Unsuspend Spoon
 

He was actually contributing valuable first hand information to the VT shooting threads about the initial University response. If someone really gets offended by someone on an internet forum calling him a dipshit he's got bigger problems to deal with. Would it have made a difference if Spoon's relatives were members of this board when they were called "bumfuck police" by the person who Spoon was responding to?

Not to mention by the time he got suspended everything had settled.

That's usually when mod action takes place. After the problem is settled. None the less he attacked two members and called them names. Which is against forum rules.

I was out traveling all day and just checked my emails. He certainly deserved suspension for his insulting personal attacks.

I don't see why that should be the case.

Think about how often insults may be thrown around at employees of a particular company or store, people working in a certain profession, relatives of someone dying in a tragic accident, members of a certain religion, etc.

A lot of the regular members have formed some thick skin and try their best to ignore such insults to be able to still post here.

Many of the insults may be cruel or tasteless, but the rule is that one cannot attack another member. The rule is there to maintain a civil discussion.

I agree. Unsuspend and ban.

One of the great things about this forum is the fact that members who insult other members are dealt with quickly. If members are hurling obscenities and abuse at each other freely, than nothing gets discussed.

It's a shame he was suspended because he was providing first hand accounts of the crime scene, but he lost his cool. His reaction was completely understandable given the circumstances, but perhaps it's better for all that he takes a little break to allow himself to breathe.

Somebody indirectly insulted his brother in law. He responded with an insult for that person. They reported the post, and only he gets suspended? Not to mention the fact that he's added far, far much more viable information to that thread than the other party involved in the conflict.

Unfair situation, if you ask me.

His brother in law isn't a member here, and like you say it was an indirect insult.

Hardly warranting a suspension of that person, and it doesn't justify the personal attacks from Spoon.

It's like someone bashing Bush, someone making a personal attack on them and then getting suspended. Bashing Bush is fine as he's not a member, but it's not fine to make a personal attack in response to the comment.

My cousin is a cop in Portland but that doesn't mean that nobody on this board should be allowed to insult the Portland police as a group. If the insult was made directly at Spoon's brother-in-law then I might see your point. Even then I would say only if the insult was made explicitly because the guy was Spoon's brother-in-law; if he was just singling out a guy because he was on the news or something then I would say that's fair game.

Personal attacks? He called one person a dipshit, and as has been stated that person indirectly insulted his family members. I don't know about you guys, but me and my friends call each other far worse on a daily basis, that doesn't mean I go running home to cry to mommy everytime someone calls me a name. There are far worse things to worry about.

Just like everyone else here, I enjoy reading this forum daily as it tends to be the best source of information for a hobby we all have in common. I have always found the "personal attack" policy here a little too strict, especially in the "other" and "politics" subforums where the topics at hand generally require a little more heated debate than a topic about which version of The Evil Dead is the best. Obviously there are certain terms that shouldnt be used nor should we let things escalate to a point where two members are going back and forth in a way that takes focus away from the topic at hand. However there are times where people need to grow up a little and realize that there are far worse things in life than someone calling someone else a name on an internet message board. I mean, I learned how to ignore this stuff in third grade, and that was back before anonymous internet boards when people actually said it to my face.

As for the situation at hand, by the time he got suspended the two had pretty much made peace over the debate, isn't that what we should be going for instead of silencing one side and letting the other one continue?

No, a general statement was made about the police dept. Spoon decided to take it personally and start shooting obscenities at a poster (and this was his first "contribution" to the thread). That we don't allow here.

Obscenity, and if obscene words are so bad, why did DVDTalk remove the filters on them several years ago?

Obscene words are allowed in certain contexts. Using them as insults against another poster is not one of the acceptable contexts and that is very clearly stated in the rules.

And there are plenty of more lax forums out there that you are welcome to frequent.

I have been posting here for almost 8 years precisely because it is one of the most tightly moderated sites on the net (without limiting the topics that can be discussed) and one can have relatively insult/flame free discussions even about heated topics here.

Okay. I think I'm lost but let me see if I've got this right...

So we can insult certain persons.
But we can't insult a member of this board.
But we can insult somebody who is related to a member of these forums.
But we can only do so if we aren't aware that they're related to that person. If we know they're related to a person who is a member of these forums, then we can't insult them.
But if they're a member of a large organization, like a police force, then we can still insult the collective members of the force that the sibling belongs to.
But not if we know that the sibling belongs to the force...unless the insult is actually for the entire force, and not just the sibling of the member?

I think?

And if it's indirect it just doesn't count at all? ..or it only counts a little, but not enough to be a big deal? Or I mean, damn, I'm so not following...

But we most certainly, definitely, can't call somebody a dipshit...even if they call our brother in law a bumfuck, but they didn't know the guy was our brother in law when they called him a bumfuck.

Right?

Oh my...this is all so dumbfounding. But not dumb as in stupid. Not that anybody here is stupid...unless they know that I don't know that their step brother is not a member of the Portland Tech Univer...

:suicide:

Again, the post that set Spoon off didn't say "Hey Spoon, your relative is a bumfuck." It was directed at the way the police were handling the situation. Perhaps it was misinformed, but it wasn't searching out Spoon and attacking his relatives. No one even knew the relationship between Spoon and the police force until AFTER Spoon started personally attacking a poster. If it had been common knowledge that Spoon knew a cop in that police force and people were hurling attacks against his relative, that's another story.

For example, suppose there was a thread about realtors and right after kvrdave (a known realtor) posts something, someone says, "You fucking realtors are all bumfucks." Then you might have a case, but no one even knew there was any relationship.

I'm sure we have people involved in all sorts of businesses, industries and other entities. If we say that posting something derogatory towards an industry or company is a personal attack, then we might as well close the forum down because I'm sure there is some member who has some connection to said industry or company.

I really don't think it is as complicated as you are making it out to be, NatrlBornThrllr. The wording and spirit of the rule seems pretty clear.

I can't see any way of interpreting that to mean an attack against an entire organization for their handling of a major national news story is an attack on an individual member here. Calling a poster here a dipshit quite clearly falls into the personal attack category.

If only we had a "No Holds Barred" forum, this whole thing could have been averted. :(

Don't start you. :lol:

You're wasting your time with all this. As much as I agree with you, I can definitely say you're wasting your time.

I know, but I still wanted to state my point of view and hopefully get the support of some others on the forum as well. I just see it as being insanely petty to qualify one person calling another a dipshit as a personal attack. I view a personal attack as one that refers to anothers race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. I mean, someone on this forum can call me a cum guzzling sheep fucker and I'm not going to give a shit. I understand that other peoples skin might not be as thick as mine, but it just bothers me the way that people have to be so damn concerned about everything they type because of the way "personal attacks" are defined on this forum. I see disclaimers all the time where people have to clarify something they wrote as not being anything personal against the person they were replying to. If someone posts something incredibly stupid like 2+2=5, I should be able to tell them that they're an idiot in as many words. I shouldn't have to carefully watch my language and have some long drawn out explanation about why they are wrong. I mean people get warnings over threadcrapping but someone says something just barely out of line to another user and they immediately get suspended. I just feel that if we are able to use adult language on the forum, we should all be able to act like adults and not have a need for someone to mediate name calling like we were back in elementary school. I just see this particular situation as the perfect example of why this policy should be eased up a little. The offending poster was initially upset and rightfully so and lashed out accordingly. The two posters then exchanged posts in an adult manner and the situation solved itself. This event is one that we will all remember for the rest of our lives and Spoon, in his handful of posts, gave first hand information that was probably the most useful and reliable of anything posted in the now 28 page thread.

As much as I think it's just words and what Spoon said was no big deal, it's only fair. A few months ago, someone called me a racist because I think cutting the heads off of people who don't follow your religion is wrong. I called them a "dickhead". I got suspended. And the other guy got nothing. Completely and totally not fair. We need equal punishment for breaking the rules.

Sad but true.

I think the distinction is clear.

For instance, its ok to say defense attorney's are worthless pieces of shit.

It's not ok to find out a member is a defense attorney and they post "you're a worthless piece if shit like all defense attorneys."

One is attacking a group of people (a profession) one is directly attacking a member here.

In this case a member said the bumfuck police in Blacksburg fucked up the situation. That's an attack on a police department, not on anyone in particular (not aimed at Spoon's brother in law or any particular officer) and cleared not aimed at any forum member.

It also seems like illogical arguments here too. Some of you want more freedom for personal attacks, but at the same time are want Spoon unsuspended for not being able to shrug off a perceived attack on his brother in law. Clearly someone with that thin of skin wouldn't last a second in a forum where direct personal attacks were permitted.

Yeah uh, thanks for the summary there, but I'm sure I got it all sorted out in post number 16. It seems sarcasm isn't your forte, and consequently this thread is turning into a game of red-light, green-light.

Bottom line: one guy struck a nerve with another guy, and he was called a dipshit. Because of that, we miss out on all sorts of valuable first-hand information from somebody who actually knows what in the fuck they're talking about (something that thread could use more of, mind you). All stemming from the comments of somebody who, well, doesn't know what in the fuck they're talking about.

So, so petty and unnecessary. But whatever.

Shhhhh stop arguing with the deputy mod!

You've already been reported, we can't have any name calling ;)

What's that shorty? I can't here you from up here. ;)

*Ahem*

ABSOLUTELY NO:
• Posting of personal attacks against another member, moderator or administrator in the forum

Consider this a warning before you get reported.

Meh, there's a difference between personal attacks and good natured ribbing/banter and the mods here are pretty damn good at telling the difference.

So report away if you must. :D

That's right. You'd know, since you are an esteemed member of the moderator group here....Oh wait.

Give me a break, you don't have to be a moderator to understand what they allow and disallow.

I've been posting here for nearly 8 years and suspended a handful of times my first few yeras. So I've learned the ins and outs of what is and isn't acceptable pretty damn well.

So knock off the mod shit. Go play on the island or something.

Yes. You don't need to be a mod to know the ins and outs. That's why you seem to have over 640 posts here in the Feedback forum. :lol:

Damn, we both have too much time on our hands. You to look that up and me to have posted that much. :lol:

But to be fair, the majority of my posting in feedback over the years has been bitching about annoying ad campaigns (see the HD-DVD ad thread), threads discussion changes/additions to the forum (campaigning for Movie talk to be separate from DVD talk, getting a politics forum, debating need for other sub forums etc.) rather than threads like this that are debates over how the rules should be enforced.

Though I still don't get the gripe for the latter. Part of the point of the feedback forum is for members to discuss rules etc. And that's this thread with some members bitching about how the personal attack rules, and me and others explaining why we like how they work and why we feel this decision was within the bounds of the rules.

That's not being a "mini-mod" it's using the feedback forum for what it's here for. Expressing my concerns on topics in effort to help influence the forums development in the ways I and others posting here hope it develops. :shrug:

I like that the rules are strict on blatant personal attacks yet still allow for some playful banter like my joking comment to Scorcho, and will always post that I like it that way in these types of threads as I want it to stay that way. I spend way to much time here (26,000 posts and counting) so I do what I can to give input and keep the forum environment as much to my liking as possible. :shrug:

In a related note, I've seen people on different forums wondering when someone would register with the user name "Richard McBeef". I would imagine disabling that name along with Mr. Brownstone (although it is a Guns and Roses song too) might be a good idea.

We're "bitching" and you're "explaining." I see. Well fuck me running, I guess I owe you some thanks for all of your, erm, help.

:lol:

Well said.

I honestly always thought you were a mod given your constant posts enforcing the DVD Talk rules in every relevant thread. Now I see that you're not. I feel dumb. :lol: