I'm actually giving you a great comparison. I don't think you have fully understood. Let me explain further. Before this strategy, studios were putting tons of extras on one release and pricing it very affordably. Remember the days of 14.99 releases, I do. Now they figured out the double dip, the unrated cut, extended cut etc. They figured it's better to trickle out extras than just pile them into one release and have no future revenue stream.

Isn't in obvious why the prices are different? Maybe you forgot that extras cost money. They are not free. This is precisely the reason for the dual release. One for the masses and one for the people who want the extras too.

Yeah, good points.

I think it just shows the likelyhood that all these formats are so closely related that they will all (at least one hd format and dvd) co-exist until the next big format jump takes place.

Many times, some audio formats will be set for a louder default volume than other audio formats. For example, DTS routinely sets their tracks 4 dB or more louder than Dolby Digital. PCM tracks are likewise usually set louder than TrueHD. To most casual listeners, louder is perceived as "better", when in fact it's really just louder. A small difference in volume may not seem very much louder, but it nonetheless colors your perception of the quality.

You say that you can suddenly hear all sorts of subtle details that you couldn't hear before? Of course you can, because it's louder. Those audio waves are making your eardrums vibrate more. Turn up the volume on the other track to the same level, and wow all those details will magically appear there too.

If you're going to make a definitive statement that one audio format is better than the other, the only fair comparison is to use a sound level meter to match the two tracks to the same volume. If you haven't bothered to do that, your opinion is uninformed.

Have you ever even calibrated your audio equipment? Are the speakers you use actually capable of reproducing the distinction between a lossy track and a lossless one? For that matter, are your ears? How good is your hearing? If you're over 30, you have already physiologically lost the ability to discern many sound frequencies. And if you've spent a good amount of time at deafening rock concerts in your life, the likelihood of your being able to tell the difference between two audio formats in a blind test is significantly reduced.

These are questions you should take very seriously before making conclusive pronouncements about technical matters like these.

By no means am I against lossless audio tracks. What I am against is the perpetuation of ignorance and these ridiculous myths, such as believing that bit rate is the only important factor in determining the quality of something.

If the people who mix these movie soundtracks for a living can't tell the difference between 1509 kb/s DD+ and a lossless track when listening on a professional dub stage, why should I give any credence to anonymous posters on the internet, many of whom are judging such things with $150 home-theater-in-a-box speakers?

If you go to AVSForum right now, there's actually a thread where some twit is trying to 'school' poster "Filmmixer" about how much better the We Were Soliders soundtrack would be if it were lossless. He's telling this to the very man who mixed the damn movie he's talking about!

I used to be like you. I was absolutely certain that I had such astute hearing that I could tell the difference between two audio formats no problem. Then I had someone sit me down for a blind test and it absolutely shook me up and set me straight. I recommend the same of everyone.

I have no problem believing DD+ is good enough. I very much doubt I could hear the difference on a typical movie soundtrack, and I am trained musician. (Note: I do believe I would hear it on say a lossless vs. lossy music track.)

But my question is this: why use TrueHD at all if DD+ is good enough? They should just say it's a checkbox and be done with it.

The biggest thing I fear is the "good enough" mentality permeating into other aspects of HDM. Will 1080i be deemed "good enough"? Will 480i/p extras always be "good enough"? Will a 6 year old transfer be "good enough"?

Completely agree....I think alot of people on AVS are waaaay too interested in watching the bitrate number meter on the machines instead of the movies. I sometimes wish hardware companies never put that ability on there.

Still waiting for a response to the rest of my post.

This is the post, correct?

Fox sucks, we get it.

Fox owns so many great movies, Sony needs to give them a financial boost to get their titles out and at a reasonable price.

TDK and Samsung have joined forces to promote Blu-Ray in Europe in what appear to be a similar to the Disney tour event. Titled simply the TDK Trailer the show took off in Barcelona with planned stops at the Venice International Film Festival, The Rome Film Fest, London, Paris, and Berlin.

Shots are courtesy of the Italian AVMagazine:





Full article:

Blu-ray al Roma Film Fest:

Dopo l'inaspettato successo di visitatori, TDK Trailer lascia il Festival del Cinema di Venezia e prosegue il suo Tour verso Roma. Il prossimo appuntamento sarà infatti dal 18 al 27 ottobre al Roma Film Fest, presso l'Auditorium Parco della Musica. La presenza di TDK alla Festa del Cinema di Roma sarà ancora più ricca: TDK è sponsor di New Cinema Network, iniziativa volta a sostenere lo sviluppo finanziario dei progetti cinematografici di registi emergenti di tutto il mondo. TDK dedica ai produttori e giovani registi un incontro dedicato all'Alta Definizione e alle nuove possibilità offerte dal Blu-ray, di cui TDK è uno dei promotori.

Il TDK Trailer è un affascinante percorso emozionale attraverso le tecnologie che hanno dato origine al passato artistico e culturale di TDK: dalla mitica cassetta al disco Blu-ray, un’occasione quindi per lanciare questo formato ad un audience più vasto e soprattutto per far percepire e testare dal vivo la differenza tra bassa e alta definizione. TDK Trailer è costituito da due container mobili, componibili e affiancabili in un percorso suddiviso in 3 aree: l’ingresso che accoglie il visitatore, l’area dedicata alla rappresentazione di piccoli scenari: grazie alla collaborazione delle aziende Zanotta e Flos, il visitatore potrà ammirare le microambientazioni che attraverso alcuni prodotti significativi rappresentano gli ultimi decenni del design. La terza parte del percorso, la sala definita "Blu-ray room", coinvolge il visitatore in un’esperienza di ascolto e visiva mai provate prima ed è allestita con schermi ad alta definizione e schermi con immagini in bassa definizione che sottolineano la differenza tra la visione attuale in DVD e la nuova dimensione del Blu-ray.

l progetto è stato messo a punto da Smashing Production, agenzia creativa e casa di produzione con base nel cuore della capitale inglese e dallo studio italiano di architettura e industrial design Bertero Panto Marzoli, che hanno reinventato con originalità la funzione espositiva museale nei "truck", consentendo di conciliare il carattere itinerante con il forte carattere innovativo dell’evento che toccherà i grandi festival, cinematografici e culturali europei. A Venezia sono stati contati oltre 5000 ospiti che hanno ricordato gli ultimi 40 anni attraverso oggetti tecnologici e di design. Nell'arco delle 11 giornate sono stati lasciati oltre 2000 commenti positivi nel Guest Book, sono state distribuite 5000 magliette, 4000 portachiavi, 4000 brochure, 50 ombrelli e 5000 shopping bag.

"Lo spazio espositivo del trailer TDK, collocato a due passi dal Red Carpet, che ripercorre la storia dei supporti digitali dagli anni ’70, gli ‘80, i ’90, fino ad arrivare all’era Blu-ray, mostrando le potenzialità dell’alta definizione – commenta Andrew Burrows, marketing communications manager di TDK Europe – ha visto oltre 5000 visite guidate di circa 2 minuti l’una con una punta massima di 512 visitatori nella giornata di sabato 1 settembre. Abbiamo raggiunto ottimi risultati in termini di branding su un target di appassionati di alta definizione che hanno lasciato un segno tangibile del loro apprezzamento firmando oltre 2000 commenti positivi nel libro degli ospiti."

Il Blu-ray Trailer Tour è stato inaugurato a Barcellona a giugno, con un "evento 0", durante il Festival Sonar, annuale appuntamento di musica elettronica. Trailer TDK si sposterà per altre ulteriori tappe europee a Londra, Parigi e Berlino.

Ciao,

Pro-B

Spiffy. Too bad we're not getting that in America.

Bitrate meters and lossless tracks have made instant "experts" out of a lot of people who buy an HDM player. It's those same people who often embarrass themselves by talking authoritatively about things they haven't taken the time to understand.

Do you really think they feel the embarrassment?

Like why there are still black bars on certain movies...

No, they haven't a clue. But they think they do and babble on with such authority. That's why it's embarrassing to behold.

The bitrate stuff reminds me of that scene in Ruthless People when Judge Reinhold sells a pair of gigantic speakers to the kid who thinks the bigger the speaker, the better they are.

In light of the recent Toshiba statement for reclaiming their lead in the stand-alone unit sales, after refuting Sony's statement pointing better BR stand-alone unit sales earlier this summer, here's an interesting article with Warner chiming in. The piece points to two very revealing bits of news:

1. PS3 owners are a force to reckon with when it comes to film sales (Toshiba's latest sales count once again excludes them).

2. The PS3 1.1 firmware upgrade is upcoming



Article source:
http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6488844.html

OCT. 10 | UNIVERSAL CITY, Calif.--Supporters of the HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc high-definition formats locked horns at the HDTV DisplaySearch conference here Wednesday, but all participants ultimately agreed they were heartened by the fact that consumers are adopting high-def discs, even slowly.

“The chances are pretty slim” that high-def won’t succeed, said Don Eklund, executive VP of advanced technologies for Sony Pictures Home Entertainment. “There are obstacles in getting consumers to appreciate it, but it’s inevitable it will roll. Satellite and cable do a good job of indoctrinating people to high-def and by extension high-def packaged media.”

Currently, high-def stand-alone players comprise a 5% unit share within the total DVD player market, according to DisplaySearch. Although that is small, that share has significantly improved in recent weeks. Between April 2006 and August 2007, next-gen set-tops totaled just 1.3% of the overall DVD player market.

By year end, there should be about 1 million Blu-ray and HD DVD set-top units sold, the research concern predicts.

On a revenue basis, next-gen players carved out a 27% share of the overall market during the month of August. That marks a rise from next-gen’s 11% share between April 2006 and August 2007.

Software is in a similar boat, selling a relatively small amount within the greater home entertainment landscape, with $150 million in cumulative Blu-ray and HD DVD revenue to date. Unit sales are at 4.5 million at this point.

Research comes from a combination of findings from sister companies DisplaySearch and NPD Group.

“Without a format war, adoption might be higher,” said Ross Young, founder and president of DisplaySearch. “But [high-def] is coming.”

Russ Crupnick, VP and senior industry analyst for NPD, said just 11% of people surveyed by NPD said they planned to purchase a next-gen set-top in the next six months.

Also, PlayStation 3’s dominance within the high-def player field has not yet translated to strong viewing of compatible Blu-ray titles. Less than half of PS3 users are watching Blu-ray films.

Plus, standard-definition upconverting DVD players, still attractively pried below high-def players, are growing faster in overall DVD market share than next-gen players. Upconverting players command 27% of the market on a unit basis, dwarfing high-def’s 5% share.

But Crupnick believes that once people try high-def packaged media playback they will become cheerleaders for the new formats.

“How do we go from confusion to forecasts that say that in a few years half the market will be high-def?” he asked. “It’s the experiences of people with next-gen. About 90% [of those recently polled] said they were extremely satisfied with their next-gen player purchase. You don’t usually see those kinds of numbers.”

High-def hardware owners said that every two of three packaged media purchases were next-gen, according to NPD research.

Despite proof of some progress, studio executives remain concerned over the format war stifling sales. According NPD polling, 54% of people said they didn’t want to go high-def because of the format war.

In the name of eventually ending it, Blu-ray and HD DVD executives tried to convince conference-goers of the superiority of their respective camps.

HD DVD participants were quick to needle the Blu-ray folks over PS3 gamers’ measured use of the system’s Blu-ray player. They also claimed victories in software, as the only Web-enabled titles released to date are on HD DVD. Universal Studios Home Entertainment’s Evan Almighty, which was released on Tuesday, is the first home entertainment title to extensively offer e-commerce.

Striking back, Blu-ray supporters insisted that consumers adopt high-def because of great content resolution, not bonus features. Regardless of gamers’ film activities, Blu-ray titles are out-selling HD DVD titles by a two-to-one ratio.

Warner Home Video’s 300 HD DVD title, one of the first releases to offer Web-based interactivity, sold half as many copies as the 300 Blu-ray version, which lacked those advanced features. Also, Warner VP of high-def marketing Dan Silverburg primarily credits PS3 users for what the studio believes is an impressive quarter of a million units sold of 300 on Blu-ray.

“For people who buy HDTVs, the intent is not to interact with it—it’s so they can have high-definition viewing,” said Andy Parsons, senior VP at Pioneer Electronics and chair of the Blu-ray Disc Assn.’s U.S. Promotion Committee. “Interactivity is nice, but it’s not causing people to say I won’t watch the movie [if it’s absent].”

However, HD DVD’s interactivity best mirrors the lifestyle of today’s growing YouTube, MySpace and Facebook fan base, countered Alan Bell, executive VP and chief technology officer at Paramount Pictures.

“Each of the formats creates great picture and sound, but we need something more to sell next-generation,” he said. “For younger folks, their choice of entertainment is to interact with others. Also, [Web interactivity] is an exciting transition between playing DVD and five to 10 years from now when things are digital.”

PS3 is expected to soon offer a firmware upgrade to boost its Blu-ray interactivity functionality, noted Sony’s Eklund.


Pro-B

I sincerely hope the PS3 gets an upgrade for 1.1 compatibility, they had also better add DTS-HD MA compatibility, as well.

Also, it's no surprise that the PS3 demographic was the driving force behind the Blu-ray sales of 300, because they are THE target group for that movie. If you notice, earlier in the article, it states that less than half of PS3 owners are buying Blu-ray movies.

But the best part of that article is that it's showing the overall growth of HD in the marketplace. That's something we can all be happy about.

Anyone watch "Attack of the Show" on G4? Their DVDuesday film critic is a joke. He knows NOTHING about the highdef formats. This week, he claimed that F4: Silver Surfer had interactive web content and that it was really cool!

When Heroes came out, he said it was available on both HD-DVD and BD. Everytime I hear him review a highdef release, he doesnt seem to know what he is talking about.

Can anyone explain to me why other hardware manafacturers support Blu-Ray besides Sony?

Right now Sony controls the Blu-Ray standard, makes the only Blu-Ray player that is seemingly capable of supporting future Blu Ray developments (PS3), sells the cheapest Blu Ray Player (PS3 with its upcoming price drop)...why other hardware companies support it is beyond me.

And yes, the same arguments could made on the other side for HD-DVD and Toshiba.

From your own article:
And finally,

Well of course they would credit the PS3, its the only Blu Ray player with any type of market penetration. The rest of the individual players are spread out for the slim pickings of the remaining Blu Ray hardware market.

^Blu-Ray standalones are now selling just as well or better than HD-DVD standalones.

To quote Inspector Clouseau: "not anymore". Check the General HD DVD News thread for details.

Because there are lots of people like me who won't buy a PS3 to use for movie playback?

Hence the "or" in there. I just said that since chanster is implying that no one buys standalones BD players. How was the sales breakdown percentage for standalones, say last year?

Sorry, but your previous statement was that BD stand-alones were "selling just as well or better" than HD DVD stand-alones. Since HD DVD stand-alone sales are actually better than BD stand-alone sales, your statement was incorrect.

As for the sales breakdown for last year, I don't have those figures and I'm -- quite frankly -- too lazy to look them up. Given that the stand-alone figures we're discussing, though, do not include sales of the PS3 or the 360 add-on, I think it's pretty safe to assume that HD DVD stand-alone sales were much stronger than those of BD stand-alones. Please do let me know if I'm wrong, though.