It was originally guessed that Toshiba was losing money on their $499 HD-DVDp, but Toshiba has since said they are indeed turning a profit on the player sales.

It probably isn't a big profit at all, but unless Toshiba is outright lying, I'd trust them over an article that makes a wild guess about the cost of the to manufacture the HD-DVD players.

BD people (especially over at AVS) are harping on this issue like crazy lately. It's the latest tactic they're using on how to "knock down" HD DVD...as if it matters at this point. Manufacturing costs will come down and the 2g version will be even cheaper. Hell, Toshiba has already said it may be out before the end of this year.

No, that was Mr. Lewis's article on CNN/Money. At least the writer of the article your criticizing is one of us (meaning a cinephile).

http://money.cnn.com/2006/07/07/tech...dgets.fortune/

Damn, I know many havent been released, but looking at the digital bits release lists for both formats, HD-DVD looks like the shit right now...

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...ses.html#hddvd

Before it's official launch? I don't know where you've been, but Blu-ray officially launched last month. It launched like the Titanic. You see that big iceberg in front of you? That's HD DVD.

While I don't really think BD is on death's door (yet), I find it hard to argue with most of the points he made. I don't think he made a compelling counter-argument for BD's better studio line up though. Things are pretty bleak for Sony right now. One or two more major fuck-ups or delays will spell the end of BD, IMO.

I think it is important to keep in mind when reading this that this is not meant to be an unbiased piece; it is their justifications for endorsing HD-DVD over BD. Unlike the CNN and Money pieces, they are not presented as an unbiased source of information. Bias aside, most of what he is saying in the artice is true. More than can be said for that other article.

Also, I don't think he was suggesting to not want BD-only films in HD. I think the point he's trying to make is that quickest end to the format war is for consumers to back one format and shun the other, killing one. I don't 100% agree with everthing in the article, but it is way more factual than many we've seen.

He made some true statements here and there, but it is insanely biased. He didnt show a single good feature of BR which has many. Also, i truely beleive that everyone is underestimating the campaign that will be starting in oct/november. Sony will advertise that millions of BR players are already in homes (PS3) and the public will react to that. I doubt there will even 100k or so HD-DVD players in homes by then. In other words, all HD-DVD has is early adopters. They dont have the general public and they dont have the CE industry. Its still WAY to early to tell whats going to happen.

Once again, your argument is now for HD vs. the future for BD. I would like you to tell us two good features of BD that he did not mention in his article. I defy you to do it. I'd also ask you to point out two inaccuracies.

PS3? It is impossible to read the future, but if:
they can't come through with the lasers
or they can't come through with the media
or the conversion of an existing line or construction of a new one is as expensive as they say
or there are problems with the cell
or developers are as jumpy as reported
or people balk at the price
etc etc
things could be very rocky for PS3. A good chunk of the gaming community is pretty sour on Sony ramming a format down their throats as a trojan horse. This year will be a sell out. In six months you Sonyheads will be shouting that from the hilltops. You'll say we doubted it. We don't. Come back in 18 months and we'll see how PS3 is doing.

Problem is Sony has put BD and PS3 in this basket and if one goes down, it takes the other with it.

Additonally, early adopters, at least in the gaming world make or break companies. Ask Sega. There is no "mainstream" without the EE's in videogames.

Sony does have the CE industry. For now. They are reportedly fucking over their partners by shifting most of the available lasers to PS3 leaving them (CE's) with fewer units to get to stores.

Oh and I just wanted to say something about people mocking Best Buy for 'pushing BR'.

Yes i've been too a couple Best Buys and they did have BR now in the old HD demo area with HD just around the corner on the shelf.

But I do not see it as BB attempting to 'push' BR over HD,instead they are just marketing a new consumer product. And to make it visible,it must be on an aisle in plain view. HD had a few weeks/month or two in the spotlight and now BR is out and they must make that known to customers as well. Otherwise it would just sit on a shelf somewhere out of view and most people wouldn't notice it unless they were already aware of such a product.


Also if the new product were not selling well and something else came out. They would decide to see how well that product does over the other.

But it has nothing to do with 'playing favorites' of which format they prefer and more too do with making profit off whatever sells.

They used to have a big UMB section which is now done too a puny little shelf for obvious reasons.

EXACTLY right....Blitz is criticizing the author for comparing both formats RIGHT NOW. You cant look into the future and say that one will be better.

Currently, BD does NOT have any benefits over HD-DVD.

here's a new idea we should all try - lets just not compare the 2 formats anymore since no matter whatever is said, unless its "Blu-Ray is God - All bow down" just gets countered with a "that article/response is bogus, biased, BS or whatever" that just continues on and on which is a complete waste.

I think we should just put all our efforts into building another time machine like the one Blitz has and hit the year 2007 and see how Sony and Blu-Ray is doing since the Almighty PS3 should be controlling everything like Skynet by then.

Okay Blitz this is a pet peeve but it's BD for Blue-ray Disc, not BR.

Duh...he's talking about Banana Republic ;)

Oh, it all makes sense now. :lol:

Once again, just because Blu-Ray players are in the homes of millions via the PS3, it doesn't mean enough people will purchase the BD movies to keep the format alive.

How many PSPs are out there? A decent amount I'd say. So how's that UMD format doing? Oh, that's right... Sony killed it because noone cared.

There are approximately 10,000,000 players in homes that play SACDs. The format is being outsold by vinyl!

For every HD-DVD player that is sold, it's guarranteed those people will purchase HD-DVD movies.

There will be tough times ahead for Sony.

BB is being PAID to put it there. They're also giving out false information. They completely deserve to be criticized.

As someone who hasn't jumped into the war since I haven't gone HD yet, I decided to do a podcast comparing the two. I called all over town to find a place that had both running on similar setups so we could do a compare/contrast. I was disappointed, but not shocked when I found out that CC and BB only had BD running here in town. What did surprise me was that even all the smaller/niche stores only had BD. I finally found a Colorado chain of stores that has both running on PJ's so we're going to do something wth them.
I'm thinking that Sony has to be pushing BD in a bad way for all these places to be essentially ignoring HD-DVD. Let me be clear, I don't have a horse in this race. That's why I want to go somewhere that shows me both options, especially in the case of the smaller stores. I just find it odd.

For everyone saying that im comparing BR vs HD-DVD for whats out NOW, ive stated many times that this wasnt a true launch. They just got it out there just to say, hey, BD exists, heres a sample. The true BD launch is comming oct/november with the real discs/players. Everyone keeps on comparing failed formats, but you have to realise, they were crappy formats to begin with.

S-ACD/DVD-Audio is funny to me. Most consumers are more aware of better video quality vs audio. And cd's sound great, mp3s sound great. There was never a need for it. UMD? Who honestly thought that would succeed? Sony already had a setup done and already had a capable player, they just took a chance at it to see what happens. They didnt put millions into the format, just to play movies.

Blu-Ray (BD!!!) is next gen video. We are seeing a rushed sample just to say, it does exist, right now, due to HD-DVD. If by PS3 launch, they dont have some kick ass flicks in amazing quality, tons of CE companys with players out there, then i too will not buy into it. Dont be silly, i prefer Blu-Ray because i want the best discs technically possible. But if its not in the cards by the PS3 time frame, then who knows. I doubt sony would allow anything like that to happen and do whatever it takes. They know the bad press, and the format has what it takes to put it over the top. It just needs to be applied, and im willing to wait and give them a chance to do so.

Thats because Blu-Ray players bring in over 2x the profit of HD-DVD sales. Not to mention when all the new players are out, thats just more ways to bring in the bux. If companys arent going to make enough $$$ off of a format, why would they carry it? They're out to make $$$, not to help the public get a kick ass deal. You will continue seeing this happen because no one other then toshiba makes a HD-DVD player and they are losing $$$ on each one sold (i dont beleive toshibas claims to making a profit, if it were true, others would jump in).

How much profit is there in selling a player that every one is returning?

True launch? rotfl

How many times has that been delayed.

First off, you are criticizing a review because you are basically saying he wasnt fair to BD by not showing its features. By all means, tell us which features that BD has right now and how he overlooked it?? Better pq?? No. More special features?? No.

Well, current BD and HD-DVD is a no brainer. HD-DVD is clearly better right now.

While you say its not a true launch, that just isnt so. Sony did launch BD. They rushed it and did it early, but its still a launch.

HD-DVD could easily say that April wasnt a true launch. They just started a huge $150 million marketing campaign, maybe this will be their "true" launch as you say.

Will BD get better at some point? Maybe, but sony has alot of work ahead of them.

Also, BTW, you said earlier that Sony is gonna advertise that there are millions of BD players already in homes. Well, they have to produce the PS3 first (which they are having problems doing) and then, they have to sell it (which analysts are saying will be tough with the price point). So, as usually, you are jumping to conclusions.

So is Toshiba's launch a true launch? I don't think so. I think it's safe to say that Toshiba's fake ass launch has gone much smoother than BD's.

Thank you. -wink-

Please show me links and proof of this. I don't care about them getting paid too promote the product(alot of chains have such deals with companies on a variety of products). But I would like to see the evidence of the false information. And could the false information be from the manufacturer itself and not the store?