Re: New Moderator SOP regarding Suspensions/Bannings/etc
 

Really?! I really have poor communication skills if you think that of me. I'm not trying to hold anyone down. I was merely making up one small example of how decisions should be thought through a bit and not made in knee jerk fashion.
Yes, as from day one of the tier being announced, "many more benefits are coming soon". ;)

Perhaps I'm sounding petty, but I really don't care about premium or avatars or the like. My main point is that it's knee jerk management ignoring the real problems.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

Same here, but suspensions and bans are still going to be done in secret.
Why can't they just strike through, or spoiler, or delete the offensive part of a post, and then leave a mod note explaining why that action was taken, instead of deleting entire posts?

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

I haven't had to moderate any posts in Video Game Talk because the posters are so sweet there, but if I do, this is the approach I'll take. It seems to be SOP in other forums as well. Now, there will be cases where an entire post may need to be deleted, like if its only content is an offensive image.

I can't speak for other mods or admins, but if I'm doing something that is angering people, I'd prefer to hear about it in PM first. Just like there's no reason for me to argue with MY WIFE in public when we can settle it one-on-one at home, we don't have to air all of our dirty laundry here.

With the new policies in place, you'll also have the ear of at least one other mod or admin. But if for some reason that isn't giving you satisfaction, I don't personally have a problem with the discussion going public. I've also instituted a "recall" method where the user base can revoke my mod privileges. Bear in mind that this applies to Groucho only.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

Personally my gut feeling is that you will be fine.

A little common sense will take you far I bet.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

Trevor has always been one of the strongest advocates for this site, and I believe his interests are in trying to make it survive and succeed, not in trying to make himself feel special.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

You're talking about Groucho's marriage I assume.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

That's one of the things I have always hated, secret bannings and the like. You see that someone is gone and look through their posting history and you see nothing bad. I would rather be able to see what happened and the reasons for the actions. It would be a benefit to the forum and its members. The secrecy thing only benefits those with something to hide.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

Amen! All that secrecy has always been the worst thing about DVDTalk moderation. Deleting should be a last resort.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

If only DVDTalk would adapt this for all moderators and administrators.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

-ptth- "anithrist", Trevor?

To clarify, certain posts from time to time may disappear from the sight of regular members as a result of mod/admin action. That does not necessarily mean that the posts were deleted. We have the facility to move posts (or even threads) to the moderator forum for discussion and this does happen regularly.

We can also move them to a moderator archive so that other mods can still view what we have moved without having the mod forum filled with oddments from elsewhere.

This may seem like a fine distinction but I think it is as relevant as the distinction between a BAN and a suspension.

Regarding "secret bannings", off the top of my head I think it is usually clear what has gone on if you look for it. If you can't find anything, there is a fair chance it is a returning banned member (RBM) who wasn't spotted at sign-up. Maybe you could PM me examples and I'll see what I can unearth...

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

As long as there are admins (or one to be more precise) that seemingly have the ability to take out grudges on posters they don't like, this site will continue to hemorrhage users. The new procedures sound great in theory, as this would hopefully allow a second set of eyes to put a stop to what is clearly an inappropriate use of the mod/admin powers. And let's be honest, everyone here is human, and sometimes lets the heat of the moment get the better of them.

Here is the problem though. All of that sounds great in theory. But not one single mod or admin overruled the suspension of two long term members that dared question the 'authoritah!' of an admin. So we already can see a flaw with this plan. Hell, everyone here knows what went down with both long-term members, and yet people still seem to be afraid to come right out and address the actual problem. Especially with the supsension of the second user and how he received a rude and threatening email. To be fair, Benedict (and a couple others), sort of addressed the issue by alluding to it and admitting that it seemed like an overreaction. But the admin in question hasn't come forward and said anything, that I am aware of.

It's sad, because I am just now reading the stories of several long term members who have been banned over the years. Strangely enough they all sound very similar. They seemed to irk a certain admin and they dared to question decisions.

I really do hope that the actual problem is eventually addressed...

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

That is the elephant in the room. I hope X addresses the question, and talks about whether he will make any changes.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

In the circumstances, while the current series of changes are underway, the moderating team considered that it would be more prudent and more productive to work to our strengths, thus some of us have been endeavouring to respond directly to the feedback while others are working hard behind the scenes.

In an earlier post I explained that we'd all be taking care to ensure that, going forwards, our messages and emails etc. were suitably respectful. It is a matter of some regret that some folk appear to be giving little or no credence to this undertaking. Less credence, it sometimes appears, than they are prepared to give to the tales of multiply warned &/or suspended &/or even BANNED members.

And it strikes me that there is an element of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" in play here which applies both in respect to what we have said about future interactions and to the other changes that we are putting in place.

My own observation of how people interact on the DVDTalk.com forums includes noting a tendency for particular groups either to pile in and make unfriendly posts towards a particular individual who is in the spotlight or to subject them to what amounts to death by a thousand cuts.

It may seem clichéd but... actions DO often speak louder than words: if people generally actually don't believe that there will be the respectful approach and that the SOP will not be adhered to, I am not sure why any one person coming in and posting an apology at this point would make much difference. Whatever was said could be attacked as insufficient, insincere or, and here's the irony, "too late".

The other elephant in the room that exercises my mind equally or more so is that we do face the continuing issue of people who really don't like to be constrained by community rules. This has been the case since before I was a moderator, has persisted throughout the time I have been on the team and, I am sorry to say, doubtless will continue when I'm gone. IBobi's sticky/locked post atop this forum was not composed in a vacuum.

So, as well as ensuring that we have sufficient volunteers to do the job and that they have the appropriate guidelines within in which to operate, we also need to have some confidence that the folk here are prepared to accept that we will from time to time encounter awkward members whose take on how things work differs considerably from "regular" ones. I really do hope that the sizeable majority of people reading this and posting here trust us to work towards finishing the job of putting things on a proper footing.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

Customers? :whofart:


Let it go people, no need to persecute anyone.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

You really need someone on the mod/admin team who has some experience in PR and let them do your talking for you, because when people are up in arms about how things are being done and you come in here trying to paint yourself as a misunderstood victim, it makes people think you don't get it.

If people are giving credence to Tarantino's side of the story over X, that says a lot about how much faith the community has in X. Instead of whining about it, maybe you should consider that X is a liability to your team.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

I do not disagree that with at least a few people you can not win. I do not think a majority feel that way either.

I do think that many are concerned that this is a change to try and get everything to blow over while in the end nothing will change long term.

I hope that this is not true.

My hope is that if another similar incident happens again that the Mods/Admins will take a more active role in the future if they see things happening behind the scenes they disagree with.

A lot of what happens the general members do not see so many of you will know before we would if this turns out to be window dressing.

If so please stand up and say no.

You are really our first line of defense to preserve this community. If you do not think things are going in a positive direction do not just let it happen silently.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

I don't know if its just me that got the wrong impression from your post, but it sounds like you just shifted all the blame to the DVDTalk community for the following:

1) believing the word of other members and not the administration staff
2) that we will dislike any change DVDTalk makes, regardless
3) we're just grouping up and attacking a poor, innocent administrator doing his job
4) we won't believe an apology anyway
5) people are troublemakers no matter what rules are in place
6) we don't trust you

I hate to be a complainer, and I appreciate many of the responses so far and the new rules and moderators, but it's hard to trust the staff even with the changes when there's a refusal to admit fault with one of the staff and knowing that he can still be involved in handing down administrative decisions.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

I think this is the biggest reason why many think in the end nothing will change.


I also think this is a huge issue going forward if another incident happens since all someone has to do is say a certain person treated me badly and people will likely believe them.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

I don't think it's ever too late to say an apology and to those that it matters will greatly appreciate it. If people don't except it then it's on them.

And you do have a vocal group here who don't want any constraints. Some seem to only come around to cause trouble, something I just don't understand but it's been like that for a long time and is firmly entrenched. You do have an issue here and my sympathy. With that, I believe most just want to see positive change and a sincere apology to those that deserve one is a great first step.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

fumanstan I am very sorry that my post could have been interpreted in such an extremely prejudicial way.

It was not my intent and I think that it would be better for me to refrain from further contributions to this discussion as, even when I believe that I have chosen my words carefully, they are clearly still open to misunderstanding.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

I think many good changes were implemented recently, the most important being to set the right tone for interactions between users, and between users and moderators/administrators.

That said, I think it would be good to hear from X his perspective of things since most of the "issues" involved him, fairly or not. He has been quiet on this topic, and while I think you and others have done a good job managing the site in the past few weeks, there are things that only X can speak to. I hope he does.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

I understand the concerns to not want to make things worse.

However, to stop participating in a thread like this when you feel you are being misunderstood I think would not be the correct way to go.

We need to keep lines of communications open in my opinion.

In the end it is your choice. I hope if you see something you want to comment on you will still do so.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

How hard is it to understand that sometimes a simple apology is the best solution to a problem. Whether people would be satisfied or not is besides the point. It's the right thing to do when you've wronged someone. Period. The ego centric approach to this is the very root of the problem here. Set your egos aside for a moment and do what is best for the website, regardless of who says what about your apology.

My understanding is that X is very dedicated to this website and works a ton behind the scenes. I don't doubt this at all. Of course this would lead me to believe he must care a lot about this website and it's future. If this is true, wouldn't he want to do what is best for ensuring the survival of the website? If apologizing and making it clear that things will be handled differently in the future by him will stop the bleeding and start the healing, then what is the hold up? Ego? Stubbornness? Seriously, it doesn't seem that complicated to me.

And to your other point. I'm sorry, when I hear from enough users, who don't know each other, describe the same situation repeatedly, the problem is most likely not with them. Sure there are always three sides to a story. But sticking your head in the sand and pretending that all is okay, when people are clearly telling you it is not okay, doesn't seem to be working. Which mod stood up to X when he clearly overreacted against minor threat? None that I recall. Why would that be any different now? Why was there no admission that it was a mistake?

These questions and their answers (or lack of in some cases) are why people are saying the problem has not been addressed yet. Just to be clear, I have never had any problems with any admins or mods on this board. Hell, I'm a borderline lurker. But I really enjoy this site, and I don't really feel like sitting around and watching it die off. If it does, it won't be because the customers didn't try and help out.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

If I was a better communicator, I'd say just about everything Dave has been saying. Can he be a mod?

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

I'll throw my two cents in. I've never had a problem with any mods or admins here, but then again I don't post on a forum to stir up drama or get into petty arguments. Now that this whole debacle has been going on for a few weeks, frankly I'm glad one specific element may never post here again, because it's clear from postings elsewhere, said person appears to want to see the whole site fail.

The forum is much more than Other, which I find ok, but other times find embarrassing. I frankly come here for the conversation in the other areas and the bottom line is, in every large forum community it's probably expected that some users will latch onto drama and want to continue to escalate it well past its expiration date. Hopefully it never again gets out of hand to the level it did this time.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

:thumbsup:

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

Thanks Trevor, I appreciate it!

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

I hope i'm not driving you away completely, especially since you're one of the only staff members actively communicating with us.

I guess I'd prefer that rather then trying to choose your words carefully, just be blunt and direct about it.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

Any updates on whether or not the former owner of this forum has been banned? It seems that telling the customers one thing, while doing another is not in the spirit of the supposed changes that are being made around here.

Either way, a little honesty and less treating us like we're stupid could go a long way...

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

Something not always appreciated by all is that there are various elements of the running of this site that are pretty much entirely the province of IB. I believe that the relations between current and former owners are one of those areas. If you wish to express your interest in the matter, I think that a PM to IBobi is the way to go.

I cannot guarantee whether you will receive a response. However, and with the utmost respect, dave-o, I would suggest that any direct request for an update from IB couched in terms that pour scorn on the efforts and the integrity either of the current moderation team - or of the company on whose servers the messages you read and write are hosted - might meet with what the spin doctors refer to as a sub-optimal response.

Just my two pennies.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

So, when I was suspended I e-mailed to ask why and never did receive a response. Admittedly, it was some years ago now, but now I keep seeing in this thread that one may e-mail and ask about why - is there any promise that we will be answered. I also e-mailed and asked why all links to my website http:// were absolutely banned. When I hit the enter key my website name will disappear. I posted several images which were relevant to threads and a couple of times I made the mistake of asking people to comment about a change to my website. Is that a reason to make it so that no links to my website images will work. I have a separate folder for images which I posted which is still there on my website and it's named "DVDTalkImages". Maybe a mod can take a look there and see that those images are not offensive and that they were actually helpful to the threads that they were posted for. Wonder if a mod will read this and tell me anything?

See, told you that the website name would disappear when I hit the enter key! It did!

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

danwiz, please read the SOP in the sticky. That confirms that suspendees henceforth will always be emailed and explains the appeal process.

By the way, I believe that nearly three years ago you were asked to stop what was regarded as by mods and various members as repeated spamming of your own website.

I would imagine that the automatic censorship of your site was implemented because of your repeated circumvention of the rules as I believe they were then set out. A new version of these particular rules remains under discussion with IB and should be published before too much longer.

So, for the avoidance of doubt, are you now saying now that you did not receive any of the warnings. Or that you received some or all of them but simply misunderstood? For illustrative purposes, I will quote below the following message that I sent to you on or around 22 September 2010:The record shows that - after a slight hiatus - posting privileges were returned early November at which time you contacted the team and included a promise not to mention your domain again...

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

How about requiring mods to post the reason for closing a thread? The music forum thread was closed in MusicTalk without comment. That's annoying.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

We all find certain things annoying, CRM114, but I am not sure that you are being reasonable in citing this because, if you are referring to the thread here, your above post and my in-thread comment bear exactly the same time stamp.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

I see a comment by you buried in someone else's post, not as the final posting in the thread. If it was the last comment in the thread (logical) it wouldn't require comparing time stamps. But thanks for the snark.

And DVDTalk's core business now is Music talk? Discussing other music sites is off limits? How ridiculous - not that I was involved in the discussion.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

le sigh

Damned if you do...
 

<strike>As this appears to be a repeated instance of a member attempting to dictate precisely how a moderator should carry out his duties and the time-frame in which these duties should be undertaken, I am recusing myself and referring any further response to IB and mods not having had prior involvement with said member</strike>.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

Oh please.

It was just a suggestion. You appeared to want to appear orderly and transparent. My suggestion was a way to achieve that.

I don't know what prior involvement you are speaking about but I have no problem with you. It appears you do, however, have a problem with me. If you don't want to interact with members and suggestions, close this thread.

Re: Address MOD Questions....?
 

I think this is a fair expectation to have a comment as to why a thread was closed. If you don't see comments, let me or one of the other mods know and we will either correct it in thread or let you know why the thread was closed.