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Originally Posted by joshd2012
That's okay kvrdave, no offense taken. You just have to realize the situation this forum is currently in. If I were to bring up a point like how Sony and Disney titles all used lossless audio, it would fall on deaf ears, because people here are very visual-minded. They don't care about lossless audio (like I do), they just want the best picture. In fact, most would put extras (in SD no less) above audio.
If your budget is only $500 for a player, then pick up a PS3. Obviously, the other big problem is waiting until they are widely available. I won't be buying any units packaged with games, etc. and I won't be paying Ebay prices, so that will probably be at least until Summer '07. |
Originally Posted by darkside
The DS vs PSP thing doesn't apply here. That is a case of consumers picking better games over better graphics pure and simple. Sony got their asses handed to them simply because they never could come up with enough solid games. The PSP was holding on better in the US on at least hardware sales, but the DS Lite has pretty much ended the war in this country as well.
HD DVD vs Blu-ray comes down to two very similar things fighting for the same market. One currently has a lower cost advantage and one currently has better support. Depending on how things shift that war can go either way over the next year. |
Originally Posted by DthRdrX
Ok, a few things:
First, the BDA needs permission to sell prepackaged DVDs from the DVDforum. That is what QGJim was reffering to. The players play them, but they can't advertise and sell dvds without permission. Secondly, the "most of whom(CE companies) prefer BD" statement has very little weight, because they are not a majority of voters on the board. The majority of the DVD Forum voted AOD over Blu-Ray as their format of choice. Josh, my understanding is that MS used to handle all the encoding of VC-1 titles for WB, but that they now have their own dedicated group to carry this out in-house. Clearly MS would go HD DVD as their default option, while WB have no reason to follow the same pattern. |
Originally Posted by Burnt Thru
Josh, my understanding is that MS used to handle all the encoding of VC-1 titles for WB, but that they now have their own dedicated group to carry this out in-house. Clearly MS would go HD DVD as their default option, while WB have no reason to follow the same pattern.
Originally Posted by rdjam Now, am I correct in my recollection that the only way any one can curently encode VC1 for Bluray is to do what Warner is doing - that is, to encode VC1 for HD DVD and then use the MS conversion tool to repackage the HD DVD encode for Bluray? Is this correct?<hr>Amir's reply: Currently yes. |
Article from today's Metro newspaper
Sony's PR Gaffes are Funnier Than Ever Here’s the basic problem with Sony and their handling of the hype surrounding the PlayStation 3: They think they are infallible; they think they are beyond reproach because they’re king of the gaming console castle. Well, here’s something you should know, Sony: Every king eventually falls, and your reign is no different. Your crown is tarnished, and there are two warring factions ready to topple you. The reason I (and others) have been so focused on Sony and their apparent arrogance in the gaming world is because they continue, like clockwork, to make fools of themselves amongst their most loyal crowd — the hardcore gamers. Recently, Sony stock took a dip after reports came from the Tokyo Game Show that some PS3 units were overheating, thus signaling a potentially devastating problem with the console. In reality, it was all a big misunderstanding as TGS had no cool air being piped in and Sony’s kiosks weren’t designed with that in mind. Either way, despite acknowledging that some consoles did overheat and crash — of which there is pictorial and first-hand proof available online — Sony denied such an existence, thereby putting the likes of Baghdad Bob to shame. Oh, but it doesn’t stop there. Sony is banking on Blu-Ray by including it in the PS3 — which drove the price of the console to an almost unheard of buying price — but don’t tell that to a few execs who are now going around saying the future is in digital distribution, not optical discs. Say what Sony? You mean this forced format you are trying to push isn’t the future? Ridiculous comments aside, even PS3 advertising seems to be a huge victim of the Sony PR train wreck. Take their latest ads for the console that are just now starting to pop up in certain cities. They either show some vague reference to a console that the average person will have no clue what it means, or they actually have a melting clock in the ad — which, you know, is counter to the whole overheating bit that seemed to bother Sony shareholders. So what’s the solution? Sony needs to shut up. They need to stop acting like they can do and say whatever they want. What they need to do is let the PS3 speak for itself. It’s actually a wonderful system, capable of the best of the best. The problem is, gamers are focusing on the talk and not the games. |
From AVS.
There was a section on the Today Show this morning about HD-DVD. Apparently, there is a mobile semi truck traveling the nation promoting HD-DVD with a home theatre setup inside. They mentioned how HD-DVD is six times the resolution of SD DVD, how 20 million have HDTVs that aren’t utilizing them, and that HD-DVD was half the cost of Bluray. Nice to see some nationwide coverage. |
format war
I am new in this forum and like to know why peple can not settle for one format.
This war between blue-ray and hd-dvd is slowing things down. This war make me not intresting about this until they settle down on one format. It is all vhs vs. beta war flashback. i think the resolution for either format is enough. I also think this changes is getting to fast for me. The quality of the newest dvd is very good now. So I stick with dvd for now. I am going to wait until the format war is over, the (next format) players are better, price go down. I think the simple to go for the hd-dvd format. far much better than dvds. |
Not too big of a surprise. The Today Show is on NBC which is owned by Universal. I doubt you will see a fair shake given to Blu-Ray on that channel. Though, that was an interesting counter-attack to BD50.
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
The Today Show is on NBC which is owned by Universal. I doubt you will see a fair shake given to Blu-Ray on that channel. Though, that was an interesting counter-attack to BD50.
I do doubt that it's a direct response to BD-50. That's way, way, way too tech-heady for The Today Show's demographic and really is pretty inconsequential to anyone but us tiny select home theater nuts. |
The HD DVD truck is in the NYC metro area and the Today show broadcasts out of here.
The BD conspiracy freaks really need to relax. |
I think if you want to see what Hi Def should look like, check out this screen shot that Warner has released from some of their upcoming titles - this one is from The Ant Bully - from a post on the Hi Def Forum.
http://www.hidef.com/attachments/new...-ant_bully.tif Warner's new site with LOTS more is at www.wbhidef.com |
Originally Posted by Adam Tyner
I dunno, these media companies are so sprawling that one hand rarely knows what the left is doing, and I can't really see Universal coordinating an attack like this. It's possible but unlikely.
I do doubt that it's a direct response to BD-50. That's way, way, way too tech-heady for The Today Show's demographic and really is pretty inconsequential to anyone but us tiny select home theater nuts. Its not a counter to BD-50 at all....Lets see, what else happened today?? Just the biggest release on HD so far. Batman Begins Did anyone see if they mentioned it in the piece?? |
Originally Posted by Burnt Thru
Any player which playsback (and advertisises playback) of DVD needs to have the appropriate patents, which means clearance from the DVD Forum's members. This has clearly already been granted, so there's no reason to think it would be granted for hardware but not software.
Nope. BD was never voted on by the DVD Forum membership, for the simple reason that the BD founders wanted to keep a larger slice of the royalties pie to themselves. Even these days HD DVD motions are only carried because a number of BD companies honorably decide to not vote on these issues. Josh, my understanding is that MS used to handle all the encoding of VC-1 titles for WB, but that they now have their own dedicated group to carry this out in-house. Clearly MS would go HD DVD as their default option, while WB have no reason to follow the same pattern. |
Originally Posted by Burnt Thru
Josh, my understanding is that MS used to handle all the encoding of VC-1 titles for WB, but that they now have their own dedicated group to carry this out in-house. Clearly MS would go HD DVD as their default option, while WB have no reason to follow the same pattern.
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
That's okay kvrdave, no offense taken. You just have to realize the situation this forum is currently in. If I were to bring up a point like how Sony and Disney titles all used lossless audio, it would fall on deaf ears, because people here are very visual-minded. They don't care about lossless audio (like I do), they just want the best picture. In fact, most would put extras (in SD no less) above audio.
So, lesser audio is actually a positive? How do you manage that kind of spin? And how can you say CD audio is wonderful, modern, lossless audio with a straight face? Once they put out the real stuff (IF!?:(), we'll talk about which of these disc formats is better. And Josh, really. It has always been cheaper to get good audio DACs in a player than in a receiver. Or, most DVD players don't actually decode the audio (unless you count extracting the stereo signal from Dolby for basic TV compatibility), making it a moot point on the low end. My DVDp (MSRP $1k) trounces my receiver (MSRP $1500). And I don't mean it's slightly better and I can hear the cymbals and flute a little cleaner. I mean it trounces the receiver. And that's hardly an unusual example. Most $500 CD players (in the last decade, I don't mean when it was bleeding edge) have beat every receiver ever put out. Seriously, where do you get this stuff from? |
Originally Posted by Spiky
We're not all devoid of audio concerns.
So, lesser audio is actually a positive? How do you manage that kind of spin? And how can you say CD audio is wonderful, modern, lossless audio with a straight face? Once they put out the real stuff (IF!?:(), we'll talk about which of these disc formats is better. And Josh, really. It has always been cheaper to get good audio DACs in a player than in a receiver. Or, most DVD players don't actually decode the audio (unless you count extracting the stereo signal from Dolby for basic TV compatibility), making it a moot point on the low end. My DVDp (MSRP $1k) trounces my receiver (MSRP $1500). And I don't mean it's slightly better and I can hear the cymbals and flute a little cleaner. I mean it trounces the receiver. And that's hardly an unusual example. Most $500 CD players (in the last decade, I don't mean when it was bleeding edge) have beat every receiver ever put out. Seriously, where do you get this stuff from? |
Originally Posted by joshd2012
No, I didn't say that at all. All I said is that most of you would rather have extras on the disc...Absolutely, but then there would be complaints to no end about how is a substandard disc even though the audio was superior. You can't please people who don't want to be pleased.
First off, I would LOVE lossless sound, but thats up to the studios to decide whether or not to include it. On both formats, some releases have it and some do not. Most of us want it all. We want the kitchen sink and believe that both formats can handle it. If it means multiple discs, then so be it. That said, there is NO reason to leave the extras off. Just because I say this, does not mean that I would substitue extras for lossless audio. So, please do not generalize like that. |
Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
From AVS.
Anyone see this? Nice to see some nationwide coverage. Here is the only pic that has surfaced: HD-dvd semi truck |
Originally Posted by joshd2012
No, I didn't say that at all. All I said is that most of you would rather have extras on the disc. We do get a nice 640kbps DD stream (not sure what the DD+ stream is on HD DVD)
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Originally Posted by Adam Tyner
Believe it's 640kbps for Warner and 1.5Mbps for Universal. Dunno about Paramount.
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
I am not talking about the players, but rather the discs. If Sony released a BD/DVD combo, they likely could not advertize in any way that the title is compatible using any form of "DVD" in the wording.
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It's too bad Josh is and audiophile and so die-hard about BD. It seems that they had to cut some corners in order to make it fit onto the BD-25 and the audio isn't up to HD DVD par.
http://www.dvdtown.com/article/param...titlesre/4091/ |
Originally Posted by Burnt Thru
Why do you think they wouldn't be able to use DVD when advertising a potential combo, when they are certainly able to use the DVD brand when advertising their players? I'm not seeing why you think licenses would be granted for hardware but not for software.
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
Because BD is NOT DVD. The would be protecting their own HD DVD brand by enforcing the trademark. They would not want consumers associating BD with DVD. The name is marketable.
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Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
It's too bad Josh is and audiophile and so die-hard about BD. It seems that they had to cut some corners in order to make it fit onto the BD-25 and the audio isn't up to HD DVD par.
http://www.dvdtown.com/article/param...titlesre/4091/ |
Originally Posted by joshd2012
I'm still trying to confirm that the DD+ stream on Paramount titles is higher than 640kbps. Can you help?
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
I'm still trying to confirm that the DD+ stream on Paramount titles is higher than 640kbps. Can you help? Not that I would buy these titles anyway, but I'm just interested for my own information.
How do you check the stream? |
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Blu-ray predicted to win format war
Forrester Research sticks by earlier forecast By Jennifer Netherby 10/10/2006 OCT. 10 | Forrester Research is again predicting that Blu-ray Disc will beat out HD DVD in the format war, but only after a long, drawn-out battle. Forrester first predicted Blu-ray would be the high-definition disc winner in a report last October. The research firm reaffirmed its position this month, saying that although HD DVD has had some early wins (making it to market first and garnering better reviews), Blu-ray will triumph because it has more studios, more content, more hardware support, higher capacity discs and the PlayStation 3. Forrester also says video quality is most important to consumers, so the networking, extra interactivity and high-end audio offered standard on HD DVD won’t sway consumers toward that format. Both HD DVD and Blu-ray have challenges to full consumer adoption, however. Noting that most consumers with HDTVs don’t yet have high-def programming and are happy with DVD’s picture quality, Forrester researchers wrote, “It may be a tough sell to convince a critical mass of consumers to bother to upgrade their players or their libraries.” The report says that player usability issues, such as slow start-up times and firmware upgrades, also will slow adoption. That’s in addition to the format war, which Forrester bluntly dubs the “kiss of death,” writing “neither HD-DVD nor Blu-ray will flourish until consumers think they see a winner.” Some people are already predicting the winner. I have been on the fence, but with the affordability of the A1 I might pick my own winner. |
"Blu-ray will triumph because it has more studios, more content, more hardware support, higher capacity discs and the PlayStation 3."
Did their 'research' assume this remains a constant? And the "more content" is a total assumption -- there is not more BD content now or through the remainder of '06. A few (probably obvious) points: 1. Higher capacity discs isn't a factor, IMO. Sure, BD50 is here. But HD has shown that 30gigs is more than adequate, and going to a 2nd disc (if needed) is always an option. Both formats have plenty of capacity for an HD movie and extras. 2. "Video quality is most important to consumers"? When research says that 40% (?) or so HDTV owners don't even realize that their standard cable isn't HD, I find that hard to believe. They won't embrace a format that looks like shit, but a format won't live or die solely based on superior picture quality. I also find it strange that they dismiss the 'better reviews' of HD DVD, yet say that video quality is the most important thing to consumers. Isn't that contradictory? 3. I agree with their comments about slow overall adoption, etc. This is not going to happen quickly. Which is fine with me, as long as the studios keep kicking out quality HD titles while waiting for everyone else to come aboard. 4. Prices don't seem to have entered into the equation here anywhere. I find that strange -- seems to me that the price tag is one of the *first* things that consumers notice. |
I still say Blu-ray is the safest bet to win, however, I will agree Forrester does a good job of contradicting itself. They actually make no sense in some parts of the article.
HD DVD has really had a good start, but I have to be realistic. All HD DVD has done to this point is turn an easy win by Blu-ray into a long war. If the PS3 does jump start huge Blu-ray sales next year and studios don't cross over to HD DVD then Blu-ray will win. HD DVD software needs to continue to sell well after the PS3 launch to get more studios crossing over. For me the war will be decided by one of two things happening. One, Universal supporting Blu-ray. This is the death of HD DVD. Two, Fox supporting HD DVD. This is not the guarantee of the death of Blu-ray, but could be a sign that the end is near. Sony's worst nightmare is Fox and Disney crossing over. If they are stuck as the only exclusive studio to Blu-ray it becomes a battle between their library and Universal's and Sony will get their asses handed to them in that battle. |
I agree, darkside, but I would add that the battle would be between Sony's and Universal's libraries AND player price.
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Why does everyone see the PS3 as the deciding factor in this war? Really, how many people will buy a PS3 to watch BluRays on? I can almost guarantee you 90% of people who own a PS2 do not use component cables and 40% still use the Coaxil connections to there TVs. Why would they spend an extra $15 on a BluRay vs. a DVD to get NO extra quality push?
Did we forget MS is launching an external HD-DVD drive the same week? That obviously does not matter though. |
Regarding the Lion's Gate switch...on AVS:
We will likely be watching Lionsgate HD DVDs by CES. No announcement, when asked they also didn't deny plans for HD-DVD, they said they'd have something to say later. Lionsgate will make an announcement when they have something to announce. That could be before the end of this month. I doubt it will be any later than November. |
And once LG announces they will support HD...what does that mean for BluRay? Nothing according the Josh. But if someone from the HD camp jumps over it means HD will fail. Can't wait to watch Saw and Saw II shortly.
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Gizmo, I'm completely with you. I see the PS3 accomplishing VERY little. In fact, it may do more harm than good. Say, for instance, Joe Blow hooks his PS3 to his SD TV and puts in the BD disc and sees no difference. He tells his friends. His friends that had the same experience agree...and tell theirs. It could be a snowballing effect about how BD didn't "make their tv's high definition."
Or people could just not give a shit about playing movies on a video game system. Or it may not perform as well as some BD fanatics expect it to. There are so many variables on the BD side at the moment that I wouldn't even begin to prophesize but one thing is for certain, they have very little on their side and that includes luck. With Disney and LG certain to go to HD DVD as well as many manufacturers, I honestly don't see this lasting long. This format war will either be over or almost over within a year/year and a half. Movie studios are only going to waste their money for so long until they realize it's not cost effective to produce two types of discs. |
DFNYC, If you're going to quote something from Robert on AVS, atleast quote the ENTIRE thing he said
"Keep something in mind vis-a-vie Lionsgate. Senior management only made the decision to go forward with HD DVD a few of weeks ago. Manufacturing capacity for HD DVD is still very limited and one look at the most recent updates on planned releases between now and December makes it obvious that anyone this late to the party is likely at the back of a fairly long queue to have material authored and replicated. Lionsgate will make an announcement when they have something to announce. That could be before the end of this month. I doubt it will be any later than November." When reading that its almost 100% confirmed LionsGate will be supprting HD-DVD. While we won't get any released until late November/Early December, that is still right around the same time the 'all pre-orders are done for in 3 hours from EB/GameStop' PS3 system. Good luck for those who have not pre-ordered and do not want to wait in a line for 42 hours to secure one. Want to get a 360 + HD-DVD addon instead? Shouldn't be tough. |
Well I also can't help but think what great timing that would be.
The PS3 is about to be released and then a nice big press release comes out that Lion's Gate is now producing HD DVD disc. And hell, Disney too. ;) |
Originally Posted by joshd2012
No, I didn't say that at all. All I said is that most of you would rather have extras on the disc. We do get a nice 640kbps DD stream (not sure what the DD+ stream is on HD DVD) so its not all that bad. Would I prefer lossless and get rid of the extras? Absolutely, but then there would be complaints to no end about how is a substandard disc even though the audio was superior. You can't please people who don't want to be pleased.
A good receiver will outperform a good DVD player audio-wise in most situations. I am sorry for you that you don't find yourself in that situation. But the birds, the birds, they be coming home to roost now... |
BTW - Lions Gate is definitely going HD DVD. It's coming from every source I know now.
Read into the above in any other way you can - when asked point blank why they wouldn't deny that they are going HD DVD, they declined to answer, saying they'll have more to say later - hint: as in make a BIG announcement later... |
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