Why do you think they wouldn't be able to use DVD when advertising a potential combo, when they are certainly able to use the DVD brand when advertising their players? I'm not seeing why you think licenses would be granted for hardware but not for software.

It's too bad Josh is and audiophile and so die-hard about BD. It seems that they had to cut some corners in order to make it fit onto the BD-25 and the audio isn't up to HD DVD par.

http://www.dvdtown.com/article/param...titlesre/4091/

Because BD is NOT DVD. The would be protecting their own HD DVD brand by enforcing the trademark. They would not want consumers associating BD with DVD. The name is marketable.

Anyone who's actually been following this knows that. Even someone like Burnt should know it. BD ain't DVD.

I'm still trying to confirm that the DD+ stream on Paramount titles is higher than 640kbps. Can you help? Not that I would buy these titles anyway, but I'm just interested for my own information.

Digital Trends sez 768kbps.

I've got all the Paramount titles on HD-DVD (except U2).

How do you check the stream?

Well, there you go. Thanks for the link.

Blu-ray predicted to win format war
Forrester Research sticks by earlier forecast
By Jennifer Netherby 10/10/2006


OCT. 10 | Forrester Research is again predicting that Blu-ray Disc will beat out HD DVD in the format war, but only after a long, drawn-out battle.

Forrester first predicted Blu-ray would be the high-definition disc winner in a report last October.

The research firm reaffirmed its position this month, saying that although HD DVD has had some early wins (making it to market first and garnering better reviews), Blu-ray will triumph because it has more studios, more content, more hardware support, higher capacity discs and the PlayStation 3.

Forrester also says video quality is most important to consumers, so the networking, extra interactivity and high-end audio offered standard on HD DVD won’t sway consumers toward that format.

Both HD DVD and Blu-ray have challenges to full consumer adoption, however.


Noting that most consumers with HDTVs don’t yet have high-def programming and are happy with DVD’s picture quality, Forrester researchers wrote, “It may be a tough sell to convince a critical mass of consumers to bother to upgrade their players or their libraries.”

The report says that player usability issues, such as slow start-up times and firmware upgrades, also will slow adoption.

That’s in addition to the format war, which Forrester bluntly dubs the “kiss of death,” writing “neither HD-DVD nor Blu-ray will flourish until consumers think they see a winner.”

Some people are already predicting the winner. I have been on the fence, but with the affordability of the A1 I might pick my own winner.

"Blu-ray will triumph because it has more studios, more content, more hardware support, higher capacity discs and the PlayStation 3."

Did their 'research' assume this remains a constant? And the "more content" is a total assumption -- there is not more BD content now or through the remainder of '06.

A few (probably obvious) points:

1. Higher capacity discs isn't a factor, IMO. Sure, BD50 is here. But HD has shown that 30gigs is more than adequate, and going to a 2nd disc (if needed) is always an option. Both formats have plenty of capacity for an HD movie and extras.

2. "Video quality is most important to consumers"? When research says that 40% (?) or so HDTV owners don't even realize that their standard cable isn't HD, I find that hard to believe. They won't embrace a format that looks like shit, but a format won't live or die solely based on superior picture quality.

I also find it strange that they dismiss the 'better reviews' of HD DVD, yet say that video quality is the most important thing to consumers. Isn't that contradictory?

3. I agree with their comments about slow overall adoption, etc. This is not going to happen quickly. Which is fine with me, as long as the studios keep kicking out quality HD titles while waiting for everyone else to come aboard.

4. Prices don't seem to have entered into the equation here anywhere. I find that strange -- seems to me that the price tag is one of the *first* things that consumers notice.

I still say Blu-ray is the safest bet to win, however, I will agree Forrester does a good job of contradicting itself. They actually make no sense in some parts of the article.

HD DVD has really had a good start, but I have to be realistic. All HD DVD has done to this point is turn an easy win by Blu-ray into a long war.

If the PS3 does jump start huge Blu-ray sales next year and studios don't cross over to HD DVD then Blu-ray will win. HD DVD software needs to continue to sell well after the PS3 launch to get more studios crossing over.

For me the war will be decided by one of two things happening.
One, Universal supporting Blu-ray. This is the death of HD DVD.
Two, Fox supporting HD DVD. This is not the guarantee of the death of Blu-ray, but could be a sign that the end is near.

Sony's worst nightmare is Fox and Disney crossing over. If they are stuck as the only exclusive studio to Blu-ray it becomes a battle between their library and Universal's and Sony will get their asses handed to them in that battle.

I agree, darkside, but I would add that the battle would be between Sony's and Universal's libraries AND player price.

Why does everyone see the PS3 as the deciding factor in this war? Really, how many people will buy a PS3 to watch BluRays on? I can almost guarantee you 90% of people who own a PS2 do not use component cables and 40% still use the Coaxil connections to there TVs. Why would they spend an extra $15 on a BluRay vs. a DVD to get NO extra quality push?

Did we forget MS is launching an external HD-DVD drive the same week? That obviously does not matter though.

Regarding the Lion's Gate switch...on AVS:

And as of today....

And once LG announces they will support HD...what does that mean for BluRay? Nothing according the Josh. But if someone from the HD camp jumps over it means HD will fail. Can't wait to watch Saw and Saw II shortly.

Gizmo, I'm completely with you. I see the PS3 accomplishing VERY little. In fact, it may do more harm than good. Say, for instance, Joe Blow hooks his PS3 to his SD TV and puts in the BD disc and sees no difference. He tells his friends. His friends that had the same experience agree...and tell theirs. It could be a snowballing effect about how BD didn't "make their tv's high definition."

Or people could just not give a shit about playing movies on a video game system.

Or it may not perform as well as some BD fanatics expect it to.

There are so many variables on the BD side at the moment that I wouldn't even begin to prophesize but one thing is for certain, they have very little on their side and that includes luck. With Disney and LG certain to go to HD DVD as well as many manufacturers, I honestly don't see this lasting long. This format war will either be over or almost over within a year/year and a half.

Movie studios are only going to waste their money for so long until they realize it's not cost effective to produce two types of discs.

DFNYC, If you're going to quote something from Robert on AVS, atleast quote the ENTIRE thing he said

"Keep something in mind vis-a-vie Lionsgate. Senior management only made the decision to go forward with HD DVD a few of weeks ago. Manufacturing capacity for HD DVD is still very limited and one look at the most recent updates on planned releases between now and December makes it obvious that anyone this late to the party is likely at the back of a fairly long queue to have material authored and replicated. Lionsgate will make an announcement when they have something to announce. That could be before the end of this month. I doubt it will be any later than November."

When reading that its almost 100% confirmed LionsGate will be supprting HD-DVD. While we won't get any released until late November/Early December, that is still right around the same time the 'all pre-orders are done for in 3 hours from EB/GameStop' PS3 system. Good luck for those who have not pre-ordered and do not want to wait in a line for 42 hours to secure one. Want to get a 360 + HD-DVD addon instead? Shouldn't be tough.

Well I also can't help but think what great timing that would be.

The PS3 is about to be released and then a nice big press release comes out that Lion's Gate is now producing HD DVD disc. And hell, Disney too.

DD+ 1.5 mbps blows DD 640 k to kingdom come and back... BD should have included mandatory decoding but decided to go cheap on royalty and licensing fees.

But the birds, the birds, they be coming home to roost now...

BTW - Lions Gate is definitely going HD DVD. It's coming from every source I know now.

Read into the above in any other way you can - when asked point blank why they wouldn't deny that they are going HD DVD, they declined to answer, saying they'll have more to say later - hint: as in make a BIG announcement later...

Forrester also says video quality is most important to consumers, so the networking, extra interactivity and high-end audio offered standard on HD DVD won’t sway consumers toward that format.

If video quality is most important, I don't see how they would come to a conclusion that BD will be the winner. They are still playing catch up for most titles that are released on both, and I can't think of one that has been reviewed as better for BD. That entire read makes little sense.

So it looks like HD-dvd will be getting releases from Lionsgate, New Line, and HBO next year. I wonder if Universal and Warner will pull back a little with more support coming or keep plugging away. They've been pumping discs out like madmen compared to what we actually expected this year!

I saw this article on IGN today about the format war. http://gear.ign.com/articles/738/738270p1.html

Nice link, I wonder if they know something we don't or if they fudged up(most probable). They have New Line as HD-dvd exclusive.

Disney is also expected to go neutral during CES. Could mean that BluRay only has Sony, Fox, and I *think* MGM as exclusives....so far.