Click on BD review (first BD-50)
#51
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Now I know why the BD Panasonic machine was hooked up at our AVS meeting with Amir. This is his post on Click. They apparently watched parts after I left.
We had a Panasonic player with a copy of Click so after the HD DVD insider meeting finished, a few of us popped in Click. The display being used is the new Pioneer 1080p Plasma which was calibrated for the event. I know you own this display Plazman so this should be very applicable to your situation.
So what was our reaction? This is going to sound super biased so take it however you like. But the picture on Click was very disappointing. The image is riddled with noise. Especially bad was to see all the noise in the flesh tones. But really, there was noise everywhere. On the surface of everything. In bright scenes and darker scenes. Hard to imagine this comes from a digital camera. Even bright scenes suffered from healthy amount of noise that was detracting from the image. I see that the reviews have noted this but I don't think they gave this enough of a mention. The image is not reference material. Note that a few of the other AVS Forum members where there and we all had the same reaction.
Prior to this, we had played a number of HD DVDs including Corpse, Tokyo Drift, etc. and they look wonderful on this plasma. Yes, there is a bit of low level noise on these type of displays but that was well below what we saw on Click.
Now, I can think of two reasons why we saw more of a problem here. Maybe the reviewers are using the Samsung and it does have some kind of noise reduction going on. But perhaps the other reason is the fact that we were driving the Plasma that had 1080p resolution, and we had it in 1:1 pixel mapping. Note that without setting 1:1, the images is softer and does not resolve full 1080p.
Then there was another disturbing problem. On camera pans, such as one outside, showed detail like the lawn turning into mush and as soon as the motion stopped, the resolution popped back up. Since we had a Plasma, I can't blame the display's response time. I suppose it is possible the sensor in the original camera had low response time but it still was not nice to see what is typical of a temporal filter in an MPEG-2 encoder.
In fairness, we did not watch the whole movie. We just watched parts of it but the noise was a constant factor in all the material that we watched.
I can think of large number of HD DVD titles that outperform this one. Even the HD DVD-15 combo titles easily outperform it based on what I saw. Firewall and other titles like it look far, far cleaner despite being half the size. Not only is the picture noisy, but it has busy disturbing look to the noise that really makes your eye focus on it. The only explanation I can think of is too low of an average rate for the MPEG-2 encode but given the numbers mentioned here, that should not make it look this bad.
Kudos are definitely in order for them showing that they can make BD-50 discs. This is certainly a major accomplishment for them and a positive PR point. But until they get their act together in creating stunning quality, they don't deserve any kudos on the actual Video experience.
Let me say again that you should feel free to dismiss my posting as being biased. As such, I encourage those of you with good displays, to give this title a try and post your experience here.
So what was our reaction? This is going to sound super biased so take it however you like. But the picture on Click was very disappointing. The image is riddled with noise. Especially bad was to see all the noise in the flesh tones. But really, there was noise everywhere. On the surface of everything. In bright scenes and darker scenes. Hard to imagine this comes from a digital camera. Even bright scenes suffered from healthy amount of noise that was detracting from the image. I see that the reviews have noted this but I don't think they gave this enough of a mention. The image is not reference material. Note that a few of the other AVS Forum members where there and we all had the same reaction.
Prior to this, we had played a number of HD DVDs including Corpse, Tokyo Drift, etc. and they look wonderful on this plasma. Yes, there is a bit of low level noise on these type of displays but that was well below what we saw on Click.
Now, I can think of two reasons why we saw more of a problem here. Maybe the reviewers are using the Samsung and it does have some kind of noise reduction going on. But perhaps the other reason is the fact that we were driving the Plasma that had 1080p resolution, and we had it in 1:1 pixel mapping. Note that without setting 1:1, the images is softer and does not resolve full 1080p.
Then there was another disturbing problem. On camera pans, such as one outside, showed detail like the lawn turning into mush and as soon as the motion stopped, the resolution popped back up. Since we had a Plasma, I can't blame the display's response time. I suppose it is possible the sensor in the original camera had low response time but it still was not nice to see what is typical of a temporal filter in an MPEG-2 encoder.
In fairness, we did not watch the whole movie. We just watched parts of it but the noise was a constant factor in all the material that we watched.
I can think of large number of HD DVD titles that outperform this one. Even the HD DVD-15 combo titles easily outperform it based on what I saw. Firewall and other titles like it look far, far cleaner despite being half the size. Not only is the picture noisy, but it has busy disturbing look to the noise that really makes your eye focus on it. The only explanation I can think of is too low of an average rate for the MPEG-2 encode but given the numbers mentioned here, that should not make it look this bad.
Kudos are definitely in order for them showing that they can make BD-50 discs. This is certainly a major accomplishment for them and a positive PR point. But until they get their act together in creating stunning quality, they don't deserve any kudos on the actual Video experience.
Let me say again that you should feel free to dismiss my posting as being biased. As such, I encourage those of you with good displays, to give this title a try and post your experience here.
#52
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Amir has a unique way of crushing any title that isn't VC-1 encoded, but to each their own. I was never going to expect Amir to become a fan of Blu-Ray regardless.
#54
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
Amir has a unique way of crushing any title that isn't VC-1 encoded, but to each their own. I was never going to expect Amir to become a fan of Blu-Ray regardless.
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This is a quote from someone who has been an AVS member for over 5 years and has a respectable number of posts:
"Another thing I found interesting: As the gathering wound down (many had already left) they hooked up the new Panasonic Blue Ray player to the same monitor we'd been watching all evening. I must say that my jaw dropped somewhat when they put on the new Adam Sandler movie (Click). There was a great deal of noise in various areas of the picture, and the menus are really second rate; there were actually jaggies in some of the lettering. I received a few strange looks when I asked how a regular CD sounded. I soon learned why when the machine refused to play regular CDs. And don't ask for PIP, as you will get the same result.
After witnessing the substandard picture quality that the BD player had to offer, I now fully appreciate Amirms detailed explanation of why Microsoft's Codec works so efficiently. I would like to expand on this subject, but we did make a promise to keep certain things quiet. All I will add is that I won't be able to hold back a sly chuckle the next time someone quips about BD's 50 gig advantage. And I would also love to know how many of the people who'd turned down VC-1 are now on Prozac."
It's clear that Click BD50 is NOT a success...
We can only hope that the next few BD50 releases prove that this was just an accident...
Here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8648056
"Another thing I found interesting: As the gathering wound down (many had already left) they hooked up the new Panasonic Blue Ray player to the same monitor we'd been watching all evening. I must say that my jaw dropped somewhat when they put on the new Adam Sandler movie (Click). There was a great deal of noise in various areas of the picture, and the menus are really second rate; there were actually jaggies in some of the lettering. I received a few strange looks when I asked how a regular CD sounded. I soon learned why when the machine refused to play regular CDs. And don't ask for PIP, as you will get the same result.
After witnessing the substandard picture quality that the BD player had to offer, I now fully appreciate Amirms detailed explanation of why Microsoft's Codec works so efficiently. I would like to expand on this subject, but we did make a promise to keep certain things quiet. All I will add is that I won't be able to hold back a sly chuckle the next time someone quips about BD's 50 gig advantage. And I would also love to know how many of the people who'd turned down VC-1 are now on Prozac."
It's clear that Click BD50 is NOT a success...
We can only hope that the next few BD50 releases prove that this was just an accident...
Here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8648056
#62
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
His last sentence is confusing. Does he mean that the headaches induced by trying to get BD50 and MPEG-2 working for BD has driven people to Prozac?
Considering BD tried to vote VC-1 out of spec, it leaves little faith in them to make any rational judgements. I honestly wish they had. Then they'd be completely up shit's creek.
#63
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Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
Hifilux...
that poster is referring to the same "viewing" that i posted above with Amir after our HD DVD meeting.
that poster is referring to the same "viewing" that i posted above with Amir after our HD DVD meeting.
Sorry...
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Originally Posted by HiFiLux
Ooops! Yep, I knew it was from the same event, but I thought it was two different people reporting...
Sorry...
Sorry...
Cause that makes sense. Clearly we were all brainwashed by Amir upon entering.
#66
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Originally Posted by DthRdrX
AFAIK voting VC-1 in was a no-brainer as it was a WB request. Remember WB wanted to push their BD9 discs into Blu-Ray spec and they would need VC-1 for the discs.
#67
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Both formats are better than they would've been than if there weren't any competition, so I don't really look at Blu-ray incorporating VC-1 into their specs as capitulating or anything.
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Originally Posted by Adam Tyner
Both formats are better than they would've been than if there weren't any competition, so I don't really look at Blu-ray incorporating VC-1 into their specs as capitulating or anything.
This thread is getting more brutal than a discussion about a dumb Adam Sandler movie should be, especially 'cause Sandler's not the target in this case, and...really, he should be.
This thread is getting more brutal than a discussion about a dumb Adam Sandler movie should be, especially 'cause Sandler's not the target in this case, and...really, he should be.
And actually...I don't like Sandler much. We both had the same acting teacher which is really my only link to him. I did see this and didn't end up hating it. It wasn't bad, quite honestly.
#71
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The ads for Click kept me away. A movie about a man who gets a remote control that can control real life...and it's called Click! It's like they were urging me not to see it, even with Kate Beckinsale in it.
#72
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
The ads for Click kept me away. A movie about a man who gets a remote control that can control real life...and it's called Click! It's like they were urging me not to see it, even with Kate Beckinsale in it.
#73
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
Sandler's first two movies are hilarious, I don't care what anyone says. It's when he tries to go more mainstream and soft that his movies suck.
Going Overboard was his first and, well,
"Here's a big piece of shit"
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Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
Is there really a link to that? I don't believe I ever heard that.
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Originally Posted by HiFiLux
I received a few strange looks when I asked how a regular CD sounded. I soon learned why when the machine refused to play regular CDs. And don't ask for PIP, as you will get the same result. [/I][/B]
It's clear that Click BD50 is NOT a success...
It's clear that Click BD50 is NOT a success...