HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray vs. everything else free-for-all: Round two
#126
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Originally Posted by Blitz6Speed
Blu-Ray is an entirely new disc format from the ground up, HD-DVD is an extension of normal DVD.
#128
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
I want to correct a statement I made earlier. I knew there was a major sports franchise skipping PS3 this year, but it was not Madden but WWE. Sorry for the confusion.
#129
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
I want to correct a statement I made earlier. I knew there was a major sports franchise skipping PS3 this year, but it was not Madden but WWE. Sorry for the confusion.
#131
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Originally Posted by RockStrongo
You just plain cant get around the pricetag. Period.
#132
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Originally Posted by Coral
Don't forget NHL 07... won't be released for the PS3 at all, but will be on the 360 and by all accounts is a true next-gen sports title.
#133
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Now, here is an article that seems to claim that blu-ray is actually outselling hd dvd!
http://www.homemediaretailing.com/ne...rticle_ID=9539
It boggles the mind! It just seems to contradict every piece of anecdotal evidence that we have.
Any comments?
Stan
http://www.homemediaretailing.com/ne...rticle_ID=9539
It boggles the mind! It just seems to contradict every piece of anecdotal evidence that we have.
Any comments?
Stan
#134
Banned by request
What it sounds like is BD sales went up at launch, then down after people realized what Sony was pulling on them. But since the BD player cost more, it's generating more money overall, even with fewer sales. Or am I reading it wrong?
#135
"Retailers expressed frustration over slower than expected Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD product sales during the fourth annual HDTV conference here Aug. 15-16.
Among the retailers were execs for Ultimate Electronics, Bjorn’s and Ken Crane’s.
Many retailers noted that they were suffering through more problems with Blu-ray than HD DVD during the formats’ first few months on the market."
http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6362963.html (full article)
Among the retailers were execs for Ultimate Electronics, Bjorn’s and Ken Crane’s.
Many retailers noted that they were suffering through more problems with Blu-ray than HD DVD during the formats’ first few months on the market."
http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6362963.html (full article)
#136
DVD Talk Godfather
Originally Posted by stanrozenfeld
Now, here is an article that seems to claim that blu-ray is actually outselling hd dvd!
http://www.homemediaretailing.com/ne...rticle_ID=9539
It boggles the mind! It just seems to contradict every piece of anecdotal evidence that we have.
Any comments?
Stan
http://www.homemediaretailing.com/ne...rticle_ID=9539
It boggles the mind! It just seems to contradict every piece of anecdotal evidence that we have.
Any comments?
Stan
Both Blu-ray and HD DVD hardware and software were available for the six weeks ended July 29... Based on that time frame, Blu-ray led the next-generation market with a 54% share of hardware units sold... All told, there were 33% more HD DVD players sold during the six-week time frame of two-format availability.
<hr>
And now, my aside, which was nicely summarized in the VBO story:
However, Crane mentioned that a Samsung-provided demo disc showed off Blu-ray superiority beautifully on an early Samsung player, suggesting possible mastering issues with certain film titles.
Hint: That means no bodded transfers (or VHS tape Robocop releases), actual TrueHD on every title (not just DD or DD+ or PCM), HD/BR-only extras (or at least as many old extras as possible at 1080p), and movies people actually care about (not Rumor Has It or Basic Instinct 2 or Assault on Precinct 13).
For that six-week snapshot, high-definition disc players made up a scant 0.4% of overall hardware units sold.
(To be fair, one of the guys has a smudged "ask me about D-Theatre" lapel pin. The subject is never brought up).
Put that into perspective.
My point is, the tech doesn't matter. HD-DVD is near perfect, Blu-Ray has the potential (and will more than likely) also be near perfect. The studios need to put that behind them and focus on the software. That's what matters.
#138
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Originally Posted by stanrozenfeld
One can also argue that hd dvd player hasn't sold as well, because it was never available!
#141
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As much as I would like to respect the opinions of others, it's impossible if their argument is completely irrational.
This website thinks blu ray will win. But wait until you read why Blu Ray will win!
http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/08/16/why-blu-ray-will-win/
I havn't laughed that hard in a while. I'm hoping that whoever wrote that got a nice paycheck from Sony.
This website thinks blu ray will win. But wait until you read why Blu Ray will win!
http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/08/16/why-blu-ray-will-win/
I havn't laughed that hard in a while. I'm hoping that whoever wrote that got a nice paycheck from Sony.
#142
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Looks like Sony has dropped Black Hawk Down and Sense & Sensibility from their release schedule "indefinitley". Full article here.
This is significant because BHD was supposed to be the first DL 50GB title.
Also a BD insider from Sun has floated an estimate of the % of DL titles at 20% for the first few years. OK, so we're supposed to settle for SL 25GB discs for 80% of our movies!?!? For years until Sony can figure it out?
Curiously, 20% seems to be a "magic" number. If you create X BD discs with 80% SL/20% DL the average is (drum roll): 30GB. Which happens to be the size of the HD DVD releases (not counting the handful of combo discs which are supposed to be 30GB soon anyway).
BD supporters are in the strange position of supporting the idea that 25GB is "enough"-- most don't seem to care and think it'll be OK for studios to release say 5% in BD50. That's a very weird position to take after carrying the "more capacity" banner for so long. After all, wouldn't they want to support the side that had the most capacity? Realistically, even when/if BD50 is released, 90+% of the BDs released will have LESS capacity.
The BD supporters have jumped from one "killer advantage" to another each of which was supposed to doom HD DVD to the tech junk pile.
Capacity
Peak Bandwidth. The current advantage that BD supporters are clinging to. Most likely will be a non-issue-- the proof is in the current HD DVD releases. BD was designed with capacity and bandwidth matched to MPEG-2. VC-1 requires less capacity and bandwidth. If BD switches to mostly using VC-1, the space/bandwidth advantage disappears (for movie playback).
Oh, yea, and Blu-ray players cost twice as much...
This is significant because BHD was supposed to be the first DL 50GB title.
Also a BD insider from Sun has floated an estimate of the % of DL titles at 20% for the first few years. OK, so we're supposed to settle for SL 25GB discs for 80% of our movies!?!? For years until Sony can figure it out?
Curiously, 20% seems to be a "magic" number. If you create X BD discs with 80% SL/20% DL the average is (drum roll): 30GB. Which happens to be the size of the HD DVD releases (not counting the handful of combo discs which are supposed to be 30GB soon anyway).
BD supporters are in the strange position of supporting the idea that 25GB is "enough"-- most don't seem to care and think it'll be OK for studios to release say 5% in BD50. That's a very weird position to take after carrying the "more capacity" banner for so long. After all, wouldn't they want to support the side that had the most capacity? Realistically, even when/if BD50 is released, 90+% of the BDs released will have LESS capacity.
The BD supporters have jumped from one "killer advantage" to another each of which was supposed to doom HD DVD to the tech junk pile.
Capacity
- Was supposed to give us more extra features/better PQ. Almost all BD releases so far have come with fewer extra features than the SD DVD or the HD DVD version. Some have had NO extra features at all.
- BD PQ is subpar because the encoding tools are MPEG-2 only-- even though Sony had to have an idea that BD50 wasn't going to make it to launch.
- BD50 is MIA "indefinitely".
- BD-J was supposed to give better interactivity than iHD. But the BD-Live profile isn't mandated until mid-2007. BD-Live, therefore, isn't supported by the Samsung and possibly not even the other BD players this year (including PS3?). Even so, this will lead to a segmented market where some BD players won't be able to play all the "special features" because their player won't support BD-Live. That makes it unclear how much support studios will give to BD-Live features.
- BD-Live is required for PIP (like HD DVDs IME feature). MI3 coming 10/30/06 will have this feature for the HD DVD version but NOT the BD version. This is because the only BD player (the Samsung) doesn't support BD-Live.
- No one has been able to verify that the Samsung even supports BD-J. People have tried to figure out how to author a simple BD which would include a simple BD-J script to verify that BD-J exists. Apparently no BD insider is willing to help them author or to provide such a disc. Rumor is that studios were told not to use BD-J for "at least a year". No one can demonstrate BD-J at this point on a commercial player...
- Beaten to death-- studios will follow the money, though. HD DVD titles are outselling BD titles. The 10th ranked HD DVD titles outsells the TOP SELLING BD title on Amazon.
- They will also follow the money (see studio support)
- Rumor is that there are other CE companies interested in making HD DVD players
- Also beaten to death-- a big topic for BD supporters because this one hasn't been destroyed/proven (yet).
Peak Bandwidth. The current advantage that BD supporters are clinging to. Most likely will be a non-issue-- the proof is in the current HD DVD releases. BD was designed with capacity and bandwidth matched to MPEG-2. VC-1 requires less capacity and bandwidth. If BD switches to mostly using VC-1, the space/bandwidth advantage disappears (for movie playback).
Oh, yea, and Blu-ray players cost twice as much...
Last edited by awmurray; 08-16-06 at 12:25 PM. Reason: Added to Peak Bandwidth section
#143
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Originally Posted by penguin42
I havn't laughed that hard in a while. I'm hoping that whoever wrote that got a nice paycheck from Sony.
Quote from the article:
Those who have the money to buy the $6000 rear projection will buy Blu-ray.
The sales figures are completely opposite of what the guy assumes.
It is full of laughs:
join the rest of 'em bashing Blu-ray at the AVSForum and convince yourself that you can make a difference.
I believe Blu-ray can and will deliver the ultimate HD picture and sound quality and don't care if HD DVD is a little better right now.
As much as I am convinced that Blu-ray will win, much of this is based on promises.
Last edited by awmurray; 08-16-06 at 11:32 AM.
#145
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Who the hell is that guy who wrote the article? I didnt see his credentials anywhere.
While I do see BD becoming better in the future, his reasoning for BD winning was idiotic.
While I do see BD becoming better in the future, his reasoning for BD winning was idiotic.
#146
DVD Talk Godfather
This is the only logical thing he's said:
People will recognize that all their favorite CE companies and favorite movies are available on Blu-ray and see the value, after all content is king.
#148
DVD Talk Legend
Sony started shipping its 50GB recordable media today, so one can only assume that prerecorded movie releases on 50GB discs will be upcoming soon.
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/08/16/sony_50gb_blu_ray/
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/08/16/sony_50gb_blu_ray/
#149
DVD Talk God
Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt
Sony started shipping its 50GB recordable media today, so one can only assume that prerecorded movie releases on 50GB discs will be upcoming soon.
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/08/16/sony_50gb_blu_ray/
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/08/16/sony_50gb_blu_ray/
With a suggested retail of $48 per disc, what the hell are the movies going to cost???
#150
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Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt
Sony started shipping its 50GB recordable media today, so one can only assume that prerecorded movie releases on 50GB discs will be upcoming soon.