Julie Walker

So far none of the catalog releases offer the original mono or stereo mixes. Do you think studios should include them on the releases at the highest quality possible. Or is original audio mixes less important too you than remixed 5.1 tracks and DTS?

digitalfreaknyc

none? I wouldn't say that. let's be more specific if you want answers.

Supermallet

Caddyshack and The Searchers both contain the original audio. I wish Blazing Saddles had, as well.

Julie Walker

I wasn't aware Caddyshack and The Searchers were released, so that's good news on the audio front!

But going by the catalog titles i'm aware of like Enter The Dragon, Full Metal Jacket, Animal House and the worst offender of them all, The Terminator. It appeared like the studios were doing away with the original mixes in favor of remix only.

I'm ok with a remix option,but think the original mix should always be included. So if space is an issue,they can just leave off the French/whatever language dub track(& just use subtitles) and include the original mix.

Supermallet

I agree, the original should always be there. And with these latest releases, it looks like Warner at least is going that route.

Doughboy

Caddyshack does NOT include the original mono track. I'm a purist so I always want the original audio included. I can live with most of WB's remixes since in most cases they stay true to the original soundtrack.

But in the case of The Terminator, the 5.1 remix is a travesty and the absence of the mono track is inexcusable. I don't own a Blu-rry player(and the way things are going, I probably never will), but if I did, I'd never get that movie until they included the original audio.

Supermallet

Caddyshack doesn't have the original mono? So what was that mono mix I was listening to on the Caddyshack HD DVD last night??

darkside

I'm not happy about it and I've emailed Universal and WB for all the good it will do. The weird thing is Animal House is a combo disc and has the mono track on the DVD side, but they left it off the HD side. I'm pretty sure Warner dropped the mono even on the last DVD release of Blazing Saddles, but I still have the original DVD release that has it.

The Searchers thankfully has the mono track. I was really hoping that studios would use this new format to put mono tracks on in TruHD but it looks like they will give in to the masses as usual that want all their speakers working on every film.

The problems is people in general have no interest or respect for how something sounds. They have a 5.1 surround system and think all their movies are inferior unless they are remixed for it. These are probably the same people that think their poorly encoded MP3s sound great.

We pretty much won the battle over OAR because you could show people clearly what they are missing, but its not so easy with sound. That is why SACD and DVD-A never caught on. Some people simply can't hear the difference even between an original mono track and a truly awful 5.1 remix.

Adam Tyner

It does, although the disc defaults to the 5.1 mix, and the packaging makes no mention of the original mono being present. When I first posted the review on this site, I was lazy and didn't even think to look until Suprmallet mentioned that it was there.

Drexl

It's a shame, although I don't care much if it was originally Dolby Surround and they only have a 5.1 track. Often it doesn't sound much different anyway if that's the case.

For mono films though, it should definitely be there. It doesn't have to be lossless, but it should be included.

Doughboy

If it is on there, then every single review I've read online has failed to mention it. Which means these reviewers either need to do a better job checking all the disc specs, or WB sent out a screener copy missing the mono track.

Adam Tyner

Yes. Myself included.

darkside

I totally agree with this. For movies with multitrack audio, even old films like 2001, doing a quality 5.1 remix is fairly easy. In those cases I really don't mind if there was an old dolby surround mix that was left off.

The mono films are the big problem and studios really need to make sure its on there. Glad Caddyshack has it.

Doughboy

The DVDTalk review is the first one I've seen to mention the mono track being included. HD DVD Digest and The Man Room's still claim the mono track was ditched.

Julie Walker

I'm actually for original dolby mixes as well. But in some cases if they're not included and the 5.1 sounds decent,I can live with it(last Scarface release for example).

But in the case of New Line 5.1 from Dolby mixes like on Jason Goes To Hell and Pump Up The Volume among others. The 5.1 sounds horrible and I go with the original dolby mix instead.

Though I have found it nearly impossible to reason with some home theater fans why original audio mixes are important. And it's sad to see studios caving into them largely instead of simply solving the issue by making the original mix available also.

The main ignorance that comes from the remix everything supporters is this actual comment I received on another forum. " I wouldn't say older films were intended to have a certain atmosphere with the audio mix, older films were limited to mono or stereo mixes to begin with"

If that's the case,then it must be a fluke that Jaws and The Godfather had such beautiful effective atmospheric mono audio mixes that won the Academy Award for best audio.

Josh Z

Keep in mind that when a Dolby Surround mix is encoded at DD 5.1, it doesn't necessarily have to be remixed. 5.1 encoding doesn't require that every channel be used. I've heard a number of 5.1 "remixes" that still utilize mono surround activity and no LFE.

Supermallet

Hey, look at that! I made a difference. Someone should let me do this full time. *Elbows Geoff in the ribs*

But Adam is correct, the disc defaults to the 5.1 and the mono track isn't listed (although the foreign language tracks are all listed as mono).

kvrdave

Okay, I am not a big mono buff. What is the appeal of listening to a mono track to a movie? Is it just nastalgia?

Drexl

It's because it's the way the movie was originally done. Often, when they try to make a 5.1 mix on a mono film, it sounds artificial. If they don't have access to the original sound elements, they can't do a proper mix, so they have to re-record sounds. People familiar with the film can pick these out and don't like it.

If people want remixes, that's fine, but it's a trivial matter to include the original mono track since it doesn't take up much space on the disc.

I like color better than black and white, but I when I watch a movie made in B&W I don't want it colorized.

Cartload

I do not like the fact that the mono mixes haven't been present on HD DVDs. It's especially annoying for a movie like Animal House (combo HD DVD/DVD)where the mono mix is on the SD side, but not on the HD side.

Julie Walker

I've also noticed the dialogue usually sounds worse in mono to 5.1 remixes. Either you have the shrill echo-tin can effect of The Godfather remix(which is ear bleeding terrible when charecters raise their voice/yell),or the dialogue comes out at a much lower volume level than originally recorded. So you have to strain your hears to hear what they're saying(& turning volume up doesn't solve the problem,it still sounds unnatural). Meanwhile when you switch over to the mono mix,the dialogue sounds normal and it at its natural volume level as originally mixed.

I also caught a midnight screening of Friday the 13th a few years ago. This would be the first mono film I saw in theaters and I was blown away. It sounded excellent,was full of atmosphere and made myself and the audiences jump at all the right moments,despite knowing what was about to happen! It certainly brought the scare factor back too the film and it's always been a favorite of mine. And yet I see some fans whining that they're not remixed to 5.1 on the dvd releases.

Meanwhile last October,I caught a rare midnight screening of Cannibal Holocaust. I figured "Might as well check it out,since it's hardly shown in theaters and I may never get this chance every again",but I regretted going to the showing. Since Grindhouse used their horrible stereo remix for the showing. So despite the volume in the theater being up pretty loud. The dialogue was impossible to hear and at such a tiny volume level. The music sounded terrible as well and was never leveled. Sometimes it would be blaringly loud,othertimes too faint. While the dialogue always remained at the same extremely faint level from begining too end. It was not atmospheric at all and made the experiance a boring viewing experiance.

Their dvd release offers both stereo and original mono mix,and the difference is night and day in quality. The mono sounds natural,normal and consistent in volume level,while the stereo mix has faint dialogue,faint sound effects and bad music levels(the opening score even starts later in the stereo mix missing the intro).

So if you think mono is only for 'nostalgia' and 'not important'. Well you could not be more wrong. It's the way the films were made and released with and how they're meant to sound.

And as Drexl said,just because he may prefer color,does not mean he wants black & white films to be colorized. It's the same thing with audio and aspect ratios for films.

Supermallet

kvr, let me use Caddyshack as an example. It was originally recorded in mono. The HD DVD defaults to the 5.1 track. At first, it starts up, it's fairly low-key, not too bad. Dialogue sounds fine. Then, "I'm Alright" kicks in, and they spread it across all the channels...and it's quiet as hell. And I'm sitting there thinking, "What the fuck?" So I turn it up. The song is still more quiet than the sound effects of the kid riding his bike to the golf course. So I switch to the mono. BAM! Suddenly the song is the right volume, over the sound effects.

Julie Walker

That is a good example Super,and something I have noticed on many mono to 5.1 remixes. And if it isn't obvious already,that's why original audio mixes are very important