Vertical Banding on HD DVD
 

Is anyone else seeing this? I've noticed that there are slight vertical bands in the video of, I think, every HD DVD I have. It reminds me of the way XBOX and PS2 played DVDs, not as pronounced of course.

Overall I'm very happy with HD DVD, particularly The Chronicles of Riddick which looks absolutely amazing, except for this small issue.

Is this something that the firmware upgrade fixes?

I just got mine on Friday, and so far I've watched CoR, Serenity, 16 Blocks, and Constantine. I can't say anything other than it looks absolutely amazing, didn't notice any vertical banding at all. The only thing I noticed was Serenity was a bit softer than the other titles, and I think it's a toss up between CoR and 16 Blocks for reference quality.

It's most noticable in darker areas.

Are you watching on LCD?

No I have a Toahiba 65" rear-projection (the old kind). My DVD player doesn't do this. The only time I've ever seen it is with the PS2 and XBOX DVD playback and now the HD-A1.

Well the "toahiba" brand is really one of a kind ;)

Seriously, could it be signal/cable interference?

Now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder if it could be the HDMI cable. I didn't want to pay $150 for the Monster cable, so I got a generic HDMI-to-DVI cable instead for about $50. I'll have to try the component cables to see if the effect is still there. If it is gone, maybe I'll have to bite the bullet and get Monster.

I have not seen any defects even when looking for them. I'm using an LCD projector with component inputs. No banding.

Some random thoughts:

* Are you using component or HDMI? If you can use both, does it happen for both?

* There is a setting in the HD-A1 for darker blacks. I think in the manual "darker blacks" uses 0 IRE instead of 7.5 IRE... this may not have any effect for you, but...

EDIT: Just saw that you were using HDMI-to-DVI. I think there are colorspace issues that have not been fixed (that I know of) with HDMI-to-DVI from the HD-A1. Try component cables and see if that fixes it...

Don't bother getting a Monster cable. It is a digital signal and wouldn't have the same sort of interference problems found with analog cables.

Definitely try your component inputs and see if those show the problem. Also if you have any other devices you can attach through HDMI/DVI that would be good to try so you can rule out the HD DVD player.

Already did enhanced black mode. Yeah I'll try the component cables tonight and see if that kills the banding.

My only question then is "is it the cable or is it a glitch in the HD-A1?" I think I read an interview with a guy who is intricately involved in HDMI production and he made it sound like HDMI is universal across the board and I am deducing from that that brands don't make a difference.

My HD-A1 is the first thing I've ever owned that uses HDMI. Yeah that comment about Monster jibes with what I remember from that HDMI interview. I just bought the player on friday so I'm kind of assuming it has 1.2 in it, though I haven't checked. But I haven't heard anyone else talk about this issue so I'm sort of assuming that it's just me.

Of course it could be the DVI port on my TV. I hope not because I obviously can't do anything about that.

There is an issue with using HDMI->DVI with colorspace conversion on the HD-A1. I just looked around and didn't see where it was fixed yet. Basically you get fewer colors if you use an HDMI->DVI with the HD-A1. I would think this could cause banding because the color gradiant wouldn't be as gradual (especially on the shadows). Also, I don't believe that the HD-A1 will pass BTB (blacker than black) or WTW (whiter than white) over HDMI->DVI. I believe firmware version 1.2 fixed that problem, but not the colorspace conversion problem. If anyone knows more about the technical details, feel free to refute/clarify what I just said.

Also, apparently this does not happen with HDMI->HDMI-- only HDMI->DVI.

Try the component cables and see what happens... I'm guessing it will clear up the banding.

Are the bands stable or do they move?

No they don't move. In dark/black areas, there are vertical bands of lighter color. It's subtle, but obvious if you are looking for it.

I'm beginning to think that HDMI is one big scam! It sounds like the only reason it was invented was to cut off piracy and it's actually not a damn bit better than component!

Bingo.

Is it a problem for HDMI->DVI cables, or HDMI->DVI adaptors, as well? Because I just bought a DVI->HDMI adaptor, as I was using a DVI cable on my Oppo.

Being that the banding is static, the colorspace issue definitely won't apply here. Honestly, it sounds like it is the display and not the player.

Hi Fettastic,

I think it must be something in your display chain.

Two ways this can happen - HDMI negotiation with the display sometimes results in a lower bit-plane signal being sent, if the display drags it down.

Also, the processing can affect the PQ, both in the display and before it.

For instance, I have the contrast in my VP set quite high, and I noticed a scene in JarHead (after their aborted attempt to "snipe" the two Iraqui officers, while they were stumbling through the darkened desert, before they arrived at the vistory "party" with the rest of the troops) where there was significant banding in the background. I dropped the contrast setting, and the banding disaappeared.

What's on the disc has no banding, but so much can happen in between the disc and one's eyes, that it really means you have to do some cumulative tweaking while viewing certain titles to get it perfect.

I'm just glad someone else has seen this besides me.

I attatched the component cables last night and didn't see any banding, but let me tell you, the PQ SIGNIFICANTLY degraded. It was practically DVD quality. So if you haven't seen HD DVD with HDMI yet, then you haven't seen HD DVD.

I cranked up the sharpness and studied the compression artifacts a bit. Yes there are compression artifacts, plenty of them. These are not some sort of anomalies. I know what compression artifacts look like and that's what these were. Anyway, it was difficult to tell, but I suspected that these artifacts themselves were creating the banding. In other words, there were dark artifacts next to a strip of light artifacts, followed by a strip of dark artifacts. I was watching Syriana by the way.

I don't think anything the cable or my TV could do could possibly change the artifacting so if that is what's causing it, then it is on the disc. Like I said, it was difficult to tell.

Just do 'ol Fett a favor though. Sometime tonight or something, just crank the sharpness all the way and watch an HD DVD for 5 minutes. Look closely at dark areas and see if you can see that banding. If enough of us see it, then it's something on the disc.

Like I said, it's subtle and not a huge deal, but it is a little distracting at times.

You already said that the banding was static, how could that be related to compression artifacts then? Also, have you tried looking for banding problems while in the players Setup menu?

I said they weren't moving if that's what you mean. The menus are crystal clear.

Static = not moving. Meaning they stay at the same part of the screen and don't move around depending on a specific scene.

Yes, but it sounded like you were applying the other meaning which confused me. I agree it implies that something is going on somewhere between the disc and my screen, but I can't deny that at least it LOOKED like the compression artifacts could have been causing it.

If you can picture a blank field of let's say beige color. Crank up the sharpness and you can see the compression artifacts that make up that field. If you look closely at them, there are as series of light "blocks" butted up against a series of darker "blocks" and so forth. As I say it is still difficult to tell for certain, but it at least raises the possibility that the problem is in the compression because I don't see how a cable or a DVI port could create blocks of color, or even change the color of blocks. I may never figure it out, I'm just relaying what I observed and asking if anyone else has seen it too. At least one other person here has.

I should also point out that you only see the banding in large fields of a single color. When there is lots of detail on the screen they are completely absent.

Cranking up the sharpness on your TV introduces those artifacts. They aren't inherent on the disc. Do you really not understand that?

I guess I do not understand that sharpness creates compression artifacts. -ohbfrank-

Pixellation as you described can be caused by more than just poor compression. If your TV adjustment controls can get rid of it, that really does suggest that it is not encoded on the disc.

How do you know they are compression artifacts? From what you have said, your TV sounds like it isn't calibrated at all.

Do you have DVE or Avia? If not, it's time to invest $20 in one of them and calibrate your set. As you get into higher resolution sources, miscalibration is going to make your PQ suffer more and more.

General rule of thumb: if you are the only one seeing these particular artifacts, it is most likely that it is a problem on your end.

It doesn't get rid of it, just makes it less pronounced.

Are you saying that HD DVD discs don't have compression artifacts? I'm telling you flat out, they are there. If I'm seeing them and you're not, maybe it's because my TV is better than yours. I assure you, it is in tip-top condition.

I think you all are just going to have to agree to disagree.

What I'm telling you is this: if only you are seeing it, the chance that they are compression artifacts is just about nil.

The other poster who saw similiar artifacts said he saw them only when he cranked up his contrast. Not during normal viewing.

You have calibrated your TV? Using what?

Your TV may be in "tip-top condition" (whatever that means), but if you are using anything close to factory settings, there is a good chance the picture could look a hell of a lot better. I'm not trying to be antagonistic, just trying to explain that calibrating the set (and not with one of those worthless THX Optimizers) can do a lot of good.

Frankly I don't see what any of this has to do with my TV. This isn't a pissing contest. You posted for advice, I gave you mine.

I used Video Essentials once, but since I have access to the service modes it's kind of pointless. No I haven't paid some guy to come out and do what I can do for myself for free. My image is sharp like a knife. My colors, black levels, gradations, geometry and everything else are perfect.

I just have this one point about the banding which has never happened on either my DVD player, VCR or over the air broadcasts. That kind of rules out the calibration right there.

Admittedly I tied the compression artifacts in with the banding, but that is a weak theory at best, bolstered by the fact that someone else saw them as well.

What I'm talking about right now this moment is that HD DVDs have artifacts, apart from banding. They are real, they are there. If you don't believe me, crank up the sharpness and pause the picture. Now look closely and you will see them. I'm not talking about grain, I'm talking about compression artifacts. These come from the fact that HD DVDs, just like Blu-ray movies are in fact compressed. Artifacts are an unavoidable side effect of this process. I have never seen compression artifacts on VHS tapes or over the air broadcast for one very simple reason, they do not exist.

As for the banding issue, I don't know what's causing it. Since no reviews have mentioned it, I can only assume that either there is something wrong with my player or my TV's DVI input or maybe the HDMI-to-DVI cable. I don't feel like paying $150 for a monster cable only to see the banding remain so I guess I'm just going to live with it.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Please stop with this nonsense.

Ummmmm.......compression leads to artifacts. This is a fact of life you're just going to have to get used to. Once again, if you don't believe me, crank up the sharpness and pause the picture.

For the record I watched The Last Samurai last night and only saw slight banding in 2 shots. One was in the sky as they approached the village after Cruise was captured, and not again until a pan across the sky onto Cruise and Watanabi just before the battle.

This suggestion is exactly what Josh is saying is so ridiculous, though.

Well, that and your saying that you don't need a reference to calibrate your TV because you have access to the service menu. I have access to a kitchen, but that doesn't make me a master chef either.

The serive menu has a convergence grid, so why would I need another grid? The THX quality control has just about everything on those calibration discs, so why would I need anything else? And besides all of that, none of those calibration discs keeps compression artifacts from appearing out of thin air or cause banding so I fail to see the point of it even being brought up.

Are you then saying that HD DVD does not have any compression artifacts whatsoever? I don't know why you are all so reluctant to admit this very obvious fact. if you can't see them then your TV is the one that isn't in tune.

Turning up the sharpness is not going to create something that isn't there. Yes it highlights grain but as I've stated a couple of times, I'm not talking about grain. Am I speaking Chinese or something?

Mod note -- merging two successive posts into one.

Yes, it does.

Are you talking about edge halos? Sharpness does not create compression artifacts. I, perhaps foolsihly, assumed everyone on here knew what a compression artifact was.