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And the rumors continue:
Apparently a Fox exec wanted a private demo of HD DVD at the Javits Center this weekend... And now this: News Corp supposedly has a different view than FOX on the whole High Def thing. So copyprotection could be kicked aside because News Corp decides they want Fox playing in both sand boxes. And I'll take Spielbergs movies over Sony any day. |
If Fox would release on a format destined to be stillborn like D-VHS, I don't know why they wouldn't support both HD DVD and Blu-ray.
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Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
This format war could truly come down to Universal and Sony...
And I'll take Spielbergs movies over Sony any day. |
There are definitely a few Sony titles that I'd be sad to not have in HD: spiderman, close encounters, lawrence of arabia, the dark crystal... but, yeah, I wouldn't miss them enough to buy into a whole format.
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Wasn't it a Fox exec a few weeks ago that said they wouldn't be supporting HD DVd for at least 3 years? Damn, these rumors are just getting out of control.
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<s>I wonder what would happen to all the BD fanboys if Sony was all that was left.</s>
MOD NOTE: You always have to take things one step further? Just let it go. -namja |
Originally Posted by joshd2012
Here is what I don't understand about the rumored neutrality talk: Why would any studio make a move at this point?
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Originally Posted by RockStrongo
Umm, maybe because HD-DVD sales are actually better than BD at this point which supposedly wasnt expected.
Studios have 2 goals: 1) move to an HD format and 2) make money. Moving to an HD format gives:
A format war not only hurts HD sales but hurts SD DVD sales as well which goes against both goals. The last thing the studios want is a format war. They went BD because it was the path of least resistance. Not only was BD supposedly superior to HD DVD, the PS3 would act as the fait accompli causing mass and automatic adoption of BD. Both goals accomplished in the fastest possible way. But reality is BD is floundering along and HD DVD has taken a large lead. To continue to support BD exclusively would not only alienate most of the HD disc market, but obviously prolongs the format war. The fastest way to accomplish both goals at this point is to at least go neutral. They may not be able to abandon BD completely (yet) because of contracts or obligations, but by supporting both formats they essentially kill Blu-ray. |
Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
<s>I wonder what would happen to all the BD fanboys if Sony was all that was left.</s>
<s>MOD NOTE: You always have to take things one step further? Just let it go. -namja</s> I think you need to back off. |
http://www.twice.com/article/CA6381702.html
The ongoing battle between HD DVD and Blu-ray got a full airing Monday morning in a frank exchange of opinions during a panel discussion with members of the groups supporting the respective formats who answered questions from each other, industry watchers and the audience at the CEA Industry Forum. The Forum, being held here, was moderated by Brian Cooley, editor at large with CNET, the panel featured Mark Knox, advisor of Toshiba’s HD DVD Promotion Division, Andy Parsons, Pioneer’s senior VP of product development and chairman of the Blu-ray Association’s U.S. Promotion Committee, Chris Crotty, senior analyst of CE for iSuppli, Patrick Beaulieu, NVIDIA’s Pure Video technology manager and the audience chiming in at various times. Crotty’s first comment of the panel was a double-edged sword towards both formats and their backers. “Both sides should be commended for coming up with these formats, but this is most pointless format war ever,” he said. Parsons volunteered that CE companies have seemingly made a determination that the “game buyer is different than the home theater customer,” and that the early adopter would turn to more of a stand-alone deck then a game system peripheral as the main HD disc player of the home. Crotty commented about the whole issue of combo decks that “by the 2007 holiday season some manufacturer will be offering that product,” no matter what the software concerns are by retailers. Bernie Appel, veteran RadioShack merchant, CE Hall of Famer and president of Appel Associates, tried to place the entire conversation into perspective. “You can go back to the 1960s with records. Many people don’t remember records, but companies developed turntables for albums and singles. It's about standards. The consumer wanted that. The same held true with 8-track and audio cassettes, later on VHS and Beta and then DVD. The consumer always decides. What that means [talking directly to Knox and Parsons] is that eventually, one of you will be out of a job." |
Originally Posted by awmurray
The last thing the studios want is a format war. They went BD because it was the path of least resistance. Not only was BD supposedly superior to HD DVD, the PS3 would act as the fait accompli causing mass and automatic adoption of BD. Both goals accomplished in the fastest possible way.
But reality is BD is floundering along and HD DVD has taken a large lead. To continue to support BD exclusively would not only alienate most of the HD disc market, but obviously prolongs the format war. The fastest way to accomplish both goals at this point is to at least go neutral. They may not be able to abandon BD completely (yet) because of contracts or obligations, but by supporting both formats they essentially kill Blu-ray. |
Originally Posted by joshd2012
You need to look at this at a higher level. BD & HD DVD sales are 0.1% of the optical format movie sales. They aren't missing anything right now. And in order for Blu-Ray to fail, you are talking about not only Sony going out of business, but also the top electronic manufacturers losing their butts across the board. Its just not going to happen. There is just too much support.
Currently, they are alienating hd-dvd owners. I dont see why you cant understand that. Forget being bluray exclusive, just think of it from the hd-dvd side of things. |
Originally Posted by RockStrongo
I dont get why you are making this so difficult....your making it a hd-dvd versus bd argument....why cant these companies just want to provide their products to hd-dvd owners?? Economically, if it makes them money (even small profits) why not do it?
Currently, they are alienating hd-dvd owners. I dont see why you cant understand that. Forget being bluray exclusive, just think of it from the hd-dvd side of things. Why can't Toshiba and Universal just want to provide their products to Blu-Ray owners? Economically, if it makes them money (even small profits) why not do it? |
Originally Posted by joshd2012
You need to look at this at a higher level. BD & HD DVD sales are 0.1% of the optical format movie sales. They aren't missing anything right now.
Remember this was in response to your question of 'what do the studios gain by going neutral?' It doesn't really matter what the current overall market share is... they're building a new market which will replace the DVD market. They want to get to that point ASAP.
Originally Posted by joshd2012
And in order for Blu-Ray to fail, you are talking about not only Sony going out of business, but also the top electronic manufacturers losing their butts across the board. Its just not going to happen. There is just too much support.
Businesses lose lots of money on bad decisions all the time. Are you saying that Pioneer's or Panasonic's investment in Blu-ray to this point would sink them if they abandoned it now? I don't think so. Plus they could recoup that cost in short order by producing HD DVD players. Are you saying that Blu-ray can't fail? Can I quote you on that? |
Originally Posted by joshd2012
In order to be fair, you need to look at the reverse of the situation. Ask the question again, but look at it from the many companies and studios who support Blu-Ray:
Why can't Toshiba and Universal just want to provide their products to Blu-Ray owners? Economically, if it makes them money (even small profits) why not do it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Sony say a long time ago that it would be using MPEG2 on BD until they developed other encoders? I don't see this rumor as being anything crazy, we were talking about this very subject when news first came out that they would be exclusively MPEG2 for awhile. What, 6-8 months ago? |
Originally Posted by awmurray
Are you saying that Blu-ray can't fail? Can I quote you on that?
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
Why can't Toshiba and Universal just want to provide their products to Blu-Ray owners? Economically, if it makes them money (even small profits) why not do it?
2) Their product is cheaper and delivers better quality 3) They own most of the market and therefore are leaving far less money on the table than the BD only companies-- a sure recipe for disaster in a war of attrition. 4) Their competition is looking silly and trying to emulate their success (sony abandoning MPEG-2 for VC-1 is the latest example) 5) If BD dies, they get the whole market and momentum is going their way. |
Originally Posted by Spiky
Actually, he has a point. They still make Minidiscs, you know. Sony will use BD as long as they want to, certainly as long as the PS3 is around.
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Originally Posted by awmurray
I think I'm looking at the right level. The goal is to move to an HD disc format. A format war is bad for this goal. The studios will follow the path of least resistance to acheive said goal. By not supporting HD DVD certain studios are ignoring most of this market. Studios will follow the money. If you follow the money you end up at HD DVD.
Remember this was in response to your question of 'what do the studios gain by going neutral?' It doesn't really matter what the current overall market share is... they're building a new market which will replace the DVD market. They want to get to that point ASAP. If/when Blu-ray fails, Sony certainly won't go out of business. Some folks will lose their jobs, I'm sure (like Ben Feingold did), but the company won't be going out of business. Certainly not with people buying Blu-ray discs when they don't even have a player. Businesses lose lots of money on bad decisions all the time. Are you saying that Pioneer's or Panasonic's investment in Blu-ray to this point would sink them if they abandoned it now? I don't think so. Plus they could recoup that cost in short order by producing HD DVD players. Are you saying that Blu-ray can't fail? Can I quote you on that? For Blu-Ray to fail, PlayStation 3 has to fail. Dreamcast type of failure. Sony wll have to stop making them. That won't happen. If it did, Sony would be ruined and would have to close shop - there is no doubt in my mind about that. If the other CE companies abandoned their investment this prematurely, I would surely encourage their stockholders to bail. You don't spend millions of dollars and years developing something only to throw it away after 4 months. |
Originally Posted by awmurray
1) Their solution is better (its implementation if you want to get technical)
2) Their product is cheaper and delivers better quality 3) They own most of the market and therefore are leaving far less money on the table than the BD only companies-- a sure recipe for disaster in a war of attrition. 4) Their competition is looking silly and trying to emulate their success (sony abandoning MPEG-2 for VC-1 is the latest example) 5) If BD dies, they get the whole market and momentum is going their way. 2) Better quality? Compared to what? 3) If the market is too small, percentages are misleading. 4) VC-1 has been part of the spec for a long while. The trasnsisition was inevitable. 5) If HD DVD dies, they get the whole market and momentum is going their way. |
Originally Posted by awmurray
True, Blu-ray will be around for a long time because the PS3 requires them. Obviously Blu-ray could fail as a movie format and Sony wouldn't be in any danger of going under, though.
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
Why can't Toshiba and Universal just want to provide their products to Blu-Ray owners? Economically, if it makes them money (even small profits) why not do it?
Anyways, I just want high quality hd content on disc....im really sick of the hd-dvd vs bd argument. I would love to see all studio releasing on both and let consumers decide which format. Given that, both formats are gonna be around a while so some of the studios are probably beginning to realize that and thats probably behind the change in philosophy. |
Originally Posted by RockStrongo
I wouldnt care if they did....Wasnt it Toshiba who was trying to get Sony to seek a compromise before the launches? I remember reading that somewhere, but dont know if it was true.
MOD NOTE: Okay, we discussed this already. -namja |
Here's some info from the Apple camp linked below. While it's from a rumor site, it makes valid points and if you don't want to read the link, says that Apple might be supporting both camps, not just BD.
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0610brieflyhddvd.html |
Originally Posted by joshd2012
Getting to the point where people adopt HD is when there is one format - at this point, the "path of least resistance" is for Universal to support Blu-Ray and end the war, rather than have Disney, Sony, Fox, and LG all support HD DVD.
There is a reason we are hearing strong rumors of LG and Disney moving to support HD DVD, but no rumors of Universal switching to Blu-ray.
Originally Posted by joshd2012
Yes. Blu-ray can't fail. Quote me.
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