So people who purchased T2 again to get the WM9 Hi Def version - is that double dipping? Same media - different codec.

I recall there were many posts when DVDs were only out for a year or two of people complaining they had to get the movie in VHS because the movie had not been released on DVD. Do a search on Star Wars or Indiana Jones. I consider it double dipping because the technology has been available for THREE YEARS. The equipment hasn't been available to home users but the technology hasn't been theoretical or beta for 3 years, it has been working well for three years. When a studio releases a better quality release a year after the original DVD is released, they know they could have done that the first time around but hey - people will buy some movies twice (or more). You may decide to call it upgrade dipping or whatever you like but a rose by any other name.

The consumer's "idea" of double dipping didn't really shine through until dvd came about. Up to that point the studios had a different money making process with VHS. Rent-Rent-Rent!!! Even LD didn't employ the current standard of re-re-releases that we see now.


99% of every title released on dvd will probably be released again. You have been warned!

Good link Premise. My thoughts exactly on the situation. The PS2 numbers are more staggering than I imagined.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...m/japan_dvd_dc

Latest news I've seen.

I myself would probably end up supporting Blu-Ray for these reasons:

1. Hardware manufacturer support, notably the inclusion of Blu-Ray support on PlayStation 3 and the fact Apple Computer supports the format.

2. The storage capacity of Blu-Ray discs is higher, which is better-suited for computer backups.

Question, if Blu-Ray becomes the new format. Will the current DVDs be able to play on the Blu-Ray players? Because if not then this is totally fucked up and I will NEVER buy one, and I dont see how anyone could support this if this is the case. Esspecially if they've got over a thousand dvds, or just a couple hundred.

Well the PS3 supports DVD.
DISC MEDIA
CD
PlayStation CD-ROM
PlayStation2 CD-ROM
CD-DA
CD-DA (ROM),
CD-R,
CD-RW
SACD Hybrid (CD layer),
SACD HD
DualDisc (audio side)
DualDisc (DVD side)
PlayStation 2 DVD-ROM
PlayStation 3 DVD-ROM
DVD-ROM
DVD-R
DVD-RW
DVD+R,
DVD+RW
Blu-ray Disc
PlayStation 3 BD-ROM
BD-ROM
BD

Calm down. Both formats will be backwards-compatible with DVD.

With regards to T2 WM9, if it won't play on a current DVD player (besides and HTPC) then I consider it a different format, hence an upgrade.

Theoretical? Pointless. If the consumer can't buy it, it's vaporware. I agree with you that many studios do this intentionally, I held off on I, Robot because R1 got a one disc release and the rest of the world got a two disc. Now the two disc is coming to R1, and I'll buy.

Hidef DVD is a differnt format. Period. It's not like Superbit or Divimax, where you just tweak the current methods while remaining in spec, it's entirely new. If you feel that buying your movies again on a new format is double dipping, then you're in the minority. I had several incarnations of the Star Wars trilogy on VHS and LD, yet I still wanted it to come out on DVD. (too bad I need to hang on to those other versions, grumble, grumble...)

Like the early days of DVD, most comments I see regarding the new discs are about when their favorite titles are going to be available. They want to upgrade! to a better format.

I will wait until the formats are sorted out. Blu-Ray and/or HD-DVD will go the way of the Zip Disk, the Betamax, the 8-Track, the Minidisc, and SACD.

What I hope would happen is that everything gets so muddled and expensive that no one buys the damn things and someone goes bankrupt.

There are at least two players out currently that do play WM9- quick search on google. Although this isn't even 1% of the players it is playable on current DVD players - so the question remains.

Hardly theoretical - There is an AV theatre place near me showing Blue Laser DVDs to demonstrate a $30,000 projector. While I haven't asked them if the BR is for sale, it is tangible. I might consider it vaporware if it never makes it to the general public though.

Let me state I respect your opinions so I don't want you to take this as a pissing match, I just strongly disagree. Frankly I don't think there is a wrong or a right, just opinions. If Webster's had a definition of double-dipping, I would state that is a fully defined term. Otherwise, I would think a poll would be the best way to prove me wrong.

I agree about the PS3 being the Trojan horse of BR. The big strike against HDDVD in this regard is that XBox 360 abandoned it in order to get out the door first.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the PS3 is not the success that PS2 was since the XBox wil hit first and hard. This will be a tough race to call. The XBox as the same coole cache that the PS1 had which led into the success of the PS2. XBox 360 could be the new market leader.

If this happens, it diminishes the number of BR drves in the hands of consumers.

I was starting to feel that way in my last post, like we're niggling over semantics, what was the original question anyways?

I think we're arguing over the definition of something that none of us like, so we're unable to resolve the issue. I think you're too jaded by the studios doubledipping of standard DVDs alone, and I shouldn't be mad at you about that.

Let me throw this at you as a tangent, I've heard a lot of videogame people talk about how the new consoles are coming too soon, that there's still new things to be had with the current generation of technology (and I sorta agree), do you think hidef DVD is coming too soon? There's hardly any penetration of HD displays, and I still see threads here where people tell stories of seeing people in stores wanting movies on VHS. Do you think it's too soon?

I don't think it's too soon. HDTVs are very affordable as of today. In fact, I've talked to friends who have HDTV already, and they are disappointed at the few channels that broadcast in HDTV, and why HiDef DVDs are taking so long to get to market. The justification for buying an HDTV is slipping (at least from those I've talked to who have them), and the companies better bring something to market or HD will have its potential market share shrink.

I think it's too soon. I also think it won't succeed. Most people dont even own hd tv sets. If it does succeed though, even though I say I won't now, I dred purchasing my current favs on the new format. What I dred more is double and triple dipping on the collectors/special/etc. editions of the hd dvd. I'd say in the next 2 years, between DVD and HD DVD I'd have purchased some movies 5-6 times just to have the definitive edition on hd dvd.

Blu-Ray just sounds cooler.




Stew

I will not double dip to own a movie I already own just because its HD. Hell, I don't think I've double dipped to get a special edition of a regular dvd. I don't see a point to it. In the future when i'm driving my flying car and eating nutrient pills for dinner, i may own an hd-tv and an hd-dvd player (and maybe a robot). then i will only buy new releases as they come out on hd. No wait, by then there will be something else for the addicts to drool over, and all the hicks in my town will still be at wal-mart asking where is the VHS TAPES????!

True of videophiles on the net. It will be interesting to see how Joe Six Pack feels though.

Better audio formats have been introduced, but nothing has remotely challenged 25 or so year old cd's. They're good enough for Joe Six Pack, and he see's no need to upgrade and rebuy his albums.

It will be interesting to see if the same happens with DVDs.

Most of us forget that Blu-Ray versions will not apply to many of the titles we currently own becase HD versions weren't filmed in the first place. Of course, that won't stop Blu-Ray editions from coming out, but overall, I don't expect to replace my entire DVD library with Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray will be an ADDITION to my DVD library, not a REPLACEMENT. Some of you are eluding to the fact Blu-Ray will be a replacement to DVD. I don't think it will. At least not in the next 5 years anyway.

The question I was raising is will it ever be more than simply an addition to people's DVD collections, especially for Joe Six Pack.

And if not, what will it's fate be.

Um, seriously? Film is higher than even High definition. It can't even be properly expressed in a number x other number resolution format because of it's nature.

The studios fully intend this as a replacement to DVD. Whether or not it happens depends on the format war.

Interesting question. I can't think of any technology (off the top of my head) other than weapons technology that is coming too fast. I think hidef DVD is a good thing. It will encourage more HDTV purchases - which will help get broadcasters on track for doing what had been agreed to a while back. I think that hidef DVD will also get HDTV manufacturers moving on releasing 1080p TVs faster. It think this would also boost the economy to some degree. Furthermore it might get more TV shows to be recorded in WideScreen! If you've played such as DukeNukem 3D, when it came out - you might really enjoy the gameplay. Now playing DN is like watching a poorly recorded VHS tape. Once you've already experienced better graphics, it hard to enjoy the older games as much even though you really enjoyed them when they came out. The consoles need to keep up with what the developers can create although just good graphics doesn't make a good game any more than a good video transfer makes for a good movie. Hope you won't worry about the analogy :)

Two things. First, I'd say that it doesn't matter if X-box sells more units than Sony. I'd guess that if Sony could sell 50% of the numbers the PS2 did it's first year, 25% of them with a BR drive, it would be a huge success. That's a lot more BR drives in consumer's hands rather than HD-dvd.

Secondly, regarding the X-box, it appears software will once again be lacking at launch anyway. Halo 3 will not make it until the day the PS3 comes out.

Okay, I assume you know the difference between video and film, right? Something doesn't need to be "filmed" in HD, because 35mm film captures far more detail than even HD DVDs will be capable of.

So yes, it most certainly WILL apply to almost all titles in your collection (with the exception of certain TV shows).

#1) Even though there are a couple of players compatible with WM9, they won't play the T2 disc or some of the other WM9 titles, because those discs require an internet connection to decrypt their Digital Rights Management. They are only playable on a computer.

#2) WM9 is a different format than DVD. This is not debatable. Just because there are a couple of DVD players that are compatible with WM9 does not make them the same format. That would be like saying that because your DVD player is compatible with CDs, that CDs and DVDs must be the same format. It's backwards-logic and it is incorrect.