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As a Blu Supporter, I think Sony is Really Dropping the Ball.....

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As a Blu Supporter, I think Sony is Really Dropping the Ball.....

Old 11-03-07, 12:17 PM
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As a Blu Supporter, I think Sony is Really Dropping the Ball.....

First let me say that I am a supporter of Blu-Ray, it was a big reason I bought my PS3 in the first place.

Second, I will also say that I stay OUT of this format war. I am not against HD-DVD and sort of hope both formats survive.

But Sony is dropping the ball BIG time lately.

Check over on fatwallet and there are a bunch of deals on Toshiba players right now. So much so that even I, who said he would wait to see how this plays out, am actually looking to pick one up. I was never opposed to being format neutral with my hardware but didn't want to be spreading my money over 2 separate formats.

With the current prices on HD-DVD players how could I not go neutral?
How could anyone in the market for even an SDDVD player not buy an HDDVD player?

We can all bicker about which technology is better, who has the better studios backing them, etc., but at some point is comes down to one major factor....price.

Any Joe6Pack who was waiting out this format war now has the incentive he needs to go out and buy an HDDVD player. For under $99 you can now join the ranks of HD video and audio.

And where is Sony when all of this is happening? Stubbornly standing their ground with overpriced players while Toshiba gains market share daily.

If Sony doen't make their own move quickly they are going to be surprised by which format becomes the standard one 18 months from now.
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Old 11-03-07, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SoSpacey
With the current prices on HD-DVD players how could I not go neutral?
Because I don't want to buy two different movie formats, and supporting both will just drag the war out longer. I want this war to end, and I've gone with Blu-ray, because that's where most of the titles that I want are located.
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Old 11-03-07, 12:39 PM
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I wanted Blu in the beginning too, but then I got an open box HD-A1 for less than 200 after gift cards IIRC. So yeah its price. But you know I never did think the PS3 would get people to support the format. And for my taste there has been more on HD DVD.

What's surprised me is that so many people with high end home theaters haven't jumped on either format.
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Old 11-03-07, 12:52 PM
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Hey now, Sony announced yesterday that their standalone players are dropping to $399!



http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...n_the_Way/1140
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Old 11-03-07, 12:54 PM
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Yesterday I bought 3 HD-DVD players for less than that (including an A3)... 2 for my own and 1 as a Christmas gift.
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Old 11-03-07, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Anubis2005X
Because I don't want to buy two different movie formats, and supporting both will just drag the war out longer. I want this war to end, and I've gone with Blu-ray, because that's where most of the titles that I want are located.
A year ago when both formats cost $500 or so, and I could understand why someone would want a single format. Who wants to spend $1000 on a new medium? Now that Toshiba has dropped the cost down to $99, I don't see why any Blu supporter (outside of pride) wouldn't see this as a way to relieve all the stress over this format war. While I haven't purchase a single Blu Ray or HD DVD in my life, I can say I have struggled over the years supporting Region Codes, PAL and NTSC DVD's. Why? Because I love film, and I don't want my machine or country of origin to determine what I watch. If you are actually interested in "watching movies", don't you want to be able to see ANYTHING released? Is $99 REALLY that much of an investment to have this luxury, especially when you already dropped X amount to get to the next gen anyhow? I watch a lot of international cinema and indy films, and I had to find players that would support PAL and would also be region free. In the last few years they have dropped in price, but I can say I paid more then $99 for a player that did PAL and NTSC. Here Toshiba is offering Blu Ray users a way to get it all for a mere $99. As for supporting "both formats" I also don't see why owning a "blu Ray" disc and owning an "HD DVD" disc would really be that much of a problem. My Korean imports don't seem to have problems standing on the shelf beside my R1's My Russian R5's don't fight with my Japanese R2's. lol. What's the worst that can happen? Someone who's color blind and can't read puts the disc in the wrong player? lol

If Sony had a $99 player and HD DVD was still at $500, I'd be asking HD DVD supporters the same thing.

Last edited by splattii2; 11-03-07 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 11-03-07, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by stingermck
Hey now, Sony announced yesterday that their standalone players are dropping to $399!



http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...n_the_Way/1140
Proof again that the powers to be at Sony haven't a clue how to market and price their product. If they're smart enough to drop the price another $200, I'll bite! Let's see....99 vs 399....doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who's gonna be getting the most buyers

I'll even give Sony this....IF they'd even drop the price to $199...i wouldn't hesitate for a minute to buy one of their players.
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Old 11-03-07, 01:50 PM
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best buy for business received around 5000 orders for the A2 yesterday when they had it listed for $99 although they could only fulfill 500 according to their stock.
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Old 11-03-07, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by TheMovieman
Yesterday I bought 3 HD-DVD players for less than that (including an A3)... 2 for my own and 1 as a Christmas gift.

same here bought 2 at Circuit City for 129.99 (sold out at walmart) one for me, will be my second one, and one for my brother for christmas
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Old 11-03-07, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Anubis2005X
Because I don't want to buy two different movie formats, and supporting both will just drag the war out longer. I want this war to end, and I've gone with Blu-ray, because that's where most of the titles that I want are located.
There is no such thing as a war. It's a term created by ppl who couldn't afford both formats (when they were $500-$1000 each). Now for $99, there is no reason to not be neutral. How can you miss out on Transformers, The Matrix, Casablanca, Adventures of Robin Hood, Casino, Children of Men, Hot Fuzz, etc.?
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Old 11-03-07, 02:20 PM
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Sony is not dropping the ball exactly. They are already selling stuff like the PS3 at a huge loss. Blu-ray is simply more expensive technology. That was one of the weaknesses going in for the BD side.
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Old 11-03-07, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Arpeggi
There is no such thing as a war. It's a term created by ppl who couldn't afford both formats (when they were $500-$1000 each). Now for $99, there is no reason to not be neutral. How can you miss out on Transformers, The Matrix, Casablanca, Adventures of Robin Hood, Casino, Children of Men, Hot Fuzz, etc.?
I guess I just don't really feel like there's much incentive for me. Out of all those movies you listed, I would only want to own Casablanca (already have the two-disc version on DVD), and Matrix, which I'm expecting Warner to release on Blu-ray.

Now, if they had Star Wars and Lord of the Rings exclusively out on HD-DVD, I would be fighting with the masses trying to get my hands on an HD-DVD player...
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Old 11-03-07, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by splattii2
A year ago when both formats cost $500 or so, and I could understand why someone would want a single format. Who wants to spend $1000 on a new medium? Now that Toshiba has dropped the cost down to $99, I don't see why any Blu supporter (outside of pride) wouldn't see this as a way to relieve all the stress over this format war. While I haven't purchase a single Blu Ray or HD DVD in my life, I can say I have struggled over the years supporting Region Codes, PAL and NTSC DVD's. Why? Because I love film, and I don't want my machine or country of origin to determine what I watch. If you are actually interested in "watching movies", don't you want to be able to see ANYTHING released? Is $99 REALLY that much of an investment to have this luxury, especially when you already dropped X amount to get to the next gen anyhow? I watch a lot of international cinema and indy films, and I had to find players that would support PAL and would also be region free. In the last few years they have dropped in price, but I can say I paid more then $99 for a player that did PAL and NTSC. Here Toshiba is offering Blu Ray users a way to get it all for a mere $99. As for supporting "both formats" I also don't see why owning a "blu Ray" disc and owning an "HD DVD" disc would really be that much of a problem. My Korean imports don't seem to have problems standing on the shelf beside my R1's My Russian R5's don't fight with my Japanese R2's. lol. What's the worst that can happen? Someone who's color blind and can't read puts the disc in the wrong player? lol

If Sony had a $99 player and HD DVD was still at $500, I'd be asking HD DVD supporters the same thing.
In addition to my previous response, I guess I personally feel it's kind of ridiculous to pay for another machine that does the same thing as my Blu-ray player. I guess I would compare the situation to owning a PS3 and a 360. The 360 has some great games on it, but I already own a PS3 and don't have time for all the games on it. So while 360 has some excellent software to offer, I'm already satisfied with what I have.

EDIT: Please note, in the same analogy, some people want the best of both worlds, so they get both HD gaming systems, which is totally fine!

Last edited by Anubis2005X; 11-03-07 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 11-03-07, 03:06 PM
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I don't think you could compare the format war to owning a PS3 and a 360. While both Blu-ray and HD-DVD offer a very nearly equal amount of titles, the 360 unaminously blows away the PS3 with software. If HD-DVD was like the 360 the format war would be over.
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Old 11-03-07, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by splattii2
Now that Toshiba has dropped the cost down to $99, I don't see why any Blu supporter (outside of pride) wouldn't see this as a way to relieve all the stress over this format war.
I've said it before and I will say it again. I don't see "neutrality" as a way of ending this unfortunate fiasco. On the contrary it very much sustains what people are frustrated with: unneeded bickering, limited choice of blockbusters, smaller studios staying out of the game.

Do you see Criterion getting ready to jump in on both formats? Do you see Koch Lorber, KINO? The list gets even bigger overseas...Masters of Cinema, Wild Side, Ripley's Home Video?

I am in this war for the long run and pride has absolutely nothing to do with it. I don't support neutrality and I don't see it as a viable option, at all. Price certainly gives a momentary advantage to Toshiba but to claim that HDDVD has somehow gained an enormous edge is just flat out incorrect. Wait for the sales data this Q4, analyze, and then see how everything goes.

I am firmly in the Blu camp and no matter what the price reduction I will not consider Toshiba. End of story.

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Old 11-03-07, 03:18 PM
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I've always agreed that this would be determined by cheap stand-alone players, not the PS3. But to really seal the deal, HD DVD side needs to announce some major releases in the next few months to take advantage of these hardware sales.

I all but had my credit card ready this week to buy a PS3 and become neutral for the BR discs I'm wanting, but with this week's developments, I'm waiting for now.
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Old 11-03-07, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
I've said it before and I will say it again. I don't see "neutrality" as a way of ending this unfortunate fiasco. On the contrary it very much sustains what people are frustrated with: unneeded bickering, limited choice of blockbusters, smaller studios staying out of the game.

Do you see Criterion getting ready to jump in on both formats? Do you see Koch Lorber, KINO? The list gets even bigger overseas...Masters of Cinema, Wild Side, Ripley's Home Video?

I am in this war for the long run and pride has absolutely nothing to do with it. I don't support neutrality and I don't see it as a viable option, at all. Price certainly gives a momentary advantage to Toshiba but to claim that HDDVD has somehow gained an enormous edge is just flat out incorrect. Wait for the sales data this Q4, analyze, and then see how everything goes.

I am firmly in the Blu camp and no matter what the price reduction I will not consider Toshiba. End of story.

Ciao,
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I don't mean this as a personal attack, but your reasoning is silly. Well, not necessarily silly but just fanboy-ish. It's technology, yet your comments make it seem like Toshiba personally attacked you. They're both new formats, not everybody jumps on a bandwagon the second it is available, and most smaller companies have very little to gain from jumping on board either format right now. Even if Blu-ray flat-out won, at the current stats, I wouldn't anticipate many smaller companies jumping on board. In fact, if Blu-ray won all out, it would likely be more damaging than not, outside of those burnt on the HD-DVD side of things, the pricing is still simply ridiculous.

Ultimately, though, years down the line, I see HD-DVD/BluRay being nothing more than a marking on the back of a case. Something akin to DVD+/-R, it will matter once in a while, but ultimately mean little. The video formats are supported by both sides, its now merely a matter of reading them.

Last edited by RichC2; 11-03-07 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 11-03-07, 03:28 PM
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If you are a movie fan, you would own both technologies at this point. I understand that blu-ray fans don't want to invest in another technology, but why not picked up the $99 A2 with 5 free movies (or even $199 A3 with 10 free movies, or whatever the current best deal is), and just rent the HD DVD movies that aren't available on Blu-ray, and buy the Blu-ray discs. To me, that seems to be the most reasonable solution for a true movie fan. I can't imagine suffering through DVD resolution on my 10 foot screen just to be stubborn about wanting to win this format war.
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Old 11-03-07, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by RichC2
I don't mean this as a personal attack, but your reasoning is silly. Well, not necessarily silly but just fanboy-ish. It's technology, yet your comments make it seem like Toshiba personally attacked you.
Why does it sound that way to you?


Originally Posted by RichC2
...if Blu-ray won all out, it would likely be more damaging than not,
Please explain.

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Old 11-03-07, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
I am firmly in the Blu camp and no matter what the price reduction I will not consider Toshiba. End of story.
And this mentality is actually coming from a DVD reviewer for this site? - yikes. I would have to assume that you initially started reviewing DVDs because you have a passion for film, yes?...so what changed?

And the days are long gone where one could use the excuse that picking one format and staying with it is better for HD in the long run - a year ago maybe - today, the market is such that (particularly within the last three months) stubborn people are just depriving themselves of great films...American Gangster, Beowulf, Sweeny Todd...all HD-DVD exclusive; an HD sacrifice I would never want to make...
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Old 11-03-07, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by PerryD
If you are a movie fan, you would own both technologies at this point. I understand that blu-ray fans don't want to invest in another technology, but why not picked up the $99 A2 with 5 free movies (or even $199 A3 with 10 free movies, or whatever the current best deal is), and just rent the HD DVD movies that aren't available on Blu-ray, and buy the Blu-ray discs. To me, that seems to be the most reasonable solution for a true movie fan. I can't imagine suffering through DVD resolution on my 10 foot screen just to be stubborn about wanting to win this format war.
Because I don't see the majors, the only major players on the HD market as of now, rushing in and releasing anything else but popular blockbusters, a few selected all time classics. Furthermore, aside from a vocal, yet very small, percentage of "neutral" early adopters it is very unlikely that HD media would have the mass appeal the video-gaming industry has/had. There are different market tools involved here and this is simply not how the almighty J6P will see it.

I may well be wrong on this one and I will publicly admit to my false assumption but I don't see how the two formats can coexists. If they attempted they would be permanently crippled, just as they have been up to this point.

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Old 11-03-07, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tbickle
And this mentality is actually coming from a DVD reviewer for this site? - yikes. I would have to assume that you initially started reviewing DVDs because you have a passion for film, yes?...so what changed?
The answer to your question is actually in the posts I've made in this thread. And yes, my passion for film has been a motivating factor. Probably to an extent you, with all due respect, can not even begin to imagine. Suffice to say my love for films extends WAY beyond the upcoming titles you listed.

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Old 11-03-07, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
Why does it sound that way to you?




Please explain.

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Stubborn-ness in your word selection is all, namely:

I don't support neutrality and I don't see it as a viable option, at all. Price certainly gives a momentary advantage to Toshiba but to claim that HDDVD has somehow gained an enormous edge is just flat out incorrect. Wait for the sales data this Q4, analyze, and then see how everything goes.

I am firmly in the Blu camp and no matter what the price reduction I will not consider Toshiba. End of story.
Is about as close minded as it gets.

And I believe it would be more damaging because of cost. HD has tried to garner mass appeal by providing cheaper players, but Sony remains stubborn on the issue - though understandable due to cost. It doesn't make sense for something to cost 4x - 5x more than something just as good (in terms of audio/video quality outright). This would slow the HD adoption process a great deal for a good length of time (until Blu managed to drop to sub $200). The PS3 is the only reason why Blu has maintained a lead, and it is understandable (it's a gaming system and blu player).

But then it doesn't really matter when we have idiotic things like studio exclusivity happening. Paramount shouldn't have signed with Toshiba and Disney/Fox should not siding with Sony. But alas, thats what corporate muscle gets you these days.

Last edited by RichC2; 11-03-07 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 11-03-07, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by RichC2
Stubborn-ness in your word selection is all, namely:
Then as I thought it is nothing more than an assumption on your part far and away from reality. Which you are certainly entitled to have even though it does not address my position. Perhaps you could use the analogy for someone else.

Rest assured you have made your choice to support both. I have decided not to.

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Old 11-03-07, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
Then as I thought it is nothing more than an assumption on your part far and away from reality. Which you are certainly entitled to have even though it does not address my position. Perhaps you could use the analogy for someone else.

Rest assured you have made your choice to support both. I have decided not to.

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Anything typed in text carries a level of assumption, and somehow I doubt very seriously that it is away from reality. As such, it very much applies to your comments thus far, both in this thread and others on this board.

Alas, I understand you're a Blu-only supporter, but outside of a singular "I picked it, it's better (read: fanboy)" mentality, I can't understand it.

Last edited by RichC2; 11-03-07 at 03:49 PM.
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