the format war. Prices dropped on both sides because of the format war. Each side put out a better product because of the competition.
01-06-08, 02:22 PM
#1033
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
I am extremely busy with paperwork today and tomorrow but will respond to your calling. So, from the points made in the post you address I would like to know which fragment Warner placed weight on isn't a fact?
a) December standlone sales in favor of BR (quote already provided)
b) Year software sales in favor of BR
c) Giving both sides a chance throughout the holidays
d) Looking at the bigger picture/international trends
Calling me out would entail stating a different opinion where what is written is rebutted. Your only comment was that my post is shit.
I don't consider that to be anything else than a derogatory remark and giving the sensitive nature of current developments and how some people are going through some very difficult times I decided not to respond. But you went on.
So, here's your chance to prove that I responded to -- a statement by GizmoDVD that WB simply took a check and avoided the holiday trend -- with a spin.
Pro-B
a) December standlone sales in favor of BR (quote already provided)
b) Year software sales in favor of BR
c) Giving both sides a chance throughout the holidays
d) Looking at the bigger picture/international trends
Calling me out would entail stating a different opinion where what is written is rebutted. Your only comment was that my post is shit.
I don't consider that to be anything else than a derogatory remark and giving the sensitive nature of current developments and how some people are going through some very difficult times I decided not to respond. But you went on.
So, here's your chance to prove that I responded to -- a statement by GizmoDVD that WB simply took a check and avoided the holiday trend -- with a spin.
Pro-B
01-06-08, 02:26 PM
#1034
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by GorillaX
even if HD-DVD goes away Sony's still in a war with MS & Nintendo, so the price of the PS3 will continue to come down and drag down the prices of other BR players along with it
Hell, the PS2 still hasn't dropped below $100. Sony doesn't have any reason to drop the PS3 anytime soon.
01-06-08, 02:27 PM
#1035
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Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
I am extremely busy with paperwork today and tomorrow but will respond to your calling. So, from the points made in the post you address I would like to know which fragment Warner placed weight on isn't a fact?
a) December standlone sales in favor of BR (quote already provided)
b) Year software sales in favor of BR
c) Giving both sides a chance throughout the holidays
d) Looking at the bigger picture/international trends
Calling me out would entail stating a different opinion where what is written is rebutted. Your only comment was that my post is shit.
I don't consider that to be anything else than a derogatory remark and giving the sensitive nature of current developments and how some people are going through some very difficult times I decided not to respond. But you went on.
So, here's your chance to prove that I responded to -- a statement by GizmoDVD that WB simply took a check and avoided the holiday trend -- with a spin.
Pro-B
a) December standlone sales in favor of BR (quote already provided)
b) Year software sales in favor of BR
c) Giving both sides a chance throughout the holidays
d) Looking at the bigger picture/international trends
Calling me out would entail stating a different opinion where what is written is rebutted. Your only comment was that my post is shit.
I don't consider that to be anything else than a derogatory remark and giving the sensitive nature of current developments and how some people are going through some very difficult times I decided not to respond. But you went on.
So, here's your chance to prove that I responded to -- a statement by GizmoDVD that WB simply took a check and avoided the holiday trend -- with a spin.
Pro-B
As a result, I'm putting you on ignore. I suggest you do the same. I have wasted more time than necessary reading and responding to your postings, and I'll join the numerous other members who realized this sooner than I did and have done the same.
01-06-08, 02:28 PM
#1036
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Originally Posted by Draven
You think so? Because I don't.
Hell, the PS2 still hasn't dropped below $100. Sony doesn't have any reason to drop the PS3 anytime soon.
Hell, the PS2 still hasn't dropped below $100. Sony doesn't have any reason to drop the PS3 anytime soon.
01-06-08, 02:34 PM
#1037
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Originally Posted by DVD Josh
I'm beyond done listening and responding to you. IMHO, you have added nothing but negativity to this forum as a whole since the whole format war took off. Between your poorly disguised spin posted as facts, your posting of opinions as facts, your postings of "facts" with no corroboration, and your thinly veiled insults of members, I do not find you to be a positive influence to this forum.
As a result, I'm putting you on ignore. I suggest you do the same. I have wasted more time than necessary reading and responding to your postings, and I'll join the numerous other members who realized this sooner than I did and have done the same.
As a result, I'm putting you on ignore. I suggest you do the same. I have wasted more time than necessary reading and responding to your postings, and I'll join the numerous other members who realized this sooner than I did and have done the same.
No, you should just start a thread stating your "retirement" plans.
01-06-08, 02:35 PM
#1038
DVD Talk Gold Edition
To everyone talking about HD (be it HD-DVD or Blu) and price of players relegating to a niche market, need I remind you that DVD started out the same way?
When it started, most people didn't know what DVD was. DVD was for enthusiast movie buffs, and that market was already being served by laserdisc, which wasn't going anywhere because the picture and sound quality of lasers was just as good. And, in comparison to the general cost of living between then and now, players were just as expensive (if not more so) as hi-def players are now.
However, despite its flaws (DVD was only good for watching movies and you couldn't record TV), first year sales of DVD were greater than the first year sales of all other consumer electronics... combined. And despite that early success, it wasn't until just about ten years ago that that DVD really became the dominant home video medium.
It's only been about two years, give HD some time. Rome wasn't built in a day.
When a single HD format is all there is, DVD will start being phased out. Studios will gradually stop producing them. In about ten years (if that) DVD will be relegated to the status that pre-recorded VHS tapes are now.
When it started, most people didn't know what DVD was. DVD was for enthusiast movie buffs, and that market was already being served by laserdisc, which wasn't going anywhere because the picture and sound quality of lasers was just as good. And, in comparison to the general cost of living between then and now, players were just as expensive (if not more so) as hi-def players are now.
However, despite its flaws (DVD was only good for watching movies and you couldn't record TV), first year sales of DVD were greater than the first year sales of all other consumer electronics... combined. And despite that early success, it wasn't until just about ten years ago that that DVD really became the dominant home video medium.
It's only been about two years, give HD some time. Rome wasn't built in a day.
When a single HD format is all there is, DVD will start being phased out. Studios will gradually stop producing them. In about ten years (if that) DVD will be relegated to the status that pre-recorded VHS tapes are now.
01-06-08, 02:36 PM
#1039
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Originally Posted by Draven
You think so? Because I don't.
Hell, the PS2 still hasn't dropped below $100. Sony doesn't have any reason to drop the PS3 anytime soon.
Hell, the PS2 still hasn't dropped below $100. Sony doesn't have any reason to drop the PS3 anytime soon.
01-06-08, 02:43 PM
#1040
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by Jon2
To everyone talking about HD (be it HD-DVD or Blu) and price of players relegating to a niche market, need I remind you that DVD started out the same way?
When it started, most people didn't know what DVD was. DVD was for enthusiast movie buffs, and that market was already being served by laserdisc, which wasn't going anywhere because the picture and sound quality of lasers was just as good. And, in comparison to the general cost of living between then and now, players were just as expensive (if not more so) as hi-def players are now.
However, despite its flaws (DVD was only good for watching movies and you couldn't record TV), first year sales of DVD were greater than the first year sales of all other consumer electronics... combined. And despite that early success, it wasn't until just about ten years ago that that DVD really became the dominant home video medium.
It's only been about two years, give HD some time. Rome wasn't built in a day.
When it started, most people didn't know what DVD was. DVD was for enthusiast movie buffs, and that market was already being served by laserdisc, which wasn't going anywhere because the picture and sound quality of lasers was just as good. And, in comparison to the general cost of living between then and now, players were just as expensive (if not more so) as hi-def players are now.
However, despite its flaws (DVD was only good for watching movies and you couldn't record TV), first year sales of DVD were greater than the first year sales of all other consumer electronics... combined. And despite that early success, it wasn't until just about ten years ago that that DVD really became the dominant home video medium.
It's only been about two years, give HD some time. Rome wasn't built in a day.
When a single HD format is all there is, DVD will start being phased out. Studios will gradually stop producing them. In about ten years (if that) DVD will be relegated to the status that pre-recorded VHS tapes are now.
01-06-08, 02:46 PM
#1041
DVD Talk Legend
New article on Yahoo with quotes from Toshiba:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080106/..._show_hd_dvd_4
Surprisingly, this is in the article:
"Warner said its decision to drop HD DVD was based on consumers' preference for Blu-ray."
Not sure who from WB is saying that, but I think that goes to show they at least partially looked at software and hardware sales for the decision.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080106/..._show_hd_dvd_4
Surprisingly, this is in the article:
"Warner said its decision to drop HD DVD was based on consumers' preference for Blu-ray."
Not sure who from WB is saying that, but I think that goes to show they at least partially looked at software and hardware sales for the decision.
01-06-08, 02:49 PM
#1042
[QUOTE=namja]When DVDs were launched in the late 90s, it was greatly aided by the dot-com boom. We had all sorts of websites that basically gave stuff away. In 1999, I bought my first DVD player for $140 when the same player was going for $299 at Best Buy (from ValueAmerica.com; now defunct), bought my first 3 DVDs for $1 (from 800.com; now defunct; name sold to circuitcity.com), and bought the next 200 DVDs at
01-06-08, 02:50 PM
#1043
Originally Posted by bunkaroo
New article on Yahoo with quotes from Toshiba:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080106/..._show_hd_dvd_4
Surprisingly, this is in the article:
"Warner said its decision to drop HD DVD was based on consumers' preference for Blu-ray."
Not sure who from WB is saying that, but I think that goes to show they at least partially looked at software and hardware sales for the decision.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080106/..._show_hd_dvd_4
Surprisingly, this is in the article:
"Warner said its decision to drop HD DVD was based on consumers' preference for Blu-ray."
Not sure who from WB is saying that, but I think that goes to show they at least partially looked at software and hardware sales for the decision.
Btw, this is in their press release on 1-4-08.
Last edited by DVD Polizei; 01-06-08 at 02:53 PM.
01-06-08, 02:53 PM
#1044
Suspended
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
Blu-ray discs better sell at $10 a piece, or this victory Sony is celebrating, isn't going to happen, and Blu-ray will just drag its feet along for several years, gaining little momentum. I think that's the reality.
Truth be told, my HD spending is going to take a dive. Because I will NEVER pay $20 for an HD title again without a BOGO attached to it. No fucking way. Not with the obvious lifespan of electronics these days and value depreciation. Will I pay $20 for a 4-disc DVD edition with a shitload of extras? You bet I will.
Do we really think lower prices are coming or the same prices we've been used to? Best Buy, Circuit City, Amazon, DeepDiscount, DVD Planet, DVD Empire (ok, they've never had deals period), and whoever else, are looking at their bottom line, and they are going to be as ruthless as Sony has been. In other words, they make more money with DVDs. Not Blu-ray. Sony is now under more pressure than they've ever been before. Now that the war is apparently over, Sony is gonna have to pull this entire HD thing on its own. Any problems with Blu-ray, Sony is gonna have to foot the bill to keep itself alive. Can Sony continue to do this indefinitely? Of course not.
So, I don't have a bright outlook for HD right now. In the next few years, I don't expect Blu-ray owners to buy movies like they have. Maybe a few here and there for the titles they REALLY want. But bird-picking titles sure isn't going to give HD a shot in the arm, is it. Nope.
Once again, I hope I'm wrong, but this latest curveball by Warner Brothers may have sealed their own fate and delayed HD's acceptance. We should have stayed NEUTRAL for at least another few years for everyone to purchase more titles, stocking up on our collections, and buying more players.
As it is, HD has barely gotten its foot in the door, and already a shitload of people are hesitant to get into it because of what WB did. They think, "Who's to say Blu-ray won't fold 5 years from now?" And I can't give them a good answer, to be honest, because I don't really know.
Truth be told, my HD spending is going to take a dive. Because I will NEVER pay $20 for an HD title again without a BOGO attached to it. No fucking way. Not with the obvious lifespan of electronics these days and value depreciation. Will I pay $20 for a 4-disc DVD edition with a shitload of extras? You bet I will.
Do we really think lower prices are coming or the same prices we've been used to? Best Buy, Circuit City, Amazon, DeepDiscount, DVD Planet, DVD Empire (ok, they've never had deals period), and whoever else, are looking at their bottom line, and they are going to be as ruthless as Sony has been. In other words, they make more money with DVDs. Not Blu-ray. Sony is now under more pressure than they've ever been before. Now that the war is apparently over, Sony is gonna have to pull this entire HD thing on its own. Any problems with Blu-ray, Sony is gonna have to foot the bill to keep itself alive. Can Sony continue to do this indefinitely? Of course not.
So, I don't have a bright outlook for HD right now. In the next few years, I don't expect Blu-ray owners to buy movies like they have. Maybe a few here and there for the titles they REALLY want. But bird-picking titles sure isn't going to give HD a shot in the arm, is it. Nope.
Once again, I hope I'm wrong, but this latest curveball by Warner Brothers may have sealed their own fate and delayed HD's acceptance. We should have stayed NEUTRAL for at least another few years for everyone to purchase more titles, stocking up on our collections, and buying more players.
As it is, HD has barely gotten its foot in the door, and already a shitload of people are hesitant to get into it because of what WB did. They think, "Who's to say Blu-ray won't fold 5 years from now?" And I can't give them a good answer, to be honest, because I don't really know.
01-06-08, 02:54 PM
#1045
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
Do you think they WOULDN'T mention this in a press release? They have to sound like they are for the consumer. Duh. If they didn't, HD would be packing its bags today.
Btw, this is in their press release on 1-4-08.
Btw, this is in their press release on 1-4-08.
01-06-08, 02:58 PM
#1046
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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
Blu-ray discs better sell at $10 a piece, or this victory Sony is celebrating, isn't going to happen, and Blu-ray will just drag its feet along for several years, gaining little momentum. I think that's the reality.
Truth be told, my HD spending is going to take a dive. Because I will NEVER pay $20 for an HD title again without a BOGO attached to it. No fucking way. Not with the obvious lifespan of electronics these days and value depreciation. Will I pay $20 for a 4-disc DVD edition with a shitload of extras? You bet I will.
Do we really think lower prices are coming or the same prices we've been used to? Best Buy, Circuit City, Amazon, DeepDiscount, DVD Planet, DVD Empire (ok, they've never had deals period), and whoever else, are looking at their bottom line, and they are going to be as ruthless as Sony has been. In other words, they make more money with DVDs. Not Blu-ray. Sony is now under more pressure than they've ever been before. Now that the war is apparently over, Sony is gonna have to pull this entire HD thing on its own. Any problems with Blu-ray, Sony is gonna have to foot the bill to keep itself alive. Can Sony continue to do this indefinitely? Of course not.
So, I don't have a bright outlook for HD right now. In the next few years, I don't expect Blu-ray owners to buy movies like they have. Maybe a few here and there for the titles they REALLY want. But bird-picking titles sure isn't going to give HD a shot in the arm, is it. Nope.
Once again, I hope I'm wrong, but this latest curveball by Warner Brothers may have sealed their own fate and delayed HD's acceptance. We should have stayed NEUTRAL for at least another few years for everyone to purchase more titles, stocking up on our collections, and buying more players.
As it is, HD has barely gotten its foot in the door, and already a shitload of people are hesitant to get into it because of what WB did. They think, "Who's to say Blu-ray won't fold 5 years from now?" And I can't give them a good answer, to be honest, because I don't really know.
Truth be told, my HD spending is going to take a dive. Because I will NEVER pay $20 for an HD title again without a BOGO attached to it. No fucking way. Not with the obvious lifespan of electronics these days and value depreciation. Will I pay $20 for a 4-disc DVD edition with a shitload of extras? You bet I will.
Do we really think lower prices are coming or the same prices we've been used to? Best Buy, Circuit City, Amazon, DeepDiscount, DVD Planet, DVD Empire (ok, they've never had deals period), and whoever else, are looking at their bottom line, and they are going to be as ruthless as Sony has been. In other words, they make more money with DVDs. Not Blu-ray. Sony is now under more pressure than they've ever been before. Now that the war is apparently over, Sony is gonna have to pull this entire HD thing on its own. Any problems with Blu-ray, Sony is gonna have to foot the bill to keep itself alive. Can Sony continue to do this indefinitely? Of course not.
So, I don't have a bright outlook for HD right now. In the next few years, I don't expect Blu-ray owners to buy movies like they have. Maybe a few here and there for the titles they REALLY want. But bird-picking titles sure isn't going to give HD a shot in the arm, is it. Nope.
Once again, I hope I'm wrong, but this latest curveball by Warner Brothers may have sealed their own fate and delayed HD's acceptance. We should have stayed NEUTRAL for at least another few years for everyone to purchase more titles, stocking up on our collections, and buying more players.
As it is, HD has barely gotten its foot in the door, and already a shitload of people are hesitant to get into it because of what WB did. They think, "Who's to say Blu-ray won't fold 5 years from now?" And I can't give them a good answer, to be honest, because I don't really know.
I'm not sure why you keep mentioning Sony since there is more than one company supporting Bluray hence the BDA. If there are issues, it will be handled by the BDA.
About your concerns about never buying a title without a BOGO, did you have the same approach with dvd? Most of you guys complaining about prices going up, you are the same ones buying 5 or 6 titles on release week and spending 200 to 300 dollars or more during the DDD sale. You're actually getting more for your money with hi-def but yet you have no problem spending more to to take a step back with dvd. Just doesn't make sense.
01-06-08, 02:58 PM
#1047
DVD Talk Legend
I don't think BOGO's can last forever, but they should definitely be used to convert the masses where possible.
BDA should also try to get places like Best Buy to take a little bit more off their everyday prices. Seems like the majority of HDM titles at Best Buy, the supposed biggest seller of HDM, are only $5 off list. That's ridiculous.
BDA should also try to get places like Best Buy to take a little bit more off their everyday prices. Seems like the majority of HDM titles at Best Buy, the supposed biggest seller of HDM, are only $5 off list. That's ridiculous.
01-06-08, 02:59 PM
#1048
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
Truth be told, my HD spending is going to take a dive. Because I will NEVER pay $20 for an HD title again without a BOGO attached to it. No fucking way. Not with the obvious lifespan of electronics these days and value depreciation. Will I pay $20 for a 4-disc DVD edition with a shitload of extras? You bet I will.
01-06-08, 03:00 PM
#1049
Originally Posted by bunkaroo
Well I just though it was worth emphasizing considering many here seem to believe it was only money that made WB decide for Blu-Ray. Sure money was a huge part of it, but it wasn't the only part.
This was never about what the consumer wanted. If it was, they would have gone neutral for another year at the least.
01-06-08, 03:04 PM
#1050
Suspended
Originally Posted by tonymontana313
Quit being so dramatic. The format war should have never happened in the first place. Blu-ray is going to take the natural steps DVD took when it first came to the market place.