In my quest to find a Blu-Ray player that is going to last me at least 2-3 years, I'm trying to get as much information as I can about specific models, one of which is the Panasonic DMP-BD10AK, the other being the unreleased Samsung BD-UP5000 combo player.

My only question in regards to the DMP-BD10AK is whether or not there is, or possibly will be, a firmware update that will give the player the capability to decode DTS-HD Master audio. As Fox has just rejoined the Blu-Ray market, and releases all of their content with this audio codec, this is something that is going to factor into my decision.

I've been hearing from different sources that the BD-UP5000, in addition to being able to play both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs, will also have support for all of the high-def audio formats, including DTS-HD Master. Does anyone know if there is any truth to this?

Either roll the dice with the PS3 or wait. None of the announced players support Profile 1.1 or 2.0, so you are basically buying a crippled player. The PS3 may be able to be firmware updated, but the players currently on the market and coming in October will not be capable. If you simply must buy a BD player now, the PS3 is your best chance for the possibility of working with the advanced features that are coming on newer discs. Still, there is no guarntee that the PS3 will be able to support the new profiles either and there is always the problem with lack of IR port on the console.

They are putting features on discs that the players can't even play?

What's that all about?

Okay, I'm lost now. When you say that these players don't support Profile 1.1 or 2.0, what does this mean in layman's terms? No DTS-HD Master ever? No firmware updates?

If all this means is that I'm going to lose support for one audio codec, as well as the capability to access a couple of features, that's not such a big deal for me. Yes, I do like lossless audio, but as long as I have a 1080p picture, I can live with DTS core-only.

I just find it a bit sloppy that Blu-Ray has been around for almost a year now, and still no one has come up with a player that will support an audio codec that is popping up on Blu-Rays more frequently as of late. I'm format-war neutral, and will continue to be until one format wins/loses, but it does seem that HD-DVD has had the upper hand in terms of audio codec support across their players.

It's the audio and I believe the interactivity. I remember seeing a semi-official quote from Sony basically guaranteeing that the PS3 will always work. It's not a matter of hardware, it's a matter of software. And that is relatively easy with the PS3.

The only minus I can think of is that it lacks analog audio out and it won't work with any existing universal remotes (that I can think of). Otherwise, the quality is good, it looks more like a player than a console, and even if you habve 0 interest in games, you can download movie trailers, etc. I could see if BD players were $249, but when they're the same price or more expensive, it's a no brainer (to me).

It basically means that the current crop of players are incomplete. Profile 1.1 will add a secondary audio and video decoder to allow for advanced features such as PIP etc. and additional memory to allow for title updates and interactive features. This means that players in the market and those that are being released next month will not be able to take advantage of many of the features included on future releases.

Additionally, these current players may have playback problems with future releases due to this issue, much like many players today (with the exception of the PS3) have some real issues with Pirates of the Carribbean discs due to Disneys use of BD-J on those discs. Current players are supposed to be able to handle the features that are avaliable on those discs, but many cough and choke when you try to play them. However, they will eventually play.

Profile 2.0 is basically the BD-Live portion of the spec. Most of today's players and many on the upcoming crop still lack network interfaces. This would allow a player to retrieve updated content, fix problems in defective titles and allow for easier firmware updates for players.

Blu-Ray was not ready for prime time when it was released. It has gotten much better, but is still not a finished spec. I have a PS3 and I hope that it can be updated. I don't like being a Alpha or Beta tester for the BDA and had I know some of this info and done the research when I bought into BD, I would have thought twice. On the other hand, I love my HD DVD player which may be slow, but has outstanding picture and a finialized spec.

The PS3 can be updated to support both profiles 1.1 and 2.0, if it will be, is the question. I'd say it will be.

Yeah, I have a PS3 because it is the most updated and likely to be compatible player from the Blu-Ray camp. If those idiots ever finalize a spec and feature list I will buy a standalone player.

There shouldn't even be any decision here to make: Get the PS3!

Seriously....it is fully able to be updated and Sony is not going to let it fall behind...

Plus, it has a much higher price/value ratio than any of the standalone decks...if you hurry and grab one of the remaining 60GB models, it can pretty much fully play THREE generations of games...and even if you don't give a crap about ever playing a game, it has built in wi-fi, a built in web browser, it has media server functions (you can stream audio as well as rip audio to it I believe, plus you can install a larger hard drive if you want), it does a good job upconverting standard DVDs, etc. etc...

All this at a price just about equal to the cheapest standalone deck....sorry, not trying to sound like a commercial, just I bought one and love mine, and the general attitude seems to be that the PS3 really is just about the best player on the market, so the fact that you get all those other functions with it is just swell.

I'm not trying to argue with you here, I think that they will be able to update the PS3 as well. But, Sony has not confirmed this to be true...yet.

It was confirmed by someone at Sony at the foums at blu-ray.com

He was asked what BR players currently on the market can be upgraded to profiles 1.1 and 2. His answer was the PS3.

You are thinking of paidgeek who is Sony insider.

I've been debating about getting a blu-ray player for some time now, and i just can't pull the trigger. It's like fucking amateur hour with them sometimes. I love how they are rushing some new players to the market that WON'T be 1.1 or 2.0. Good way to squeeze a few more dollars out of unsuspecting customers.

I could just get a PS3 but I can't bring myself to trust a video game machine to watch my movies. I'd love to get the Samsung Combo player coming out, but that is crippled as well.

And now, honestly, i'm beginning to think about just upgrading my HD DVD player instead. I've had an A1 since december and it has been solid as a rock. But maybe upgrading to an Xa2 would be worthwhile.

Truly, i'm not trying to crap all over Blu-Ray, I am interested in getting a player for it as well. But with all the shenanagins going on with them. I'd wait till x-mas time before i'd buy a player unless you're happy with a ps3.

I can speak from experience that the Toshiba HD-XA2 is a terrific machine! Granted, I did have to send it in for a hardware glitch, but it still works just fine. Image quality is superb for hi-def content, and standard upconversion is a notch above any other standard DVD player I've ever used. The onboard decoding of Dolby TrueHD into lossless PCM and Dolby Digital Plus is also quite nice; my audio system has never sounded better.

I'm with you, though, on the whole Blu-Ray camp not being able to get their act together. Honestly, I don't care about which format is selling more titles; in the end, for me, it boils down to which format is going to give me the most for my money. And while I will eventually purchase a Blu-Ray player of some sort, I know that I will have my XA2 for a long time.

I want to express my gratitude to everyone here that has posted replies. You've helped me make a decision to go with the PlayStation 3 when I am ready to purchase next month!

Is this a problem when trying to play the actual movies themselves, or just trying to access certain special features? I can live with just being able to play the movie, as that is the main reason I'm upgrading to hi-def to begin with.

If you don't plan on getting another Blu-ray player next year...stick with the PS3.
If you are an audio freak and plan on watching extras ...get a stand alone player and just upgrade it when 1.1 and 2.0 come out. 1.1 deadline is October 31st as of right now.

I have a PS3 and will be keeping it. I have no audio setup but extras do matter.

Would anyone here be able to tell me how the Blu-Ray player handles Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital Plus? I know that most of the Blu-Ray discs I'll be purchasing include uncompressed PCM and DTS audio, which the player is capable of handling, but as for these two codecs, does the unit have the capability of decoding them onboard, or is it able to send them bitstream via HDMI? I do own the Onkyo TX-SR605, which can decode TrueHD and Plus, but can the PS3 send those bitstreams?

Yes, the PS3 decodes it and sends the uncompressed PCM output to the receiver, but you can only send the signal through an HDMI connection, as optical digital does not have enough bandwidth...
No player on the market right now can pass the compressed Dolby TrueHD to the receiver for decoding, but even if it could, why would anyone need to when the player can do it for you and you end up with the same result? (I know, some people just want to see that TrueHD indicator light up on their equipment....)

To answer your question more completely, while the PS3 has HDMI 1.3, it does not have the optional ability of that spec to pass bitrate (compressed) Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA. No firmware upgrade can change this. However, the PS3 can decode TrueHD and pass it as PCM via HDMI (which your receiver has), giving you lossless sound that way. And of all the players on the market, it's the one currently on the market most likely to be able to play DTS-HD MA in the future, which it would decode and pass it as PCM the same way it does with TrueHD.

In answer to your larger question, the PS3 is the largest selling Blu-ray player on the market. It's manufactured by the creator of Blu-ray, Sony, and is their flagship player. For these reasons, as well as the PS3's powerful cell processor that allows it to do a lot via software, the PS3 will be the best-supported Blu-ray player on the market for years to come. Because Sony intends to use the PS3 to win the format war, it will be the most compatible and updated machine on the market. Those BD-J discs that had problems on other players played without a hitch on the PS3.

In other words, buy a PS3. Even if you never play a single game on it you will get more than your money's worth. As for people who refuse to watch movies on gaming machines, I know how you feel. I used to be the same way. Video games are notorious for shitty playback, but the PS3 is the exception to the rule. It's not just a great player, it's the best Blu-ray player on the market by far.

It's not necessarily a problem to play the movie, however some discs such as Pirates 1 & 2 have horrible load times because of the interactive features. Additionally, we don't know what problems could occur with the newer discs that are authored with BD+ or more intensive BD-Java features. There could be no problems, but based on the many problems with the Pirates discs, it's anyones guess whether these more advanced discs will cause greater problems on current hardware in the future.

There's a problem with that. Most players on the market today cannot be upgraded to 1.1 or 2.0. The PS3 will likely be upgraded, however there is a chance that it will never be fully compliant with the new profiles. Since no current stand alone hardware has the required memory, secondary audio and video decoders and almost all are missing the network connections, current hardware cannot be upgraded for compliance.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe most of what paidgeek or Talkstr8r over on AVS and Blu-Ray.com have to say. Not only are they unwilling to reveal who exactly they are when claiming to be insiders (I know that they are indeed insiders as paidgeek works for Sony), but they have been caught numerous times bending the truth to shill for the BDA. When they were challenged about the things they were saying they left the insiders thread at AVS and high tailed it over to Blu-ray.com where anything that they say is considered gospel without challenge. Things such as claiming the BDA had a 63% market share of stand alone players (which is a total deception because they were using revenue figures of higher dollar BD players rather than the actual number of units in consumers homes) are things that got them into hot water. Their word is no good in my opinion.

This is indeed only your opinion.

There is a very specific reason why both of them left AVS and why even Penton-Man does not visit the forum there. That's one.

Second, when it comes to Paidgeek not only has he been extremely reliable but he was the first one to break the news that PS3 will be fully compatible with the new formats. His words are on record so when the firmware updates are released it should be be obvious whether or not he spoke the truth. Not before! Until then there is no reason to doubt what he has said as he has been correct on every other single issue discussed by the members: from release dates to the fact that none of the first generation Sony players will be upgradeable.

And for you to question their status because they have not revealed their true identity is simply flabbergasting. Especially given the fact that you also happen to be posting under an alias. For the record ALL of the insiders names are on record with the administrators at the above-mentioned forum.


Pro-B

I can't imagine there is any reason to buy any BD player other than the PS3

Misunderstanding. I meant 'upgrade' as buying a new one...not upgrading the firmware (on a stand alone). My bad. Should have been more clear.

Only if you wanted the newer sound formats and don't have a HDMI receiver, but do have a receiver with 5.1 analog inputs.... The PS3 doesn't have the need ed analog 5.1 outputs?

Hmmm.. I might have to upgrade to a HDMI receiver in the future.....