besides to annoy honest customers?

Ok ill start by saying I own over 2000 DVDs, 2000+ CDs, and over 100 HD-DVD/BR discs now, all originals, no bootlegs--so I give alot of money to these damn studios. I have one ps3 to play the BRs on and a few xbox 360s with the HD-DVD adapter in each room to play them on. In one of the rooms I use dell 2405s for the computer monitor and one hooked up for video games, cable and DVDs. So I had HD cable installed in the game room and hooked it up via DVI and just get an error message that it's not HDCP-compliant, and has a huge white box covering most of the picture. Nice. It works via component, but i have so much stuff hooked up that my receiver is already full, so it's pretty annoying.

I just upgraded to a new Sony 1080p TV in the living room and got rid of my old 1080i TV that only had 1 DVI input. I sold it to my friend who has the maximum netflix plan who bootlegs EVERYTHING. He has more DVDs than I do--ALL copied from Netflix. So he gets himself an upscaling DVI DVD player so he can watch his bootlegs in 1080i, and I didnt expect it to work, since I thought the point of this nonsense was to create some kind of secure digital connection, hence no component output of 1080i on most players. But yea, it all works fine for him, no problems, meanwhile someone (me) who pays for all this stuff legit cant even use my stuff because of this HDCP crap. So it seems as though HDCP doesnt really stop anything that it's supposed to. If the 360 would upscale Standard DVDs to 1080i via component I could get rid of my Denon DVD player too, but of course I get penalized.

Also on my new TV, the VGA only goes up to 768 or whatever and the components only do 1080i. Only the 2 HDMI connections say 1080p. Does the TV automatically scale a 1080i connection to display 1080p? I ask this because MI3 on my 360 HD-DVD player looks better than any BR disc Ive watched on my PS3 so far , save for maybe Ice Age 2.

Basically, I think Hollywood convinced Intel and Microsoft to do this. And now consumers are just going to have to deal with it, and be annoyed.

I don't know much about it except that I hear it's going to be in everything. Graphics cards, players, and of course Vista.

The only thing I can figure is that the powers-that-be believe there are a whole lot more J6P's who would copy movies from DVDs in real-time to a stand-alone recorder than rip exact images of them on a PC in a fraction of the time. I agree, it is very stupid, but they're probably right lol.

You can output 1080p with your xbox 360 through the vga port.

yea but like i said my TV only does 768 thru VGA for some reason

its the Sony KDS-60A2000

Through component as well. It doesn't do it for games or anything, but the menus are 1080P (according to my TV).

I have the Sony 50A2000 and it only does 1080p through HDMI. Everything else is 720p or 1080i. I'm not sure if it scales 1080i to 1080p though...

AFAIK, these TVs won't scale a 1080i source, even by HDMI. I have a brand new Sony Bravia and my A1 still outputs at 1080i over HDMI. The 360 won't do any 1080p outputting over component.

A 1080p display will certainly de-interlace everything from 1080i -> 1080p. Unless you have a tube 1080i, you won't be viewing native 1080i.

Whether it accepts 1080p over component or not is another matter... It should go without saying that fixed pixel displays will ONLY display progressive.

Unless I am mistaken, the A1 cannot do 1080p, correct?

I don't have a 1080p display, but according to several posts on this site, your statement is incorrect. It won't output SD-DVDs at 1080p over component, but HD-DVDs can be output at 1080p. One example is two posts above yours. And there are plenty of reports of 1080p over component from the 360 playing HD-DVDs in the video games folder.

If that's true, I'd love it if you could tell me how to get my TV to deinterlace a 1080i signal.



Again, I was referring to my TV not deinterlacing a 1080i signal, but passing it as straight 1080i.



I should have been more clear. This was in reference to these specific TVs, not all 1080p displays. Unless these other Sony TVs are varying wildly from mine, they won't accept a 1080p signal from component. I wasn't trying to make a blanket statement on all 1080p TVs.

If you have a fixed-pixel display, it is displaying 1080i sources in 1080p. Fixed-pixel displays cannot display native 1080i or any interlaced material. Sure, it'll say the the input is 1080i, but it will be displaying in 1080p.

The only way to get native 1080i is on a tube set (which, obviously are not fixed-pixel).

Sure, not all 1080p sets accept 1080p over component. No argument there. But saying that "the 360 won't do any 1080p outputting over component" isn't correct. The 360 has nothing to do with it...

Hmm, interesting. I wish there was something in the manual which told me if the display was fixed-pixel or not.

The only way to get native 1080i is on a tube set (which, obviously are not fixed-pixel).



You're right, my wording was poor. I should have said "These TVs will not accept any kind of 1080p input over component, from the 360 or elsewhere."

LCD, DLP, plasma, and LCOS/SXRD are all fixed-pixel display types. They have one and only one native resolution, and input signals of any other type must be converted to that resolution before it ends up on the screen.

The only type of display that isn't fixed-pixel is CRT.

It is truly irritating. For most of us, we are forced to deal with product that is not as good as it should be because the studios worry about piracy. But for those that are going to pirate, they will not ever be able to stop them, and often the pirates end up with a more user friendly product.

I think that unless they improve things greatly, it will be their undoing. It has gotten to the point where the average guy has no idea what works with what, and why this doesn't work with that, etc. and will just throw up his hands and stick with DVD. Hell, the picture difference isn't so bad, especially when you can't figure out why nothing will work.

But if BR and HD-DVD don't do well, the companies behind them will be the majority of the reason why.

It is like they are a 7-11 who is tired of shoplifting. Instead of having decent security and keeping people happy, they have decided to strip search everyone on the way out. Consumers will decide it isn't worth the bullshit, but FOX will be happy they lost billions in revenue because they didn't get pirated....but they still did.

everything you said is exactly how I feel. I've tried to explain that over on avsforum and they just say stuff like if j6p can't figure it out they don't deserve hd content (paraphrased) but that elitist attitude is stupid because if j6p doesn't embrace it it will probably fail. after trying to explain this stuff do friends and family and no one is interested in hd discs right now. most have hdtvs by now but none are really interested in the whole br/hd fiasco

What is the point of HDCP? Content "Protection" of course :P

The fact is, Hollywood would put chips in each of our heads that would decrypt a scrambled video signal. They are aiming to protect and encrypt the delivery chain from the disc to your eyes and each and every point in-between.

Ah, sweet. Thanks!

Ok, I'm a little confused. Seems your (DVDKrayzie) only real problem was in trying to run cable TV on a computer monitor and also running out of inputs, which eventually happens to everyone.

There are computer monitors that are HDCP compliant now, like the 2407. Sounds like you have good cash flow, I bet you could sell yours and upgrade without too much trouble or cost.

I would say that you really need to start analyzing all these purchases better before you shell out the cash. There are many issues in our electronics world, as you have pointed out, not the least of which is 3 different movie discs that are not compatible. I'm not trying to be a dick, but it sounds like you've been buying the wrong stuff, esp that Sony that is not helping much. Compatible hardware does exist. It took me 3 years to find a TV, and I still settled on a couple points. But I'm very happy and everything works. Then I had to do it again when that one crapped out. And I'm still happy.

I would start with an AA 1154a for some extra component switching if I was you, to help out the receiver. Because of problems like yours, it has gone back UP in price, unfortunately. It's at copperbox for $179. It was $139 once, started life at $300 or more. They were going to stop making it, in fact they might have for awhile. But it is back due to demand. Component is much more stable than HDMI, nothing wrong with sticking with it, many installers do their best to NOT install HDMI at this point.

Forgot to mention....Sony TVs are usually quite good at conversion. Running DVD in 480p via component shouldn't be that bad, possibly better than many upconverting players. (or is that the wrong TV/monitor, I lost track)

You're right about the Sony displays doing good upconversion.

My problem isn't really "my" problem. it was more of a "why do thesse companies continue to make it so hard for the legit customer to use his own devices the way he wants"
as far as the "cash flow" yea I could buy 2 brand new 2407 to replace my 2405, but i shouldnt have to. They are practucally the exact same monitor, and Id be throwing aay a few hundred dollars JUST for HDCP, which is BS--especially since as my friend proved, HDCP doesnt stop piracy at all, it just screws us all.

i dont really get how im not researching enough. I bought these monitors before all this HD-DVD/Blu ray stuff, I was just trying to use it all with the stuff I already had. Theres nothing wrong with the sont besides not accepting a 1080 VGA signal. I got a brand new 60 inch Sony 1080p TV for under two grand, so trust me I did a lot of research and could not find anything even close to comparable.

for components I have a switch, but still wish I could use the DVI. In my game room I have 2 xbox 360s, a wii, a regular xbox, HD cable box, but im maxed out on component inputs now. .

I just think it's ridiculous the hoops these companies make everyone go thru to use stufff they paid with their own cash. And with people like you blaming the consumer (bought the wrong stuff, didnt research enough) and your answer o fix it is to just keep throwing more money at it for no reason (replacing 2 2405s with 2 2407s, yea that's real sensible), I guess they'll never stop.

Even more so, it's like they've decided to strip search only those customers who don't look like criminals. Anyone who looks sketchy will be allowed to walk right by.

Hoops? They'll never stop? So, your self-control is so weak that you must buy new machines even if you can't plug them in because they have some power over you? I hope to hell that isn't your debate tactic, here.

And yes, it is sensible. You have an older model that doesn't have a feature that you want because it is older. The newer model has the feature. 2 sensible choices: Don't upgrade your other stuff yet. Or...upgrade the monitors, too. Considering the 2407 sells for less than you no doubt paid for the 2405s, I doubt it would cost much at all. You'd be able to get something for those beauties. Also, wouldn't it only be one that needed upgrading? Maybe I still don't have your setup clear in my head.

I was just trying to give some serious advice. (so far in your thread, only Suprmallet got solid advice, good for him) I figured that I, as someone who has had at least 15 sources simultaneaously wired to the same TV and receiver without trouble (except shelf space), could offer something useful in your unique situation. You don't have to like the answers, but they do exist. I think component is your answer since you have so many HD sources, it works great and solves all your problems, as long as you have enough inputs. So I suggested acquiring more inputs. Just imagine how pissed you'd be if you HAD the 2407s and they STILL didn't work because of some HDMI glitch. Many people have been in that situation with HDMI.

For the record, I am not "blaming" you for anything, just suggesting what to do for a fix. You can't seriously expect a dozen machines to wire themselves together for free and without you thinking it through. (unless you PAY an installer to do it for you, trust me, THAT is not cheap) You have many, many toys. Expect to pay money to use them. I was talking about planning better in the future, not yelling at you for the past. Maybe that didn't come through in text.

Here's another idea: Footballs are $15 at Costco. My plan for the weekend mostly involves one of these "analog" devices and my boys. I'm not even sure the bigscreen will ever be turned on.

nevermind you just dont get it. I dont consider HDCP a "feature" and that's the whole point of this thread. I doubt I can sell the monitor without this "feature" for what a 2407 with this "feature" would cost me. In the end I'd probably have to pay a few hundred for the exact same monitor with a 10 cent piece of equipment in it because a few companies want to screw paying customers because they fear piracy from people who would never spend the money in the first place--that is my issue. It's not even so much a matter of cost, it's principle and I guess you could say my question is not really a question for my specific situation, it's kind of just me venting frustration because of the games they play and not about me going out and buying all new shit. Hell I have no problem being an early-adopted guinea pig. If I bought a dvd player in 1997 and then the 480p players came out a year later, then yea time to upgrade. But to me, buying the exact same equipment over again, this time crippled is NOT upgrading.
I'm not even debating you at all, you're just going all avsforum crazy on me thinking that I shoulda known better to know about stuff that never even existed at the time and now that I know I might as well just go piss away a ton of more money because well we're all filthy rich anyways and if you aren't, well I guess you just don't deserve HD content, time to get that doctorate.