I'm sorry, I thought we were just discussing price. BD currently costs around twice HD-DVD. That's a pretty discouraging stat right there. I don't know why you're not able to use actual numbers instead of stretching crediblity by comparing the cheapset retail price of HD-DVD's least expensive player to the list price of BD's most expensive players.

I am using actual numbers. One is out and the other two are not.

How much cheaper are those players going to get if and when they finally come out? Most places (amazon/BB/CC) don't even have them for sale. The Sony, also, is NOT discounted. It's still 1k.

The samsung is so bad that it's not even worth mentioning. No one's buying it and I suspect that once the others come out, they won't sell another.

And I'm still waiting for the answer to my other question.

Your rationale is amusing, but not convincing. I still don't see why you need to stretch the truth to support your "nearly triple the cost" argument, instead of going for the more reasonable "more than double the cost" statement. We're still talking hundreds of dollars here.

I don't own either format, and I don't plan to any time soon. For me they're too expnsive still, and I'm not convinced of either format winning the "war" right now. I have seen them in action though, and at the moment HD-DVD has the edge in cost and quality. I'm not ready yet to discount BD from the equation though, and I feel it's foolish to do so.

This is just speculation by an independent firm of the type that estimated Toshiba losing hundreds of dollars on each HD-DVD player sold.

From another article:
http://www.webwereld.nl/articles/425...shipments.html
"Mitsubishi UFJ Securities believes that supply problems for some electronics components used in the gaming machine will cause Sony to miss its target. The components in question were not identified."

They're basically guessing, and while it's an informed guess, it's not fact.

I don't think anyone has (on the HD DVD side). It's funny, though, because early on, EVERYONE on the BD side said that HD DVD was dead. I don't think anyone has said it about BD as of yet.

But just like the editor of the official playstation magazine says, who cares? She doesn't want a cheaper version of the newest movie machine, she wants a competitively priced gaming machine.

If the BR players are able to decode VC1, why are they not using it universally?

There is no PQ/AQ difference between the A1 and the XA1 and both have the same input/output (both have HDMI).

So it would be fair to compare price between the A1 and the PS3 (with HDMI). The PS3 with HDMI lists for $599. The A1 lists for $499.

Now the actual prices are going to be more interesting. The A1 can be had around $375 if you take advantage of some sales... if not it isn't hard to get one for $450. So $450 for the A1 is an actual after tax street price. Also, the XA1 was recently on sale for $699 delivered.

When do you suppose you'll be able to get a PS3 at a street price of < $450 including tax? For a good while into 2007 you won't find one for even the $599 list price. They'll probably still be more expensive than the XA1 @ $699 for a good while.

So HD DVD wins on price, too. Even over a highly subsidized BD "player". Oh, and I'm one of those who don't necessarily believe that the A1 is subsidized by Toshiba.

I'm not sure i understand your question.

WB wasn't using it because their first titles had already been done in MPEG2.

And Sony, well, we already know their problem.

Paramount, Fox and Disney are all supposed to be using VC1 on BD.

Plenty of people seem to. I don't think that anyone's been arguing that Sony is going to have a hard time selling the PS3s they make.

Why are you listing the Blu-ray players in American dollars but the HD DVD player in Canadian dollars?

MSRP of the HD-A1 is $499 USD and always has been.

Sure....at launch....in the long run though, they very well might due to the pricing.

My bad. I thought no one was using VC1 on BR for some reason. What is Sony's problem with it?

Microsoft makes it and they would rather rot in hell than pay them.


OH and an update. MI3 will be MPEG2 for paramount on BD.

/sarcasm on....

nice lol, another BD movie that is going to look super stellar!

I had the opportunity to watch Benchwarmer's at Fry's on BD. All I could do when the salesman asked me...."sweet isn't it?" was reply "haha."

Z

I can't imagine Sony would put out an inferior product just because they are trying to keep from paying someone else.

I just posted that like I was serious.

"It's not inferior until we say it's inferior."

Well. I won a contest and got some money and this November,I'm buying a Playstation 3. So Damn it,Blu-Ray better be getting better,as HD-DVD is looking pretty good right now compared to Blu-Ray(IMO).

So I assume you're getting it to play games?

Edit: i wasn't being a smart-ass. It's a legitimate question.

Yes I'm getting it to play games(Hellboy,GTAIV,Star Wars:Next Gen,Marvel Ultimate Alliance). But it would be nice to know that Blu-Ray would be a nice deal sweetener,which right now it looks to be a high price for the losing HD System as a "bonus".

And you have reason to think this because?

It's just supposition that Sony is not currently using VC-1 because of animosity towards Microsoft. People have also supposed that Sony sticks to MPEG2 because of its own patents on the codec. The official Sony line is that they stuck with MPEG2 for their initial offerings because it's a codec they're familiar with and could guarantee quality from, while the other codecs were too new to work with at the time. The official line is called into question because HD-DVD managed to work with VC-1 within the same timespan, to an apparent advantage in quality over MPEG2. Thus, people start supposing what Sony's "true" motives were. Sony has hinted that shifting to another codec later on is a possibility.

Right, and it's just supposition that Sony's PS3 controller won't have rumble because they've lost a licensing lawsuit with Immersion, the company that owns the rumble technology used in all video game controllers. The official Sony line is that the rumble would adversely affect their motion sensing technology, even though the new Wii controller has far more sensitive motion sensing technology, rumble, and a speaker. And Immersion has said they have new, smaller rumble packs that would not in any way affect a motion sensor like the PS3 controller features.

But, hey, let's just give Sony the benefit of the doubt. I mean, they've proven themselves to only do what's best for the consumer in every situation, right?

The PS3 will, in the long run, drop in price. As will the 360 and HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players, and pretty much any consumer electronics device.