Oh COME ON!

To the basic consumer, they're the same. There's no difference. That's just all semantics.

Oh, right. I forgot that HD-DVD doesn't allow extra content on its discs beyond the movie. Oh, wait. What's that I see? Hmmmm... I guess all those "Extras" menus on my HD-DVDs are figments of my imagination.

Give a rest, will ya? Your specious claims don't stand up to any kind of scrutiny.

Well the average man doesn't know exact percentages they are going to know if alot of there favorite tites are availble on one format and not the other. If you can get all titles from one format on the other but not Spider-Man or Alien its done done done done.

Exactly. When Lee M. Cardholder gets a little spending money in his pocket and decides to go to BB to pick up a hi-def DVD player he's not gonna know or even think to check which studios are exclusive to which format. He will go with the player that cost half as much to do the same thing.

It's going to be a long time before EITHER format would have all of someone's favorite movies movies movies movies.

If the Blu-Ray studios don't still release 2-disc sets, they are crazy. Right or wrong, consumers have always associated more discs with higher overall quality (and a willingness to spend more for these releases). It happens with DVD now (releases that would easily fit on a DVD-9 being put on two discs), it will happen with these formats.

You've said it yourself, that storage size doesn't matter for publishing movies. For movies, these two formats are indeed essentially identical. But for computer use, it isn't close - Blu-Ray is the far superior storage format.

I should have been more clear; I was referring to the first gen hd-dvd players, not the discs. What good will any of the first gen players be to a 1080p owner? Yes, they'll still play discs well, but for $500-60 I better get something damn good. I realize there aren't a lot of them right now, but I still think it's ridiculous to sink this much money into a player and not expect it to hold up for a while. I want it to work when I get a 1080p tv. So I'll wait until both BR and HDDVD have 1080p players out and I'll evaluate price, catalog, and future prognosis then.

Again, if the PS3 comes out of the gate at $500-600 and Sony hasn't lost too much footing by this Fall, I think BR is going to win.

There are a lot of "if's" in this equation. At this point, everyone on both sides is COMPLETELY speculating.

It'd be nice if Toshiba released some sales figures. Given how well these things are selling, you'd think they want to show off a little.

Yeah, its funny how confident the BD supporters are without even a hint of PS3 announcement or even a player on the market.

Im by no means saying that HD-DVD will win or IS winning this battle, but the sony fanboys sure seem to speculate wildly without anything to back it up.

The sony fanboys seem to want to declare a winner now! Maybe it makes them feel better?? I dont know.

If you had the slightest bit of knowledge of what they are trying to implement with BD-J, you would be singing a much different tune.

Again.

Can someone who is one of the "blu-ray people" make a statement without coming across as absolute OR condescending? That'd be great.

Yes, they have here:

What will BD-J be able to offer than iHD cannot match?

And will anyone care? Everyone I know seems to dislike the Infinifilm version of movies found on certain DVDs that are currently on the market. Correct me if I am way off, but at least in my mind, both BD-J and iHD are glorified (probably far technically advanced) versions of Infinifilm. It just doesn't seem to me that interactivity with a movie is something most people want or care about.

EDIT - And if BD-J is so great, why did HP (a Blu-Ray supporter) urge Blu-Ray to adopt iHD over BD-J?

I am so unbelievably sick and tired of saying this but it can't do the same thing. 1080p support is the major reason for the price difference. Drop 1080p and the price difference will be very small. Most people won't buy a new format without knowing if they have there favorite titles. When one format gets 100% studio support it wins. If HD-DVD gets it first it wins if Blu-Ray gets it first it wins. I believe Blu-Ray has this in the bag because getting Universal to support Blu-Ray is far more possible then Sony supporting HD-DVD.

Im so unbelievably sick of you making up these stupid black/white rules.

Look at video game systems. Some games are exclusive to certain consoles. So, people have both.

This will be a very long process and just because one has 100% studio support DOESNT necessarily mean that its over.

Also, the price difference...do you have anything to back up your 1080p statement? or is it coming out of your ass (or excuse me, possibly soon to be Digi's ass)?

On what do you base this (yet another absolute) claim? Do you really think replacing the HDMI 1.1 chip in the HD-A1 with an HDMI 1.3 chip would have added $500 to the cost of the player? It already has to have a decoder for 1080p24, or it wouldn't be able to read the video from the discs at all.

iHD - Uses XML

BD-J - Uses Java

XML a markup language (like HTML) and Java is an object oriented language (like C++). I hope I don't need to get any more detailed then that to show the huge difference between the two applications.

Why did Disney (who co-developed iHD with Microsoft) choose to use BD-J over iHD? Because it is better.

HDMI v1.1 is fully capable to transmit a 1080p image. It was the fact that Toshiba selected a cheaper chip which didn't.

This is a largely irrelevant comparison. XML is a content structure "language," Java is a programming language (both are "object oriented," BTW). I have written numerous Java programs that read, parse and write XML data streams. Does iHD preclude the use of Java as a language to parse the XML?

I stand corrected. All of the articles I have read indicated that 1.3 was required for full 1080p support. But I just went to the horse's mouth (the hdmi.org web site), and re-read the specs, and you are quite correct.

However, this does not address my question, it only modifies it. Do you really believe that the HDMI chip used in the HD-A1 is $500 cheaper than the one that will be used in the PS3?

I call Toshiba's decision to use the 1080i format which 95% of HDTVs are limited to and 100% of HDTVs can use to keep the cost at $500 genius. 1080p sounds great but by the time it matters we will probably be upgrading our players anyway. HD DVD is already future proof with the discs, the hardware is easily replaceable as long as the disc library is 1080p. That's if 1080p output is a big enough deal to even bother upgrading to.

I half agree with you. I do believe that Toshiba was right to offer a 1080i only cheap solution. I hope Blu-Ray does the same this summer. It would have been smartest for them to offer both the HD-A1 and a more expensive 1080p model on the same day. 1080p entirely responsible for the price difference. Another is the higher cost of Blu-Rays more fine blue lasers and another is Toshiba is willing to sell at very minimal profits to make royalities fees on the software.

I completely agree....My Sammy tv is 720p rez and I dont plan to upgrade it any time soon....I may get a projector within 5 years or so when I build a media room, but come on, by then, ill buy a new player to put in there. I could keep this one with my 61in DLP for its life.

Seeing that a large majority of consumers dont even have an HDTV, much less a 1080p HDTV, this was a wise marketing decision on Toshibas part.

Yes, there will be a 1080p version out at some point, but for now, this will do wonders and it costs the consumer less. It gives them a slight edge over BD in this regards.

First you say that 1080p is entirely responsible for the price difference (a claim that has no basis in fact), and then you proceed to list two other factors in the price difference that have nothing to do with 1080p. So which is it?

Yeah, I know the difference between Java and XML. But what is so mind-blowingly amazing that Blu-Ray has planned for BD-J? I know Java can do more than XML, but exactly what does Blu-Ray have planned for BD-J that makes it so superior to iHD?

My question is what advantage (in terms of products that are planned to be delivered) does a programming language offer?

I don't know too much about either (iHD or BD-J) and there doesn't seem to be much information on either. And I still think most consumers won't give a crap about either. But I'm curious what Blu-Ray will deliver with BD-J that support your claims of BD-J being so amazingly better.