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Looks like Bram Stoker's Dracula is coming to BD this fall...

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Looks like Bram Stoker's Dracula is coming to BD this fall...

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Old 10-04-07 | 08:56 PM
  #176  
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It seems as if you've proven your case admirably - those who disagree with you can pretty much be divided into two camps: apologists and deniers. I'm very disappointed with this transfer and canceled my pre-order based on your bringing this issue to light.
Old 10-04-07 | 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by wewantflair
It seems as if you've proven your case admirably - those who disagree with you can pretty much be divided into two camps: apologists and deniers. I'm very disappointed with this transfer and canceled my pre-order based on your bringing this issue to light.

Why?

Just because someone else doesnt like something - doesnt mean that your intitled to their opinion also.

Worse comes to worst - I'm sure there is guys on the 'Exchange' forum that would gladly take it off your hands if your not interested after the purchase.

check it out for yourself, than judge it.

((please dont take this as an insult or a coax to get a arguement going))
Old 10-04-07 | 10:40 PM
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Actually, I would agree with that too.
It is worth checking out. maybe rent it and see what you think? Some people are happy with it.

Old 10-05-07 | 01:36 AM
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Based on my conversations with Kim Aubry, I have amended my review, raising the image quality rating by half a star, and changed the overall rating from "Rent It" to "Recommended" (albeit hesitantly). You can read the full review here (and I would please ask that you do so before commenting on my ratings changes):
http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=30820

The image section now has quotes reproduced from my conversations with Kim.
Old 10-05-07 | 02:01 AM
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That was amended well and fairly.
I DO wish (since we have all been SO focussed on the IMAGE), that we can find out why the new audio track is SO retsrained in the surround usage though. Part of what made the SB dvd of dracula soo immersive was the constant, clever and distict surround usage. Here, barely noticeable.
Was the original audio mix on the dvds wrong too?
Old 10-05-07 | 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Davy Mack
That was amended well and fairly.
Thank you. I tried to represent both sides equally.


Originally Posted by Davy Mack
I DO wish (since we have all been SO focussed on the IMAGE), that we can find out why the new audio track is SO retsrained in the surround usage though. Part of what made the SB dvd of dracula soo immersive was the constant, clever and distict surround usage. Here, barely noticeable.
Was the original audio mix on the dvds wrong too?
I'm going to go ahead and guess that we'd get a very similar answer. Surround sound was still pretty new in 1992, so I'd imagine the theatrical prints of Dracula make very little use of surrounds. The SB DVD was more than likely a complete overhaul. On the other hand, I've not heard anyone claim that the sound is exactly the way it was mixed in 1992.

Last edited by Supermallet; 10-05-07 at 02:13 AM.
Old 10-05-07 | 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
Based on my conversations with Kim Aubry, I have amended my review, raising the image quality rating by half a star, and changed the overall rating from "Rent It" to "Recommended" (albeit hesitantly). You can read the full review here (and I would please ask that you do so before commenting on my ratings changes):
http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=30820

The image section now has quotes reproduced from my conversations with Kim.
Well, it's back to the drawing board for you. In his raves, Mr. Harris has insisted many times, that this is not a restoration - the film didn't need any - it's just a transfer, a very questionable one at that. So maybe you would consider modifying this paragraph also:

Furthermore, renowned film restorer Robert Harris (he of Lawrence of Arabia fame) also gave the transfer high marks, echoing many of Kim's comments, stating that the limitations of older televisions required home video editions that looked quite different from the original theatrical release. He goes on to call it "one of the most perfect [restorations] to come from the Sony vaults." On the other hand, I've received many firsthand accounts from people who have either seen the film recently, or remember seeing it in 1992, and even got comments from a projectionist who ran the film for months during its original release, all who claim that the colors here are not representative of the original prints.
Old 10-05-07 | 05:14 AM
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Usually the phrase "back to the drawing board" is used to mean you need to start all over, which I don't. I did change the word "restorations" to "releases," though.
Old 10-05-07 | 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
Usually the phrase "back to the drawing board" is used to mean you need to start all over, which I don't. I did change the word "restorations" to "releases," though.
Just when I found Mr. Harris' actual quote:

I noted the quote "perfect restoration" over at Blu-Ray.com attributed to me, and to my comments here.

Let me say it loud and clear.

Bram Stoker's Dracula is NOT a "perfect restoration."

Bram Stoker's Dracula is NOT a restoration. It is a new video transfer.
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...8&postcount=51
Old 10-05-07 | 05:41 AM
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To Davy Mack: I wish to extend my warmest congratulations for being a courageous and perceptive critic and for having come out relatively unscathed from your encounter with the tea and crumpets set at HTF. I was also expelled from one of their august discussion forums in March of this year for having dared to comment on the colour palette of the Platinum Edition of Peter Pan, whose story is consigned here: http://www.dvdtalk.com/dvdsavant/s2242pan.html

Last edited by baracine; 10-05-07 at 05:44 AM.
Old 10-05-07 | 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by baracine
Just when I found Mr. Harris' actual quote:



http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...8&postcount=51
Yes, you're correct, it's not a restoration. And I changed the wording of my review.
Old 10-05-07 | 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
Yes, you're correct, it's not a restoration. And I changed the wording of my review.
Thank you for that.
Old 10-05-07 | 07:14 AM
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Thanks, Benoit!

I was just trying to illustrate what I and many others noticed. Here, at AVS and HTF it's been a good, interesting debate. Maybe we all learned a bit.

Last edited by Davy Mack; 10-05-07 at 07:19 AM.
Old 10-05-07 | 10:16 AM
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Re-posted from the SD thread:

Gossip....gossip...

This undated gossip item - probably from August 2007 - states that Robert A. Harris has been involved in the multi-million dollar photo-chemical restoration of Coppola's Godfather trilogy for some time, which would be as good a reason as any to not rock the boat, close ranks with the Zoetrope people and toe the company line on a little matter like a flubbed transfer of a Dracula DVD/BD:

http://www.hollywood-elsewhere.com/a...ther_resto.php

Blue-chip restoration guru Robert Harris has been working on a photo-chemical restoration of all three Godfather films for the last few months, and the results may be digitally viewable as soon as December (a Danish DVD site is stating that restored DVDs of the first two Godfather pics are due for release on 12.6.07). Harris declined comment, but Francis Coppola said after an 8.6 Godfather III screening at the Academy's Samuel Goldwyn theatre that Steven Spielberg is the restoration project's financial savior.

Coppola said that Paramount was initially not interested in funding the restoration (deemed necessary due to the original negative having been "purposefuly damaged by idiots...misued, cut up") but all that changed when Spielberg stepped into the breach and said, "This is going to happen."

According to an 8.18 posting by "Adam S." on a Godfather restoration discussion at Home Theatre Forum, "Coppola showed up on Monday August 6th, after a screening of Godfather III at the Academy's Samuel Goldwyn theater. He didn't arrive until about an hour into a six person q & a with a variety of people in or attached to the film. He said it was a bit surreal to be there after we've been watching Godfather III because he had just come from the first viewing of the new restoration of the original Godfather, which he said 'it looks 'incredible.'

"Coppola also mentioned that the negative was basically going to dissolve, or very close to complete loss and it would have cost millions of dollars to restore. Paramount was not going to foot the bill for it, he said, but that after Paramount became Dreamamount Spielberg himself made sure they knew they had to restore The Godfather, and the restoration went forward. [But] there was absolutely no mention of a DVD release."

I called Paramount Home Video's Brenda Ciccone on Friday afternoon to learn what I could learn, but the whole lot is taking Friday afternoons off during the summer -- a Brad Grey idea.

Paramount management was probably taking the view that the film was fine as long as it existed in good digital form, but any responsible archivist will tell you that photo-chemical film elements have to be restored and preserved because they comprise the core elements in their original state -- the actual "film" in its pure and most pristine form -- and that these elements will enable home-video technicians to deliver top-grade transfers in the decades to come as well as ensure the film's general future survival.

I for one would love to one day see a mint-condition chronological Godfather Saga with all those deleted scenes that were shown on broadcast TV in the late '70s. But with the remastering of both films, this seems like a perfect opportunity to also remaster all the deleted scenes and put the big saga on DVD as a stand-alone separate release.
Always ask yourself: Which trough is the guy drinking from?
Old 10-05-07 | 10:25 AM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
Based on my conversations with Kim Aubry, I have amended my review, raising the image quality rating by half a star, and changed the overall rating from "Rent It" to "Recommended" (albeit hesitantly). You can read the full review here (and I would please ask that you do so before commenting on my ratings changes):
http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=30820

The image section now has quotes reproduced from my conversations with Kim.
Kim must have sent out "form" e-mails to the negative reviewers...that's pretty much (if not exactly) word for word what I got.

I'm surprised he convinced you to bump up your ratings...I'm not sure this title deserves a "3" in video (meaning "average for Blu-ray") or the Recommended stamp...but it's your review, it's your call.
Old 10-05-07 | 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt

I'm surprised he convinced you to bump up your ratings...I'm not sure this title deserves a "3" in video (meaning "average for Blu-ray") or the Recommended stamp...but it's your review, it's your call.

Yeah, if its garbage in your book stick to your review. Its your opinion.

If you think that its a polished turd and someone close to the project says it a gormet,fillet minot, double crushed, salted with a hint of basel turd.

Your answer should still be, 'So its still a turd, Right?'

If its not your cup of tea, than its not your cup of tea, baby
Old 10-05-07 | 02:26 PM
  #192  
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Shannon: My goal here was to bridge both sides of the debate. And if you read the whole of my original review, you'd know I was conflicted about my rating in the first place. I think this is a good solution.

baracine: Robert Harris gets work based on his sterling reputation and impressive results in film restoration. He doesn't get it by taking a paycheck for a good quote. I don't think he would put his stamp of approval on something that he didn't actually like. I would suggest you stop looking for conspiracies where there aren't any.
Old 10-05-07 | 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
baracine: Robert Harris gets work based on his sterling reputation and impressive results in film restoration. He doesn't get it by taking a paycheck for a good quote. I don't think he would put his stamp of approval on something that he didn't actually like. I would suggest you stop looking for conspiracies where there aren't any.
I'm not looking for conspiracies. I think it's understandable that the guy will go to bat for someone he works with every day.
Old 10-05-07 | 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
Robert Harris gets work based on his sterling reputation and impressive results in film restoration. He doesn't get it by taking a paycheck for a good quote. I don't think he would put his stamp of approval on something that he didn't actually like. I would suggest you stop looking for conspiracies where there aren't any.
I certainly don't believe there to be any conspiracy. I'm sure Harris firmly believes what he says. However, as knowledgable and respected as he is, he's also been known to make glaring errors in the past, and this may be one as well.
Old 10-05-07 | 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by baracine
I'm not looking for conspiracies. I think it's understandable that the guy will go to bat for someone he works with every day.
As Supermalet has pointed out there really is very little you could say about Harris in order to negate his reputation. His work is his most ardent supporter...not the other way around as you suggest.

Pro-B
Old 10-05-07 | 03:04 PM
  #196  
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Originally Posted by Josh Z
I certainly don't believe there to be any conspiracy. I'm sure Harris firmly believes what he says. However, as knowledgable and respected as he is, he's also been known to make glaring errors in the past, and this may be one as well.
I'd be much more willing to believe a glaring error than a calculated decision to support the release of a film he did not work on due to a film that he IS working on. If his restoration job relied on him not saying anything bad about Dracula, and he disliked the transfer, I believed he would have simply kept silent.
Old 10-05-07 | 04:04 PM
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Just out of curiosity, what have been some of Harris' glaring errors?
Old 10-05-07 | 07:42 PM
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I am not questioning Harris' achievements. But all Harris said was that the DVD authors followed the answer print. He didn't explain the colour changes or propose any logic why the new darkness of some scenes make some very expensive and very well thought-out special effects like Harker's journal superimposed on his foraging through Dracula castle simply disappear or how firelit faces have been transformed into normally-lit faces or even why the subtitles were changed. Harris was simply defending his profession and his turf and telling us poor mortals to butt out and to refrain from having an opinion.

BTW, I asked DVDSavant Glenn Erickson to weigh in on the controversy. Unfortunately, he is not a fan of the film but he had this to say:

Benoit ... I saw that picture exactly once and disliked it so much I more or less forgot about it. Coppola has his own transfer company and completely re-colored APOCALYPSE NOW from its original look, he also re-framed it and re-edited it in ways I don't like.

So he's drastically changed the look of DRACULA ... it's clear that he has to get out the fingerpaints every time he releases a movie.

HTF sounds like a pretty drastic place -- either one agrees with the studio-aligned bent of the place, or one gets into trouble. I have other observations about the experts that regularly chime in on these subjects, that I wouldn't want to put in print.

Glenn

Last edited by baracine; 10-05-07 at 07:48 PM.
Old 10-06-07 | 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by bunkaroo
Just out of curiosity, what have been some of Harris' glaring errors?
I made a post here a second ago, but I've deleted it because I don't want people to take it the wrong way. I foresee HTF goons linking to the thread and calling me out for disparaging a respected film restorationist.

That isn't my intention. Robert Harris is a knowledgeable man, but like all of us (myself included) will occasionally make errors or voice opinions that others find perplexing. All I will say is that film and video are different animals, and knowledge of one does not necessarily imply technical expertise in the other.
Old 10-06-07 | 09:08 AM
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I watched this tonight and it looked just awesome. It really had a Film look to it, excellent colors and of course a fantastic film. Really enjoyed it and very pleased with the purchase. There is no doubt that most of the people making a ruckus most likely have alterer motives, IMHO.


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