Actually, Sony has already developed, quite a while ago actually, a single laser which can read DVDs and Blu-Ray discs. There is some information on that here:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Pr...0411/04-1116E/

Similar to other players, it appears that CD will be left out until they can make a laser which can support all three wavelengths.

Quick Question and I am pretty sure I know the answer. Just want a confirmation really.
Like many others in the forum, I'll be making decisions on which movies to upgrade, which to sell on regular dvd, which to keep for special features, etc. Also like many others I have a number of dvd players in the house, and a number I use. One in the bedroom, one in the movie room, one in the office, etc.
Will either of the new formats have any backward compatability with OLD DVD PLAYERS? Meaning a backup track that also has the movie available to see (in standard definition) on the same disc. Meaning I could replace Alien, but still be able to watch my Blu-Ray copy in the office on my standard dvd player. I fully assume this won't work. Dual Disc and many SACD options have a backup track that works in normal players, and I think this would be something to consider for movies.
If new HD-DVD or Blu-Ray discs won't work in any way on old players (as I assume) that means that all the people that upgrade and sell their old dvd copy, are upgrading their copy of the movie for their best hi-def system, but losing all options for any other dvd players (portable players, in the car, on the computer, etc.). A 50GB disc could easily have a 6 GB backup dvd file that works on regular dvd players and is just as good as dvd. Might help ease the transition to high-def.

There are 'hybrid' discs, although it seems to be more of an emphasis with HD-DVD than with Blu-Ray. I wouldn't expect this to be the norm.

There have been approved dual sided discs for both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. One side will contain HD data, the other standard DVD data. So it is very possible. If the studios decide to pursue this method, is another question that we won't be able to answer until they start releasing the movies.

I still think they'll go this route with a lot of titles, when the time comes. It keeps costs down for them while pushing the HD market forward. At the same time they can readjust dvd pricing a little higher leaving consumers in a buy all or nothing situation, and most will buy not knowing the difference of what they are buying. The CE side of things will flip HD dvd players in place of exisiting dvd players over time, even the Wal-mart brands.


P.S. I'd rather two different discs over flippers.

For DVD, 2 discs is cheaper than 2-sided, in terms of manufacturing cost. I would presume the same for the new formats.

From this article:

I have added this information to the first post. Judging from the amount of people pissed about the HD-DVD decision, Blu-Ray could really steal the show if they allow this.

I think the Blu-Ray camp will also require that the full HD signal will likely only work with HDMI connections. Fortunately, most non-CRT rear-projection TV sets built in the last few years sport HDMI inputs for 720p/1080i signals, so that is less of an issue than people think. Besides, by using HDMI you have a lot less "spaghetti tangle" of wiring since you only need to deal with one thin cable instead of three thicker RCA cables in the case of component video connections.

I 100% agree with this. The winning format has to woo early adopters, and those of us with sets without HDMI are the exact people they need to target. I think a huge majority of the HDMI-less would jump on rather quickly if this option were available.

The first announcement in the Adult Entertainment arena on this battle has been made. I added it to the first post, but it is in spoiler tags incase anyone is deeply offended by the names of the studios. I'm also investigating the claim that Toshiba will allow HD over component. Nothing but a phantom post so far.

I don't follow the business about needing both blue and red lasers to make the machines compatible with DVD. The blue lasers have a shorter wavelength than the red (hence the tighter packing of data possible) but they ought to be able to decode the pits in a regular DVD so long as the tracking mechanism and decoding algorithms can be set for the wider spacing of DVD. Two lasers might be a more convenient way of handling the two formats, but theoretically a single blue laser should suffice.

Am I missing something?

what exactly does it mean with 1080i and 1080p ?

1080i = 1080 scan lines interlaced
1080p = 1080 scan lines progressive

Today's conventional (NTSC) TV is interlaced, that is, only every other line is scanned with each pass of the electron gun. The reasons for this are described here:
http://www.cnet.com/Resources/Info/G...nterlaced.html

Progressive scan displays, such as your computer monitor, scan every line in each pass and generate a smoother picture that has less flicker and fewer motion artifacts.
A good description of the problem with interlaced pictures can be found here:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...e-10-2000.html
(beginning with " The Nature of Interlaced TV", part way down the page)

There are two high definition standards: 720p, 720 horizontal lines progressively scanned and 1080i, 1080 horizontal lines interlaced scanned. High definition monitors will convert signals of different resolutions to the native format of the display. So, a 1080i monitor will upconvert a 720p signal to 1080i, and vice versa.

The "holy grail" of the current High Definition technology would be 1080p, 1080 horizontal scan lines progressively scanned. That would give the benefit of the most lines (1080) with the best scanning process (progressive scanning).

At present there are few HD monitors that are 1080p. My impression is that it is not yet clear whether or not Blu-ray or HD-DVD will typically output 1080p signals. Even if they can, the discs may not be routinely encoded that way and players may have to do a work-around, as is done with progressive scanning DVD players today.

Both formats have been confirmed to store content in 1080p24, with no vertical filtering. I think Pioneer is the only CE company offering 1080p output at launch.

Another adult entertainment group has spoken up on the HD formats - actually more like side-stepped the issue, as they will be supporting both. I've updated the first post to reflect the new info.

If this is the case, I wonder why Universal is the only studio who is consistantly producing 2-sided releases.

Added HD-DVD White Paper which can be seen here:

http://www.dvdforum.org/images/HDDVD..._Paper_1-0.pdf

Added Amazon Blu-Ray site and link to Sony BDP-S1 at Amazon.

As someone in region 4 who buys region 1 DVDs from Amazon, I'm wondering what the regional encoding on blu-ray & HD-DVD is going to be like as there appears to be no R4 equivalent in the blu-ray regions.

I could definitely see R4 falling under Region 1 or Region 3 Blu-Ray. I do not believe the regional layout has been finalized yet, but from what we have seen, I would guess current R4 would be a Region 3 Blu-Ray.

Josh Z posted over at AVS that Toshiba told him no region coding on their Hd-dvd models. Either no region coding or they just havn't finished with it yet I guess.

I just want to thank all involed in this thread for making the techinical points of this format war a lot clearer to me . I'm still on the fence though as to who I want to support. Luckily for me my TV has HDMI, so HD-DVD is still an option at this point. Decisions, decisions.

If this is not a needed fact, please delete, mods.

PC World is reporting today that the First generation HD optical disc players won't allow copying. This was a big sell for some bigwigs over which format to support. Late last year HD DVD said that they would allow it, and the BR camp just sat on the fence with a, "we'll see..." attitude.
Well, according to Engadget.com (article) HD DVD has gone the way of the dark side when it comes to managed copy for it's first generation of discs. This, I think, is a major blow to the HD DVD camp, because I personally considered this a key component with their format. I dreamed of having a HTPC that I could use to stream my movies to all rooms of my house, or drastically shrink a movie to an .avi or similar format for viewing on a portable device.

http://yahoo.businessweek.com/techno...327_546762.htm

MARCH 27, 2006

Technology
By Cliff Edwards

Next-Gen DVDs' Blurry Picture

The battle between Blu-ray and HD-DVD was already tricky for consumers. But new content protection may mean buyers get even less than they might have hoped

After years of waiting, the new era of high-definition home theater has finally arrived. In April, Toshiba (TOSBF ) plans to introduce HD-DVD, its high-definition successor to the DVD player, two months ahead of rival consumer-electronics companies who plan to sell a competing format called Blu-ray Disc.

Electronics makers hope the new gear will keep sales in the $120 billion industry humming, while Hollywood hopes the lure of interactive features and crystal-clear pictures five times the resolution of current DVDs will jump-start slumping home-video sales.

"IT'S CRAZY." Here's the problem: Both camps are shooting themselves in the foot before they get to the starting line. Consumers already were faced with the prospect of mass confusion, thanks to two next-generation DVD formats, whose disks do not work in each other's machines but look essentially the same. Remember Betamax versus VHS? At least then you could tell one tape from the other.

But that's just the tip of the iceberg. Turns out, most of the 20 million high-definition TVs sold over the past three years aren't capable of displaying the disks in their full resolution. Worse, at least one major studio intends to downgrade the picture even more unless consumers hook their players up through a special, pricey cable aimed at preventing piracy.

"It's crazy," says chief analyst Richard Doherty of consumer-research firm Envisioneering. "The sticker on your new player promises the equivalent of a high-performance car, but the fine print says you may be buying an Edsel instead."

OPTING OUT. The new content-protection scheme would be the first time customers who have no intention of breaking copyright laws would be penalized because of piracy concerns. Current DVD releases like Batman Begins and Walk The Line include software to prevent unauthorized duplication, but still play normally.

New software included on both Blu-ray and HD-DVD releases, however, will automatically slash the picture quality in half, unless consumers have a relatively new connector and cable called HDMI to hook up players to their televisions. Only one in 20 HD sets sold to early adopters over the past few years has the right version of the connector. Only 15% of new sets sold this year will include it, and deliver the full 1080 resolution capable of showing such detail. "What do you have then? A very expensive DVD player," says Sony Senior Vice-President Tim Baxter.

To make matters more confusing, Sony and other consumer-electronics companies are adding features to the next-generation players that then may "upconvert," -- boost the image quality -- so the same disk may look vastly different, depending on which machine you purchase and the size of the television (see BW Online, 3/27/06, "Sony's Renaissance Geek"). Hoping to avoid such a scenario, four major studios -- Sony Pictures (SNE ), 20th Century Fox (NWS ), Disney (DIS ), and Paramount (VIA ) say they initially will not use the new copy protection on the first disks sold this year.

BETTING ON GAMES. Universal execs told BusinessWeek on Mar. 21 that they, too, will not use the copy protection. Execs at Warner Brothers declined to comment, but sources with knowledge of the studio's plans say "at least some" of the 20 releases planned through April will use the software.

The confusion may be just enough for consumers to say good night, and good luck. Already, a growing number of so-called technology influencers and Web sites are recommending sitting out the first round of the new DVD wars.

Many believe the best bet for either format to gain acceptance now lies with next-generation game consoles. Sony plans a November worldwide release of its new PlayStation 3, which will include a Blu-ray player. Execs at Sony hope by then that enough new HD sets will be sold, with the right connectors, to make the player worthwhile. And Microsoft (MSFT ) has said it may add an HD-DVD player to its Xbox 360 in coming months. Until then, the crystal ball for crystal-clear movies remains fuzzy.


I was going to post this as a separate story, but it looks like you guys have been discussing this for awhile.

I don't know why anyone without an HDMI compatible TV would even consider getting a HD DVD player.

I'm going to wait 2 or 3 years to see what happens.

Chris

Universal won't downsample HD DVD content.