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Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

Old 11-13-18, 03:42 PM
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

Originally Posted by IBJoel View Post
Hi guys, this was a discussion I had with our sales team and this is not the first time we've done ads for similar services. I basically came back from the weekend and this was already arranged. It's a rare occurrence and should not be construed as DVDTalk's or IB's endorsement of these products (the only reason I personally posted it is because we do not have Nativo ad capabilities on this site).
So, have the forum rules changed or not? If they have, the stale rules should be removed from the relevant sticky threads. If they haven't, the ad thread should be deleted immediately, don't you think?
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Old 11-13-18, 03:48 PM
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

This reminds me of the time when this site was cracking down on folks posting "adult" images (rather tame ones actually), meanwhile there were reviews of mature DVD titles complete with sexy cover art at the top of the page.
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Old 11-13-18, 04:58 PM
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
Problem is, this wasn't an add. An Admin made a sticky'd thread post basically trying to sell us the DVD Ripper. If it had been posted by a new member, it would have been flagged as spam and removed immediately.
It is clearly marked that this is a sponsored post within the copy. It was supposed to be a Nativo ad (which is a bit more obvious thread type), but we do not currently have that enabled and the client was told it would go up at a certain time. You can think of it as a press release (which are common on our other sites), if that helps. I agree that this was not the best means by which to do this, but it's not the first time a sponsored post has been made and it's going to be deleted when their campaign ends.

This does not mean that more threads about DVD Copying/Ripping software are permitted.
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Old 11-13-18, 05:04 PM
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

Originally Posted by kefrank View Post
So, have the forum rules changed or not? If they have, the stale rules should be removed from the relevant sticky threads. If they haven't, the ad thread should be deleted immediately, don't you think?
The forum rules have not changed and are subject to DVDTalk's discretion. Paid-for ads remain allowed.
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Old 11-13-18, 05:09 PM
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

Originally Posted by IBJoel View Post
The forum rules have not changed and are subject to DVDTalk's discretion. Paid-for ads remain allowed.
Can you elaborate on this? Why is a sponsor allowed to promote something that we will get banned for discussing? Is it merely because the sponsor provides IB income? If I send IB $50, can I start a thread to talk about DVD rippers?

Maybe I should word this another way. You said "Paid-for ads remain allowed." Are paid-for ads allowed for any product or does IB have standards for what products they will accept direct ad campaigns for? If IB does have standards, why does it not include rejecting ad campaigns for products that are strictly prohibited from discussion on the site?

Last edited by kefrank; 11-13-18 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 11-13-18, 07:36 PM
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

I’d give my left nut and some legal burn software if they could provide a fucking stable forum. I’m getting spam ads all over the place right now.
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Old 11-13-18, 07:48 PM
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

Originally Posted by kefrank View Post
Can you elaborate on this? Why is a sponsor allowed to promote something that we will get banned for discussing? Is it merely because the sponsor provides IB income? If I send IB $50, can I start a thread to talk about DVD rippers?

Maybe I should word this another way. You said "Paid-for ads remain allowed." Are paid-for ads allowed for any product or does IB have standards for what products they will accept direct ad campaigns for? If IB does have standards, why does it not include rejecting ad campaigns for products that are strictly prohibited from discussion on the site?
Short answer: $$$ It's what makes the world go around. You'd probably have to send in more than fifty bucks, but then again, maybe you're on to something, it might be a potential revenue stream for this place. How much money for a banned member to return? How much money to give your DVDTalk main rival the personal attack of their life?
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Old 11-13-18, 08:37 PM
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

FWIW, I'm seeing an advertisement for a hit-man service on the page right now. I'm debating on whether I should click it. (It gives you a 10% off coupon.) I've seen way cheaper murder-for-hire services on Onion sites.
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Old 11-13-18, 08:42 PM
  #34  
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

Originally Posted by Kurtie Dee View Post
FWIW, I'm seeing an advertisement for a hit-man service on the page right now. I'm debating on whether I should click it. (It gives you a 10% off coupon.) I've seen way cheaper murder-for-hire services on Onion sites.
Man... All I'm getting are Payless Shoes ads. I guess I'm not in the target market for a hitman...


...


Shit.

Maybe I'm the hitee!
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Old 11-13-18, 09:00 PM
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
Hopefully we can start sharing private torrent tracker invites soon!
Let's not do that here.
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Old 11-14-18, 09:27 AM
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

Originally Posted by kefrank View Post
Can you elaborate on this? Why is a sponsor allowed to promote something that we will get banned for discussing? Is it merely because the sponsor provides IB income? If I send IB $50, can I start a thread to talk about DVD rippers?

Maybe I should word this another way. You said "Paid-for ads remain allowed." Are paid-for ads allowed for any product or does IB have standards for what products they will accept direct ad campaigns for? If IB does have standards, why does it not include rejecting ad campaigns for products that are strictly prohibited from discussion on the site?
It's a couple orders of magnitude more than $50, but if you want to, yes I can put you in touch with our sales team.
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Old 11-14-18, 09:29 AM
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

Originally Posted by Kurtie Dee View Post
FWIW, I'm seeing an advertisement for a hit-man service on the page right now. I'm debating on whether I should click it. (It gives you a 10% off coupon.) I've seen way cheaper murder-for-hire services on Onion sites.
Some ads are context dependent and vary by user. Also, are you sure that's not for Hitman, the videogame? I've gotten ads for that on YouTube in my free time.

Last edited by IBJoel; 11-14-18 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 11-14-18, 09:30 AM
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

Originally Posted by IBJoel View Post
It's a couple orders of magnitude more than $50, but if you want to, yes I can put you in touch with our sales team.
Wait, so this is real? LMAO

Any of us can buy the ability to post about non-allowed topics to avoid being banned? Where does that end? Would enough money allow porn posts too? Should we expect to start seeing XXX adds on this site? This is a real question since I rely on this site to not have offensive material. If we start getting XXX adds, I'm out.
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Old 11-14-18, 09:46 AM
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
Wait, so this is real? LMAO

Any of us can buy the ability to post about non-allowed topics to avoid being banned? Where does that end? Would enough money allow porn posts too? Should we expect to start seeing XXX adds on this site? This is a real question since I rely on this site to not have offensive material. If we start getting XXX adds, I'm out.
No, NSFW stuff damages our Google Ranking, so those won't be coming any time soon. I can't imagine anything worse than what's in the front page reviews section.
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Old 11-14-18, 11:08 AM
  #40  
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

Originally Posted by Dan View Post
Man... All I'm getting are Payless Shoes ads. I guess I'm not in the target market for a hitman...


...


Shit.

Maybe I'm the hitee!
Apparently I've said too much already. However, for the cost of 10 Movies Anywhere codes, I'll let you live.
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Old 11-14-18, 11:30 AM
  #41  
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

Originally Posted by IBJoel View Post
It's a couple orders of magnitude more than $50, but if you want to, yes I can put you in touch with our sales team.
Just as a courtesy, would you be willing to answer these questions:
Are paid-for ads allowed for any product or does IB have standards for what products they will accept direct ad campaigns for?
If IB does have standards, why does it not include rejecting ad campaigns for products that are strictly prohibited from discussion on the site?

For example, can I buy a promotional post to sell physical copies of my fan edit of Star Wars? Or a bootleg BD of Lost Highway?

It would appear that the forum rules relating to content aren't actually forum rules relating to content, if an entity can pay the IB sales team to put targeted content specifically on this forum that breaks the forum rules. I would suggest the forum rules should be updated to provide the paid process by which we can circumvent the rule. Any objections from IB or the mods?

At this point, the "don't you dare say a word about this product, but please do buy it because we were paid to promote it" policy appears laughably absurd.
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Old 11-14-18, 12:10 PM
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
Since when is it forum practice to remove posts which break no forum rules because you don't personally agree with them?
If that happens I've been always been told you could post it at Forum Feedback.


- oh

wait.
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Old 11-14-18, 12:31 PM
  #43  
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

I think the thing that is sticking in people's craws about this is that long time members have been exposed to years of chastising and threats here over talking about "unauthorized copying" of DVDs and seeing such a blatant, DVD Talk approved ad for something that does just that is like a big "fuck you" to all of us that have tried to follow this rule over the past two decades or so. Just my opinion.
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Old 11-14-18, 01:17 PM
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

Noonan, "Ignoring or arguing with warning posts a moderator or administrator makes in a thread" is a rule. Please stay on topic and keep posts constructive. If you have serious questions, I am happy to answer them to the best of my ability, either in this thread or via PM.

Everyone should keep in mind that the Feedback thread is a little more "formal". Let's try to keep things problem-solution oriented.
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Old 11-14-18, 01:24 PM
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

Originally Posted by kefrank View Post
Just as a courtesy, would you be willing to answer these questions:

Are paid-for ads allowed for any product or does IB have standards for what products they will accept direct ad campaigns for?
Most products would be accepted, with the exception of illegal products and pornography. The reason this was accepted was because the product itself is not illegal, and essentially there's a "we're not responsible for what you do with this" thing in play.

If IB does have standards, why does it not include rejecting ad campaigns for products that are strictly prohibited from discussion on the site?

For example, can I buy a promotional post to sell physical copies of my fan edit of Star Wars? Or a bootleg BD of Lost Highway?
I don't have direct answers to those questions, because I am not on the sales team and the salesperson that handles this site is a remote worker.

It would appear that the forum rules relating to content aren't actually forum rules relating to content, if an entity can pay the IB sales team to put targeted content specifically on this forum that breaks the forum rules. I would suggest the forum rules should be updated to provide the paid process by which we can circumvent the rule. Any objections from IB or the mods?

At this point, the "don't you dare say a word about this product, but please do buy it because we were paid to promote it" policy appears laughably absurd.
"If you post advertising or promotions for your company or a company you work for or pose as a consumer discussing your product you will be charged for advertising on DVD Talk and hereby agree to pay in full and advertising fee for your posts up to $5,000." is the last line on the Rule page and has been there for some time.
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Old 11-14-18, 01:25 PM
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

This is to everyone here: I have voiced my concerns and your concerns to our sales team to try and figure something out. You are being heard.
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Old 11-14-18, 01:26 PM
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

Originally Posted by IBJoel View Post
Noonan, "Ignoring or arguing with warning posts a moderator or administrator makes in a thread" is a rule. Please stay on topic and keep posts constructive. If you have serious questions, I am happy to answer them to the best of my ability, either in this thread or via PM.

Everyone should keep in mind that the Feedback thread is a little more "formal". Let's try to keep things problem-solution oriented.
We have been trying to find a "solution" yet you keep curbing the discussion. As we stand now:

-We're not allowed to post threads or any comments regarding DVD Ripping Software
-However; if we pay IB enough money, we can?
-IB will continue to post adds for products which we will get banned for even mentioning in a forum post?

No disrespect but you've been avoiding every real question we've asked about how this forum is going to manage this going forward. I did not argue or ignore any of your posts; I merely provided my opinion which is absolutely allowed by forum rules. Deleting my posts with no warning or reason however, is not. I also did PM an Admin and have not yet heard back as to why my posts were deleted.


EDIT: YOU JUST DELETED A 3RD POST OF MINE BUT DIDN'T REALIZE IT WAS QUOTED FURTHER DOWN. GOOD JOB!!!!!!!

Please, explain to me what rules that post broke. I really want to know your explanation other that just being salty and abusing power.

Last edited by Noonan; 11-14-18 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 11-14-18, 01:46 PM
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

Originally Posted by IBJoel View Post
Most products would be accepted, with the exception of illegal products and pornography. The reason this was accepted was because the product itself is not illegal, and essentially there's a "we're not responsible for what you do with this" thing in play.
Thanks for providing some answers. Do you have a sense of why the "we're not responsible for what you do with this" thing isn't in play for discussions of such products by regular forum members? Maybe the rule should be relaxed so that discussions of such products can take place as long as illegal usage of them isn't discussed? As it stands now, my understanding is we can't even mention them.

I don't have direct answers to those questions, because I am not on the sales team and the salesperson that handles this site is a remote worker.
Fair enough. That said, I'd be curious to know if the sales team does have documented standards for what they'll accept.

"If you post advertising or promotions for your company or a company you work for or pose as a consumer discussing your product you will be charged for advertising on DVD Talk and hereby agree to pay in full and advertising fee for your posts up to $5,000." is the last line on the Rule page and has been there for some time.
To be clear, this does not cover what I was suggesting. That's just another rule that states forum members are not allowed to promote commercial products for their own gain without paying for the advertising.

What I'm suggesting is a clarification to the rules that goes something like this:
ABSOLUTELY NO (except for EXCEPTION cases below):
• Posting requests for copies of copyrighted material, or "how-to-get/make bootleg material" (including ripping) instructions.
• Anything that violates the trademark or copyright of another company including anything that may violate the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.

**EXCEPTIONS:
  • Contact the IB sales team at XXXX to inquire about posting promotional material for products that can make copies of copyrighted material or be used to violate the DMCA.
Originally Posted by IBJoel View Post
This is to everyone here: I have voiced my concerns and your concerns to our sales team to try and figure something out. You are being heard.
That's encouraging, thanks.
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Old 11-14-18, 01:56 PM
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

Originally Posted by IBJoel View Post
Most products would be accepted, with the exception of illegal products and pornography. The reason this was accepted was because the product itself is not illegal, and essentially there's a "we're not responsible for what you do with this" thing in play.
As the product in question cannot distinguish between educational and non educational purposes it is illegal as far as DMCA is concerned. The only ripping exemption is educational/library. Any other use is not covered by the DMCA exemption.

The 2 posts I referred to earlier regarding a competing product are still up by the way.
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Old 11-14-18, 01:57 PM
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Re: Wait, now we’re sponsoring DVD Rippers?

By that logic, lets start advertising for bump stocks and AR-15s! It's not the manufactures fault they're used for illegal activity.
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