Because there are a lot of HD DVD newcomers here, I think that I should point out that my discussion above was for the HD A3, which does not have analog outputs, so far as I am aware. Some HD DVD players, such as the HD A1, HD XA1, HD XA2, and HD A35, have six channel ("5.1") analog outputs that can be used to hook up the player directly to an older receiver's six channel analog inputs. The player then decodes the audio format and sends it out as an analog feed to the receiver. This allows those of us with older receivers to take advantage of the Dolby TrueHD lossless audio, as well as DD+.

The lower-end HD DVD models, such as the A2 or A3, don't have six channel analog output. So those machines require an HDMI capable receiver to take full advantage of lossless audio. That said, hooking up those players with the S/PDIF optical toslink should sound pretty good — at least as good as SD DVDs sound currently.

This topic has been much discussed in this forum, but I would venture to guess that most of us do not have HT setups that are sufficiently good that we could discern the difference between lossless audio and the "lossy" DD+, DD and DTS formats in a properly controlled trial. I know that I can't (I did a controlled test last year), but I certainly can't speak for those with really fancy speaker setups and "golden ears" (such as Spiky!).

All these abbreviations we use make my eyes glaze over, and I would venture to guess that I'm not the only one, so I provide some definitions:

HDMI = High-Definition Multimedia Interface
This is the current digital connection interface for HD displays and other Home Theater devices.

DVI = Digital Visual Interface
This is the interface that preceded HDMI. It is essentially the same except that it does not contain audio. Cables and adapters can connect between HDMI and DVI devices, so long as the DVI device is HDCP compliant.

HDCP = High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection
This is the copy protection algorithm that is used with DVI and HDMI interfaces.

PCM = Pulse Code Modulation
A digital representation of an analog signal where the magnitude of the signal is sampled regularly at uniform intervals, then quantized to a series of symbols in a digital (usually binary) code. Source: Wikipedia.

L-PCM = Linear Pulse Code Modulation
The sampling is done in a linear fashion, as opposed to something like logorithmic. LPCM and PCM are often used to refer to uncompressed audio feeds in the Home Theater world. But please be aware that how well an LPCM audio track represents the source depends on the sampling rate. An LPCM audio track is not necessarily "transparent" to the source.

Bitstream = Literally, a time series of bits. But as used in Home Theater, bitstream usually refers to a digital data stream that hasn't been decoded yet. If your disc player sends a bitstream to your receiver, the receiver must have the necessary algorithms to decode it (e.g. DD, DTS, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD-MA).

S/PDIF = Sony/Philips Digital Interconnect Format
This is the basic optical or coax connection we have been using with our SD DVD players for a decade now. It does not have the bandwidth for lossless audio and can only support compressed formats, such as the DD (Dolby Digital) or DTS (Digital Theater Systems) that we are familiar with in SD DVD.

TOSLINK = TOShiba LINK
The optical connections that have been used to connect equipment since the days of CD. It was introduced by Toshiba in 1983. It is one of the connections often used with S/PDIF. For more about TOSLINK read this: http://www.audioholics.com/education...history-basics

Dolby TrueHD = Dolby Laboratories' lossless, but compressed, audio format.

DTS-HD MA = DTS-HD Master Audio.
The lossless, but compressed, format introduced by Digital Theater Systems.


[If I've got some of this stuff wrong, please let me know.]

everything looks good, except that there is no HD-XA3 HD DVD player and Toshiba has not announced a player with that model number that i'm aware of. it has been rumored that there never will be an XA3 or other new "flagship" HD DVD player from Toshiba, with the Onkyo and Integra players taking over that part of the market from Toshiba.

Edited to add: the third-gen player with analog outs is the HD-A35. perhaps that is what you intended, instead of XA3.

IIRC, the XA2 is still the 'flagship' model for Toshiba, continuing into the Gen 3 series. The Onkyo will be be taking over those reigns when it launches late this month/early next month.

Here's an article I put together that explains the audio formats in more detail:

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...Explained/1064

It is. I can't keep all the models straight. I'll make the correction. I had forgotten that Toshiba was dropping higher end stuff in favor of Onkyo.

I'm that rare beast: a happy A1 owner with no plans to upgrade.

Josh Z, thanks for that link to your wonderful writeup on HD audio formats. It should be required reading for anyone getting into high def discs.

Joystiq is reporting that there's now a semi-legitimate rumor floating around about the 360 possibly working on a model that has an HD-DVD player built right in.

I'm XA1 owner and I feel the same. since updating to firmware 2.2, I've had no problems.

although I was seriously looking at the Onkyo's, they're just a little too expensive.

I'm part of that club as well.

I like how idiosyncratic that box is. It looks like a fucking tank. My only "upgrade" will be getting a second player to put on my other HDTV. It gets tiring carting stuff from the bedroom to the theatre room.

That rumor has been around longer than the one about gerbils and Richard Gere.

This is true, I mean, I remember them talking about this back when I got Crystalis (NES) on release day ffs.

I don't mind having a separate drive for games and HD-DVD's. Less wear and tear on each and it still only uses one connection to my A/V receiver.

but it would also open up more room for the games on the DVDs...

My only issue w/ my A1 is the load time... But from what I gather, its not really better on any of the newer machines so at this time, Im very content.

^^^Agreed. When there is an HD DVD player that loads as fast as the PS3, then I'll upgrade.

Well, from what i read so far the X360 add-on don't have loading problem... And BB is doing a promotion next week, buy a add-on and get hd-dvd version of Heroes for free, instantly stolen from CAG...

I don't think I understand the NEED 4 SPEED when loading an HD DVD disc. But then again, I'm over 30, so maybe that has something to do with it.

I just don't need the instant gratification. Sure, it takes about 25 seconds to boot up and about 15 seconds to load a disc, but I'm so busy doing something else, I never notice it.

For me, seeing the higher-quality content overrides a few dozen seconds of immediate satisfaction.

It was speculated that they would do it eventually but it was all just from people talking out of their asses. And then they thought it might hpapen with the inclusion of HDMI on the 360. And still nothing. But now there's a source backing this, so, as I said in my original statement, there's now a semi-legitimate rumor to be had here.

I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually brought out a system with HD DVD built in. It should just be a matter of getting the drive prices down so they can add it without raising the price much or at all. It seems that this generation the general trend is to add more stuff to the system rather than to just drop the price.

Microsoft's reason for not including an HD DVD drive previously was that the read times were slower, even for regular DVDs, which would make loading times even longer. And since a hard drive was not a required part of the system spec, they couldn't allow games to cache to the drive to load faster as the PS3 does. However, the word is that GTA IV is going to do exactly that on the 360, so perhaps they've decided to let developers run wild. I hope not, to be honest. My hard drive fills up fast enough as it is.

I'm about a decade over 30, and I don't like the long boot time. It would be one thing if I could insert the disc right away then sit down and wait for the player to power on and then the movie to start up (like how the PS3 works), but unfortunately, I have to turn the player on, then stand around like a dummy waiting for a minute (I have the HD-A1) until I can finally put the movie in, then I get to wait some more, but at least I can be on the couch.

What Toshiba needs to do is have the HD drive power up independently of the main processor, so at least we can load the movie into the drive without having to wait.

That said, I knew what I was getting into when I bought my player over a year ago, as the boot time was widely reported. What I didn't know at the time though was how glitchy the player was (frequent jitter and occasional lock-up). It's to the point I'm happy to make it through a movie without any problems. I'm waiting until next month to pick up a HD-A35, once the Star Trek remote deal kicks in, so hopefully the new machine will be more stable for me.

That will never happen.

According to an insider...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...3&postcount=62

It would be a shame if Gen1 players could not be updated, but the amount of players sold were so low that I'm not sure it would matter to most. I'm sure the Pro-Blu guys would would have a field day if Gen1 couldn't play it, but they have their own issues with 1.1 affecting ALL stand alones coming up in a few days. Several other insiders have confirmed TL51 working in Gen1 machines, but no guarantee as of yet. Please keep in mind the Xbox 360 AO uses the Gen2 drives, so a firmware update for that would work just fine.

kosty is no more an insider than u or i.

I just happened to quote him, several insiders have confirmed what he is said.