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High-def player sales even, says NPD Group

Old 02-03-07, 12:09 PM
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High-def player sales even, says NPD Group

Tight supply of Toshiba HD DVD models could be a factor

Despite price differences, high-definition stand-alone Blu-ray and HD DVD players are neck-and-neck in sales, according to the NPD Group.

Between April and December, 48% of high-def stand-alones sold were Blu-ray and the remaining 52% were HD DVD. Blu-ray stand-alones, including models by Sony, Samsung, Philips and Pioneer, are priced at about $1,000 and up. In contrast, certain Toshiba HD DVD models can be found for about $500.

NPD’s data excludes sales of high-def gaming devices, the Blu-ray-compatible PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360’s HD DVD drive. NPD plans to update this information on a quarterly basis.
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Old 02-03-07, 01:44 PM
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Interesting. I'd still say the average attach rate for HD DVD is slightly higher. HD DVD had the lead in sales for months and it was only in recent weeks that Blu-Ray sales showed any signs of life.

I also have a theory that sales for software are highest (per player) in the first 6-8 weeks of ownership, while it's still new. The average person picks up a player because they want to see a couple of movies that are already on HD. After a few weeks, they need to wait on new releases to get new stuff, so they don't buy as much. But this is assuming both formats have equally exciting new releases, and Blu-Ray obviously is outdoing HD DVD as of right now (Casino Royale, Prestige, Open Season) etc.
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Old 02-03-07, 02:26 PM
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Your theory is certainly true as far as this particular poster is concerned (on all formats, and in all areas of entertainment). There are some consumers who seem to buy discs simply to have something shiny and new to show off their new toy, though I suspect they are highly atypical.
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Old 02-03-07, 02:30 PM
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So even though the PS3 isn't included in the figures and the standalone BD players cost 2-3X as much as some of the HD DVD players do, the formats are practically even in terms of hardware sales. - WOW! That says a lot!!

Last edited by Nevi; 02-03-07 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 02-03-07, 02:57 PM
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This thread says HD DVD is outselling BD standalones by a 5-1 margin.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=788459
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Old 02-03-07, 04:26 PM
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The Adams Media Research report hasn't stood the test of time too well, has it. First Toshiba come out with lower figures for their HD DVD sales, then PS3 sales figures are higher, and now BD stand-alones appear to be higher as well. In fact it seems Adam got just about everything wrong.
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Old 02-03-07, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
This thread says HD DVD is outselling BD standalones by a 5-1 margin.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=788459
So the question is which article's info is correct? Or do both of them contain flawed figures?
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Old 02-03-07, 05:15 PM
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I can tell you with certainty that some discs titles sell better on the BD while some titles sell better on HD-DVD. The discs that sell better on the BD beat HD-DVD by a wide margin while the discs that sell better on HD-DVD, beat BD by a smaller margin.
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Old 02-04-07, 07:56 AM
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Toshiba, Universal, and Microsoft really need to start a marketing campaign for HD-DVD. I'm sure the three of them could have easily pooled the money for a spot tonight on the Super Bowl showing off the 360 drive and 2-3 top titles (Kong, Batman Begins, etc.)
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Old 02-04-07, 08:29 AM
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And HomeMedia Magazine, says BD is outselling HD 2-1! (info provided by thedigitalbits)

"year-to-Date tracking indicated that for every 47.14 HD-DVDs sold there were 100 Blu-ray Disc titles sold. Just a week later, ending 1/14/07, the same YTD tracking indicated just 38.36 HD-DVDs sold for every 100 Blu-ray Discs sold. What's more, tracking by Nielsen VideoScan since the inception of both formats appears to indicate that Blu-ray Disc is quickly erasing the sales lead HD-DVD enjoyed as a result of launching months earlier in 2006. On 1/7, HD-DVD's lead was 100 discs for every 85.05 Blu-ray Discs sold, while just a week later on 1/14, that lead had been reduced to 100 HD-DVDs for every 92.40 Blu-ray Discs sold. the margin could grow to as much as 3 to 1 in early 2007."

I HATE THIS WAR!!! END IT NOW!!
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Old 02-04-07, 09:29 AM
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I know that Amazon is not the best source, but right now here are some numbers for discs being released on both formats. They are pretty even overall.

The Departed Blu-Ray #57
The Departed HD DVD #72

Babel Blu-Ray #339
Babel HD DVD #564

NIN Beside You in Time Blu-Ray #710
NIN Beside You in Time HD DVD #957

Bullitt Blu-Ray #3,300
Bullitt HD DVD #2,700

The Getaway Blu-ray #6,033
The Getaway HD DVD #4,120

Last edited by fryinpan1; 02-04-07 at 09:34 AM.
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Old 02-04-07, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by NitroJMS
Toshiba, Universal, and Microsoft really need to start a marketing campaign for HD-DVD. I'm sure the three of them could have easily pooled the money for a spot tonight on the Super Bowl showing off the 360 drive and 2-3 top titles (Kong, Batman Begins, etc.)
The HD DVD Mobile Tour was in Miami yesterday.

This thread states that Toshiba has secured placement for the Toshiba HD DVD commercial during the big game:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=799140

New York - 3x :30 spots
1x 11AM - 2PM NFL Pre-show
1x In-game
1x 11:30 PM - 12 Mid Late News

Los Angeles - 4x :30 spots
1x 9:30 - 10AM - Road to the Super Bowl
1x 11AM - 2PM Pre-game
1x In-game
1x 8-10PM Late News or Super Bowl wrap-up
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Old 02-04-07, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by fryinpan1
I know that Amazon is not the best source, but right now here are some numbers for discs being released on both formats. They are pretty even overall.

The Departed Blu-Ray #57
The Departed HD DVD #72
The DVD Wars

Sales ranks of top10 titles on each format for the last 30 days.



As an absolute measure sales rankings are meaningless. But over a long enough period of time they can reveal trends, which might be worthwhile.
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Old 02-07-07, 01:06 AM
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NPD is a VERY well respected market research group...
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Old 02-07-07, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Davy Mack
NPD is a VERY well respected market research group...
Yes and videoscan is great at numbers.
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Old 02-07-07, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
Yes and videoscan is great at numbers.
Maybe it's not perfect, but it's the best we have.
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Old 02-07-07, 10:51 AM
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I don't buy it. I realize that Amazon is only one data point, but for the majority of Q4 of 2006 the HD-A1 had a sales ranking 2x to 3x better than its nearest BR competitor. What that translates into as far as raw unit sales, we don't know, but more is more.

Also, for 2007, the sales rank of the A2 has been an ORDER OF MAGNITUDE better than any other standalone. Add to this the reports of the A2 selling out at various retailers, and I cannot imagine HD-DVD standalones not being markedly ahead.

Of course most of the "numbers" we see released as reports for both hardware and software sales are sole-source, meaning there's little, if any corroboration. Also, we get post-processed statistics without any idea what was or was not included in calculating the numbers in the reports. I question agendas when we don't know who is paying for the research.

Real world anecdotal reports seem to continually fly in the face of these "reliable" numbers. From a logical standpoint, given the significantly higher cost of BR standalones, I have a hard time believing they sell the same numbers as HD-DVD standalones; the only reason I can come up with is possibly availability -- that Toshiba could be selling a sh*tload more HD-DVD players, but there isn't enough supply to meet demand, hence the numbers are kept down.
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Old 02-07-07, 12:31 PM
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So, is NPD including ALL sales? or are they excluding online sales similar to what Videoscan did with media some time back?
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Old 02-07-07, 01:02 PM
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I don't know about the A2 selling out. I could have bought half a dozen the last time I was at Best Buy. They have been in stock at Best Buy since they were released and from my anecdotal evidence people are now choosing the PS3 over the A2 if they are debating on jumping into HD video. Why pay $500 for a standalone when you can get a game system (with no games worth buying oddly enough) for the same price or $100 more. Best Buy is also heavily promoting Blu-ray movies and when you talk to their employees they will push you towards a PS3 or BD standalone every time.

If people are buying A2 units it is probably online where they are under $400.
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Old 02-12-07, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by darkside
Why pay $500 for a standalone when you can get a game system (with no games worth buying oddly enough) for the same price or $100 more.
Because the standalone component will almost always be higher quality.
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Old 02-12-07, 07:46 PM
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Except the PS3 is just about the same quality as any standalones. Normally, though, I would agree.
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Old 02-12-07, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Breakfast with Girls
Because the standalone component will almost always be higher quality.
The PS3 is an exception though. It outclasses all current BD players with features even the $1300 player lacks. It sucks at regular DVD playback, but is an outstanding BD player.
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Old 02-13-07, 01:22 AM
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Methinks HD-DVD is beginning to lose steam.
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Old 02-13-07, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by darkside
It sucks at regular DVD playback, but is an outstanding BD player.
While I agree that it sucks as a dvd player, I wouldnt call it outstanding as a BD player. Its pretty good, but I think the A2 has a better quality image.

I have both of mine connected via HDMI to my calibrated display and the A2 just plain looks better to me.
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Old 02-13-07, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by RockStrongo
While I agree that it sucks as a dvd player, I wouldnt call it outstanding as a BD player. Its pretty good, but I think the A2 has a better quality image.

I have both of mine connected via HDMI to my calibrated display and the A2 just plain looks better to me.
I've only had limited viewings of it hooked up in a store, but I thought the PS3 image looked as good as the standalone Sony hooked up to the same TV. Granted this was a 20 minute demo tops.

I've watched 5 movies so far on the A2 and it really has impressed me. I can't do a side by side with the PS3, but will definitely take your word on the image quality. I've had no complaints with the A2 other than losing TrueHD, but I'm probably going to end up with a Denon 987 to solve that soon.
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