I wonder if Bill Hunt asked Blu Ray all those tough questions during the party that was paid by them. The shill who originally came up with this rumor also stated that the party was pretty awesome.

These are the same kinds of standard consumers that stand around and say 'well I don't like widescreen because it's chopping picture off my screen'. *sigh*

He just outed his friend as a moron. Yes, there's labels and logo's and even a split between red cases and blue cases. How big of an idiot could his friend have been?

But hey, he went for HD-DVD as the standard consumer, because it was cheaper... right?

This is why I think if many studios became neutral and prices remained in the spot they're at now, HD-DVD would win. Familiarity with name, cheaper...

But Blu-Ray will reduce its cost over time as well. But for now I'll just stick with looking at the facts and the numbers, that HD-DVD is doing a bit better than Blu-Ray at the moment.

I said this in another post just recently but I bought my A20 as an upconverting DVD player with perks... read: that I can watch HD-DVD's as well. I'm not plunking a fortune into the titles, just the ones I truly feel are deserving of being viewed in HD. Stuff like 'The 40 Year Old Virgin' I won't be buying. So if either format wins right now, makes no difference to me. I do like HD-DVD overall though for numerous reasons, one being that it's cheaper, yes... and another being that Sony is terrible when it comes to consumer relations.

That's one of the reasons why the head of ValueElectronics.com said that he favors HD DVD over Blu-ray, even though he sells both. The HD DVD reps are easy to contact and connect with. His Sony reps on the other hand can't be bothered to return his calls.

Well that would be for business relations, but yeah, that's pretty crappy as well. Consumer relations aren't much better. I won't say much more about this though as I don't want to turn this thread into a typical Sony: good vs bad debate.

What I will say however, is that I like HD-DVD again because of price, and I like their consistancy. They've had the better transfer quality out of the gate, where it took Blu-Ray some time to get there. They were using discs with more space on them but HD looks just fine with the discs that don't hold as much as Blu-Ray does... King Kong is easily probably the best looking HD disc in either format... and it's done on a disc that's gigs below the Blu-Ray standard. It seems to me that HD-DVD have it done where Sony have been trying to tinker with the process until it's done correctly... and in the meantime consumers were buying inferior discs on Blu-Ray.

Guys, the last time we got into TDB/Bill Hunt thing, I think many of us were probably one post away from being suspended. That thread was closed for good reason. I think that the members made it well known their opinions on Bill either for better or worse and it's a dead issue. Don't let yourselves be sucked back into it, only bad things can come of it.

I would bet that these titles would not be open-region.

I agree that if Universal were to flip, it would mean the end of HD DVD. It would also mark the "fire sale" where we'll get plenty of titles on clearance. I'd like to see HD DVD "win" but I wouldn't be devastated if the outcome of the war is a player with a bunch of titles I got on the cheap along with another player to get all future releases on.

Of course this was all bullshit. Again this "rumor" started back up.

I'll ask again: If there were 100% equal content available on both formats, and new releases kept coming out at a steady rate, why should it matter to you whether one format won or both survived equally? What does it matter to you whether Joe Sixpack buys into HD or whether HD replaces DVD?

Are you posting as an employee or investor of one of the corporations involved, or are you posting as a movie fan who wants High Definition discs to watch?

Josh, I'm not sure we are arguing about the same things. If you are asking ME, I don't care. I've posted before that if both survived and were strong, I'd buy whichever was cheaper.

It matters to ME that J6P buys into HD and that it replaces DVD because I am but one man. If J6P doesn't embrace the technology and buy it along with me, then HD/BD will be nothing more than LD to the US. I post as a movie fan who has the realistic view that we are going to need J6P in order for HD/BD, whichever one, to keep things afloat. 1% of the market is nothing. If we don't see some serious inroads this xmas we are facing a real problem in terms of the survival of these formats.

The only real chance of either format surviving is there to be only HD format. Again, it doesn't matter to ME what that is, but J6P isn't going to trouble themselves with HD vs. BD debates. Confusion in the marketplace only leads to reversion to the status quo.

Plus, I hope after six years of posting together you know by now I'm not a corporate shill.

Agreed - give it a rest.

I get what you're saying, but I don't really agree with it. I don't think there's any chance this is Laserdisc situation. You're already seeing Blu Ray/HD-DVD in mainstream stores, you're already seeing studios support of the formats, and you're already seeing reasonable prices. These are things that were basically not true of Laserdisc.

I really don't see how High Def becomes a niche format. With backwards compatability, anyone can buy in and still be fine with DVD. Prices will fall enough that everyone will buy a Blu Ray or HD DVD player, even if they just want to play DVDs. It seems inevitable to me. So I don't get the fear about J6P not adapting and I don't see why I should really care.

I mean what's the worst that could happen? Do you think studios will stop releasing HD content and/or raise prices? Even if growth is slow, I can't see either happening. I just don't see what the problem is with two formats is, and I'd agree with what Josh Z is saying.

Jericho: I remember a long time ago I could find Laserdisc at a lot of places. Not K-Mart, but I saw a lot of it. Also, Best Buy and Circuit City set up dedicated SACD/DVD-A displays.

It would be nice if everyone supported both formats. Then the whole studio content issue would be a moot point. The closest I can get to hoping BV will go neutral is the fact that they just partnered with Microsoft to bring HD movies onto Xbox Live. But LGF did this last year and lo and behold, no LGF on HD DVD.

Universal and Sony are nothing next to Disney/BV. Their catalog and strength of releases is second only to Warner Brothers. Don't kid yourself and think that the smaller studios (Starz/AB, LGF to an extent, Weinstein, Magnolia) make much of a difference.

I can easily see HD discs remaining a niche format. I wonder how many people with shiny new HDTVs are actually watching HD content? I wonder how many of those people play a DVD on their shiny new HDTV and are amazed?

Software format availability aside, I think the price of BD hardware is still too high to gain mass acceptance by the average Joe and the only reason it is as low as it is right now is to compete with HD. Hell, I'm not J6P and I love my Fox and Disney titles but even I could not afford to go Blu yet. Maybe if I was a console gamer instead of a PC gamer it might not be so much a question of cost since I would get more value from the purchase of a PS3. Additionally, when J6P buys his first HDTV, the increased screen size and resolution and automatic upconversion by the TV for current DVDs may have enough of a WOW factor that the additional benefit of BD/HD might not have the same impact to warrant the "need" for BD/HD.
So I think, even if BD had Universal today it would still be quite a while before there is any substantial market based strictly on price. And that may take longer to drop once there is no inter-format competition leaving only competition between manufacturers.

On the other hand, if HD had more studio support from at least Fox and Disney, I could see HD making faster progress reaching J6P due to a more accessible price point.

Agreed, and I can live with it. :)

I agree for now, but do you remember what DVD players sold for when they first came out in 97? Even cheaper players were no less than $399 at the time. I don't plan on it happening soon but I very much hope either BD or HD-DVD ends up replacing DVDs. The technology is too good to let die off. I'm looking 5-10 years into the future though.

Laserdisc was a niche format that lasted 20 years and had thousands of titles available. If you were a movie fan with a laserdisc player, there was plenty of content to watch on it, including every single new theatrical feature. So, aside from the manufacturers and studios who wished for higher sales numbers, what difference did it make to the end consumers whether Joe Sixpack bought into the format?

No, I'm certainly not making any accusations. I'm just trying to debunk the myth that being a niche format is some terrible outcome. Other than to the multi-national corporations with a financial investment in them, it makes no difference whatsoever to end consumers whether the formats gain mass acceptance or remains a niche. So why do people get so riled up rooting for them, as if they were rival sports teams?

Man, I don't ever remember people getting this passionate when it comes to electronics ever! I'm a blu-ray supporter but if HD-DVD won the war, I would have no problem switching over and start buying HD-DVDs.

I've heard people on other forums say that if the opposing side won, that they would go back to standard dvds rather than the victor. I thought we were all in this for the best medium to watch the films we love.

There are upsides to wide adoption -- lower prices and more ready availability -- but I'm in the same boat. If the guy three houses down that I've never spoken to buys or doesn't buy an HD DVD or Blu-ray deck, that doesn't affect the quality of what I see in my living room. As long as there's a steady stream of titles, as long the bar for quality doesn't drop, and as long as the prices aren't outrageous, I'm happy.

I thought Universal had the second largest library after Warners. Aside from the classic animated movies, what does Disney have that is great? If you're talking catalogs, not only does Universal have most of the Spielberg classics, but also all the monster movies, Back to the Future, among many others. I'll take their catalog over anyone's.

Having two formats being supported is good for us, but the retailers will not tolerate that. Retailers, as you know, have limited shelf space and eventually they will choose one format. We don’t know which one that is right now, but they will only choose one. Think about this: you’re walking through Best Buy or Circuit City 3 years from now and you see an HD-DVD and a BD of every title. That could be hundreds of titles. Do you think for a minute that this would be an acceptable situation for a retailer? Hell no.

Do you guys want more titles on HD or less? If you want both BD and HD-DVD to survive, we are going to see fewer titles on shelves and if you’re a movie fan this is not a good thing. Unless Warner gets everyone on board with their TotalHD disc which I don’t see happening, this war will continue on. To me, I thought this format war ended up being a good thing because it drove down prices much faster than having one format could have, but now we are getting to crunch time and we need to have a format chosen soon.

Agreed. I'm pretty much split down the middle in terms of format (81 HD, 70 BD), and it's all about getting the films I want.

My personal opinion is that whether or not HD-DVD endures, it won't "knock out" Blu-Ray. I think the best HD-DVD can hope for is co-existence. I really don't care what format I buy the movies on, as long as I can get them in high def. I'm already past the part of having to get both players, so at this point, the only difference it makes to me is which player I stick a disc in and which device I select on my universal remote. After that, it's just watching movies.

Right now I buy all Paramount's and WB's available on both formats as Blu-Ray as long as there is no significant audio difference between the two. I also love that I can avoid the combo by buying WB Blu-Ray's.

But in the end, I don't care what format or formats win, as long as I can keep buying the hardware and software I need to enjoy high def movies.

On the specific topic, if you forget about Fox who have chosen, as evident by their own actions, to be neutral by not releasing anything, you have LG, Disney and Sony.

Now, I don't think LG would be hard to sway, but Disney would be very tough, and let's face it, you will never see a Sony film on HD-DVD as long they can still sell a Blu-Ray player. So in my opinion, the best thing that HD-DVD could hope for is a flip-flop of the current situation, where all studios support their format except one. But with Fox's massive paranoia about copy protection, I don't see them ever releasing on HD-DVD in its current state.

So if both formats stay somewhat niche, but are available for years, that's fine by me.

Also, let's not forget Universal has been one of the worst studios for quality control throughout DVD and even HD-DVD.

Jurassic Park, one of the biggest releases on DVD at the time had messed up audio.

The release of E.T. was marred by having a DTS track on the 2-disc edition's 1982 cut while it was left off the disc included in the gift set.

Back To The Future Parts 2 and 3 both had incorrect framing and were release even though Uni knew it was wrong.

Monty Python's The Meaning Of Life had an incorrect flag and required an exchange program.

Widespread defective DVD-18's on Uni movies and TV sets including Casino, Mallrats, Blues Brothers, Dune, Frighteners and multiple TV releases.

Defective HD-DVD releases of Children of Men, The Good Shepherd and Smokin' Aces.

I'm just glad there's been competition from the other side. If there was only one format, who knows if Uni would have any incentive to keep from f'ing things up on a regular basis.

This is my worry as well. How eager will the studios be to dig deep into their catalog if we have 2 formats, with limited mass appeal? Not sure about the rest of you, but I'd love to see all Spielberg titles and Star Wars on a HD disc some day. IMO, 1 format will get us there much faster.

Of course this amounts to nothing more than unsubstantiated rumor, but a friend with close ties to Disney indicated that Disney's involvement with BD was because Sony is providing them with cameras and computers. He also indicated that they have actually been prepping both formats this entire time.

Miramax, Touchstone, etc. I'm not saying that Disney (nee Buena Vista) is "better" than Universal or Sony or anyone else. But from a business standpoint, their catalog is probably worth a lot.