DVD Josh

Well, they do offer continuous support to my PS3 in the form of firmware upgrades which significantly improve the units performance.

But mostly, I wasn't silly enough to expect any loyalty from Sony in the first place.

Rusty James

Last time I checked, Toshiba provided firmware upgrades too.

DVD Josh

They sure do Rusty, but I haven't seen any revolutionary new features in my A2.

However, my PS3 now streams media and does several other things it couldn't do before out of the box. Now the A2 isn't meant to do that either, but I paid the same price for both, and one has significantly more features, and is at least on par as a video player.

The A2 is well supported, and the fact they continue to support the A1 is encouraging. It just pissed me off they dropped the price so quickly after it came out.

To address Bus' comment slightly (and you are right man, no doubt), given the "format war", I chose a side and voted with my dollars. A price drop three months later showed me that my loyalty would not be rewarded. Perhaps if they had extended the freebie offer to previous owners I wouldn't have been so angry, but they didn't. So if it's just about who has the most, at the end of the day, I'll choose the side with more studios. I haven't been impressed with many HD-DVD releases outside of the Matrix anyway.

Now we have this A20 report, which may or may not be substantiated yet, but it's not good in my eyes, and makes me wonder about other things, if it is in fact true.

I personally think that after xmas, HD-DVD will be on its last legs. It's a great format, and honestly, I think it's slightly better in terms of a/v, and I prefer the V encoding method over MPEG. But given the PS3 price drop, and the big movies coming out on BD this xmas season that HD-DVD can't come close to matching outside of the HP titles, I think we will have a winner.

Qui Gon Jim

If it makes you feel any better, I'm still waiting for my free titles for buying back last year.

DVD Josh

Come to think of it, so am I. So no, you made me feel worse.

Gizmo

Your kidding me, right? EVERY Bluray player now includes 5 free movies. All have seen substantial pricecuts in the same percentage if not more then the current HD DVD players.

The Bus

That's because the PS3 is a console. The things the PS3 had to be updated to do 360 owners have been able to do since 2005.

Qui Gon Jim

This is true. The cornholes on BD early adopters have been stretched far wider then those of the HD DVD early adopters.

DVD Josh

Keep with the timeline Gizzy. This is 9 months from launch. Toshibia did it THREE MONTHS after. And no, you are also wrong about the last part. HD-DVD has cut their prices by almost 50% on the A2.

DVD Josh

Well Bus, the 360 couldn't play HD-DVD at launch, whereas the PS3 could play Blu-Ray. You need a peripheral. To this day, to get both a gaming system and a HD-DVD player would cost you more with 360 than PS3.

And also, the 360 could only stream in 2005 if you had Windows MCE. Still can today only if you have MCE or Vista.

It's important to note that, console or not, the 20gb PS3 was the same price as the A2 and can do much, much more.

Maxflier

18? How did you come up with that number?

DVD Josh

Incredibly poor math skills. It's more like 9. But that seems more reasonable than 3.

Gizmo

April 18th is when HD DVD launched here in he USA. When did they include 3 free movies by mail? Wasn't it March or April? 1 year after launch. When did Blu-Ray do it? Same thing, 1 year after launch.

HD-A2 had an original MSRP of $499.99, it is now $299.99. Not a 50% drop. If you want to argue that 'blank' store has it for $200, then I can argue that I can get that $1,000 Blu-Ray player for $350 at 'blank' store as well.

Almost ALL Blu-Ray players have seen a 50% drop since launch. That includes the Panasonic, Pioneer, Samsung AND Sony. The $1,000 players are now $499.99 or $599.99. Most have been replaced with newer models and yes, they have all seen the drop to.

Get your dates right and timeline right before you start making these remarks. Blu-Ray only launched a 3-4 months after HD DVD did. They are doing the exact same thing HD DVD is doing. The % of players lowered is HIGHER in the Blu-Ray camp, as is the dollars. I'd be pissed to spend $1,000 on a Sony player that is now $499. Would I as mad had I spent $500 on an A2 which is now $299? No, because thats a $200 drop vs. a $500 one. Lets not forget atleast the HD players won't be paperweights in the next few months.

bunkaroo

The three free by mail was being offered well before March of this year. You may be confusing it with when Toshiba started the 5 free by mail, which was around April of this year. They were offering 3 by mail at least as far back as November of last year.

DVD Josh

Giz, seriously, you are all over the place. We are not even remotely talking about the same thing. You are comparing all sorts of shit that has NOTHING, NOTHING to do with my post. Since I don't normally know you to act like this, I'll just chalk it up to a bad day or something else. I've got my time-lines right. Maybe you to do for what you are talking about, but that's another matter.

To make this clear, I was talking about the A2 and PS3, and my posts make that very obvious.

The A2 came out November 2006. Price drops started three months later, along with the extra two movies. Now, as you said, it's $200 less, a 40% drop (which may not be 50%, but is substantially close and substantially significant).

The PS3 launched in November as well, and the price dropped this week, 9 months later. Even now, it's only $100 less than launch. 9 months is a much more reasonable time from launch to first price drop, and 15% is more reasonable than 40%.

The rest of your numbers may be fine. I don't know. I don't care. That wasn't what I was talking about.

And clearly, you don't know the facts about this "paperweight doomsday" comment you mention. BD players will play BD discs, even the first generation ones. As for paperweights, if the numbers keep going like they are, that's exactly what all of our HD-DVD players will be as well.

So I have my facts straight. Thanks though.

pro-bassoonist

Absolutely right!

Pro-B

Mr. Cinema

True, but they only made about 100 of the 20GB model.

PerryD

Perhaps you meant 100k ?

Josh Z

Though 100 may have been an exaggeration, the actual number was probably a lot closer to that than to 100,000.

Gizmo

The 2 free movies was never a HD DVD Camp thing, it was up to certain retailers who did it. Not everyone did. It wasn't an ongoing thing, it was every 2-3 weeks they would offer two free movies at certain retail stores. Don't confused a store promotion with something the HD DVD camp initiated. Correct me if I am wrong, however I do not recall the HD DVD camp ever making this official in any way.

I am comparing the 5 free movies, as that is something the BDA camp is doing. The 3 free movies mean nothing as the BDA skipped that and went straight to 5, matching the HD camps. Not only that, the BDA is doing that for EVERY Blu-Ray player, even the PS3. I don't see the 5 free movies extended to the 360 HD DVD add-on, do you? The 360 add-on has, at this point IIRC, sold better then all the Blu-Ray standalones in the USA combined. Pretty impressive for something not offering 5 free by mail, or an additional 5 free in box.

An actual HD DVD player and a PS3 are two different things. Game consoles do not drop in price as frequently as, well, DVD players. The A2 dropping a whole $200 while the PS3, which is a GAME CONSOLE first, and a Blu-Ray player second. Yes, that dropped $100 due to many reason, one being low sales. While I would agree it is the best Blu-Ray player on the markey for many reasons, its still a game console. If you think that would drop at the rate as a standalone you are simply crazy. Apples and Oranges.

Even IF HD DVD went neutral and released on Blu-Ray, guess what, my HD DVD player would still function and be able to play all past and current HD DVDs and all the content on them, something that nearly all of these stand alone Blu-Ray players simply will not be able to do.

From my last post, I was referring to these two posts made by you:
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showpost.ph...8&postcount=23
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showpost.ph...2&postcount=34
No where does it indicate you were trying to compare the A2 to a PS3.

Edit: I also understand this is for HD DVD discussion, and not HD vs. BR. If you want to respond to this DVD Josh, feel free to. Just know I won't continue as I don't want to see this thread locked because we are discussing things that we really should not be in theory. The mods here do a great job of making this sub-forum not look like another popular video science forum where the mods all seem to be a major ego rush. This is also not an attack at you in any way as I usually enjoy reading many of your postings. We just both have obvious different opinions and we wouldn't agree with each other on this

PerryD

After a quick google, I see that 20% of initial supply was 20GB, so that would make the total closer to 200k. It's funny that I remember on launch day how PO'd people were when the store would run out of 60GB and they got stuck with the 20GB model.

Pre-launch article:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6157399.html?sid=6157399

Article from Feb 07:
http://ps3.qj.net/PS3-20GB-model-not...g/49/aid/84483
"Karraker said that the ratio between the 60GB model and the 20GB model still remains the same since launch – 80 percent for the former, and 20 percent for the later."

matome

From the first post on the HD Player/Software bargain thread, originated and last edited in Oct/Nov '06:

The current link shows the now 5 free movie offer they're running, but it was certainly direct from Toshiba, running at least as far back as October as well.

DVD Josh

Hey man, I feel the same way about you (that's why I called you Gizzy). I'm sorry if my "keep with the timeline" comment was taken out of context, I didn't mean it to be rude. I guess sometimes i figure since I've been here awhile the people I interact with know me well enough to know my intentions are good.

We can disagree and be cool about it. I love my HD-DVD, and I've gone on record several times as saying it's my preferred technology. I just feel a little alienated and betrayed, and whether that's reasonable or not is irrelevant to me. But as most of us know, it's seldom the best technology that wins

All that said, I'm hoping that the sub-$200 players and big releases on HD this xmas puts some wind back into HD-DVD's sails and makes this a real competition.

DVD Josh

It's funny in a way because around here, ALL I could find were the 20 gig models. I finally settled on one because I wanted the system and didn't need the wi-fi.

Josh Z

I never once saw a 20gb at retail. All that was sold around here were 60gb. I even asked a few of the stores if they had the 20gb model somewhere I wasn't looking or out back, and they all told me they had never been shipped any.