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The banning o' Blitz6speed and its repercussions on the HD Talk Forum
Originally Posted by namja
Yup, we may very well close this thread if people can't be civil towards both formats. I'd rather have a thread closed than people banned. Yes, I'm keeping a closer eye on this thread because of a recent ban, which was only PARTLY his fault and PARTLY the fault of those egging him on.
Did we make some choo-choo comments? Sure. But we've said worse to art, who AFAIK, is still around. Edit: I just went and re-read Blitz's full post. It was in response to a debate Jay has been having with several members on the board about the PS3. That whole debate has been nothing but civil, with good points brought up on both sides. No one had said anything insulting to Jay, nor had Jay said anything insulting about any other member. A purely intellectual debate. Then, out of the blue, without even being addressed, Blitz makes a personal attack on me. Could you argue that all of our anti-BD comments drove him to it? Maybe. But that's a pretty slippery slope, if you ask me. I don't go around attacking people who like movies I dislike, or music I dislike, or video games I dislike. Blitz is definitely responsible for his own banning. He knew the forum rules and willfully broke them, on a member who wouldn't even read the comment. |
Suprmallet, we let a lot of things go for the past few months. We gave so much leeway that people actually began to think that bashing Sony was okay, or that chiming into every BD thread to comment on the failures of Sony/BD was acceptable, or that there's nothing wrong with flamebaiting.
Anyway, I'll discuss with the other moderators and give you a response. It may take a few days, so please bear with me. namja Moderator, DVD Talk Forums |
I can't say I agree with Blitz's banishment for the simple fact that people make mistakes, but I will say that his comments in general were no different then digifreak and while I don't know what was exactly said by Blitz I can't agree just because he could have been egged on and at the same times was egging on with some of his statements like "choo choo" and so on.
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What he said was a personal attack against me, and I had him on ignore, so I was not egging him on. He deserved his banning.
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Absolutely. Blitz went from debating the formats and started attacking people. I also think you've got it a bit reversed, Namja. Blitz was the first to interject into any HD discussion and derail the thread. His "choo choo" comments were flamebait, pure and simple.
As for the inevitable comparison to DFNYC, I can't recall him making any personal attacks. If I were an BD supporter, I would hold up a guy like Jay G as a good example of a fellow BD supporter, not Blitz. The same holds true on the other side. There are a few HD-DVD supporters who I would not to be associated with, were I backing that format. Level headed and openminded is good, fanboy is not. The idea that people "egged" Blitz on is insane. His entire MO was trolling. |
And not just on this forum, either. His incessant "Nobody wants the Wii because it's just a souped-up Gamecube!" and "Nintendo is slapping me in the face by releasing Zelda on the Wii!" were just obnoxious.
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Wow, I completely missed that Blitz got banned. It is a shame if went personal because his Choo Choo line was becoming a DVDTalk classic.
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
If I were an BD supporter, I would hold up a guy like Jay G as a good example of a fellow BD supporter, not Blitz. The same holds true on the other side. There are a few HD-DVD supporters who I would not to be associated with, were I backing that format. Level headed and openminded is good, fanboy is not.
Originally Posted by namja
We gave so much leeway that people actually began to think that bashing Sony was okay.
The future of Blu-Ray definitely seems to be rosier and it would be unthinkably ignorant to write off the format as it is now. Nobody sane thinks that the format was is over right now and Blu-Ray has lost. But to deny people to give opinions about a format, or a company, or a poorly written article, seems to be asinine. It's not my board, so I don't make the rules, and I'll follow whatever decision you want to make, but if no criticism is allowed, you might as well close down this thread. Unlike most video game discussion threads, this one actually had a very low signal-to-noise ratio. For every two fanboy posts we had one or two well written intelligent replies, and it would be a shame to throw out the DVD with the bathwater, so to speak. |
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
Absolutely. Blitz went from debating the formats and started attacking people. I also think you've got it a bit reversed, Namja. Blitz was the first to interject into any HD discussion and derail the thread. His "choo choo" comments were flamebait, pure and simple.
As for the inevitable comparison to DFNYC, I can't recall him making any personal attacks. If I were an BD supporter, I would hold up a guy like Jay G as a good example of a fellow BD supporter, not Blitz. The same holds true on the other side. There are a few HD-DVD supporters who I would not to be associated with, were I backing that format. Level headed and openminded is good, fanboy is not. The idea that people "egged" Blitz on is insane. His entire MO was trolling. |
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
I agree 1000000% Blitz started alot of this crap and he derailed plenty of discussion. Good riddance.
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:lol: @ flashburn for slamming Blitz while having "Choo Choo" in his sig.
:mad: @ flashburn for using my 2012 |
Originally Posted by Suprmallet
And not just on this forum, either. His incessant "Nobody wants the Wii because it's just a souped-up Gamecube!" and "Nintendo is slapping me in the face by releasing Zelda on the Wii!" were just obnoxious.
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
:lol: @ flashburn for slamming Blitz while having "Choo Choo" in his sig.
:mad: @ flashburn for using my 2012 Time to derail the thread! Choo Choo! I've been using 2012 for like 5 years, however I don't know what I am going to change it to once 2012 comes around! Oh, and its my 2012! |
I'd absolutely LOVE for someone to explain the Blitz/DFNYC comparison. I consistantly report actual NEWS to this forum whereas Blitz just posted things to incite a response. There is certainly nothing "blind" about my posts. I'm definitely a fan of HD DVD but were they to screw up as badly as Sony/BD, I'd be right there criticizing them as well. They just haven't...thus far.
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This thread should be closed. Unless we're allowed to discuss banned members now.
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Originally Posted by bwvanh114
This thread should be closed.
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Okay then, thanks for the clarification.
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Blitz was absolutely wrong for the shot against Suprmallet, but he was constantly being egged on. The post he made about the Tears of the Sun review is a perfect example. He simply posts the link link to a review, posts an excerpt, and gives the mandatory Choo Choo. Nothing else. The Choo Choo thing, I think, has become a big joke to everyone on the forum. Bllitz included. He put it in to make everyone laugh. After his post, the whole thread goes to crap. Literally. Every post after that was a thread crap, and really should be deleted. Noone discussed the review. It was all, Sony sucks, 1 disc... wow, one review and Blitz goes crazy, and even one of our moderators decided to take a shot:
Adam Tyner DVD Talk Reviewer/ Moderator Originally Posted by Blitz6Speed Rivals anything HD-DVD has to offer Wow! It's just as good as HD DVD and for only $500 more! What does this say about Sony's earlier work -- that they just didn't care enough to do better? I couldn't make it to the second page, far too many bull shit replies. He only replied once in his own thread, and that was to defend himself from the thread craps. He was wrong, but he has been provoked by many on this board including freak. Suprmallet, I don't know how the ignore post thing works, but how could you respond to a thread started by Blitz if he was on your ignore list? Just asking. I say reinstate him after two weeks and keep him on a short leash. He was wrong, but does not deserve to be banned for life. |
The format warring is out of control in the HD forum. One thing I've noticed: since console-bashing is forbidden in the VG forum, folks who want to bash a particular console go to the HD forum instead.
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Originally Posted by Groucho
The format warring is out of control in the HD forum. One thing I've noticed: since console-bashing is forbidden in the VG forum, folks who want to bash a particular console go to the HD forum instead.
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Originally Posted by The Cow
Agree 100%. HD forum is how the VG forum use to be.
I agree. It's just like the VG forum was in 2001 during the GC and X-box launch, along with the PS2 2nd gen stuff. It needs a zero tolerance for bashing policy just like the VG forum. People can post cons, express opinions. But no outright bashing, flamebaiting, trolling, threadcrapping etc. The forum is unbearable. I like to try to keep up on HD stuff as I want to make the leap in the hopefully near future, but the forum is useless for that purpose now as the fanboy bickering ruins it. |
Originally Posted by Bcolon
Blitz was absolutely wrong for the shot against Suprmallet, but he was constantly being egged on. The post he made about the Tears of the Sun review is a perfect example. He simply posts the link link to a review, posts an excerpt, and gives the mandatory Choo Choo. Nothing else. The Choo Choo thing, I think, has become a big joke to everyone on the forum. Bllitz included. He put it in to make everyone laugh. After his post, the whole thread goes to crap. Literally. Every post after that was a thread crap, and really should be deleted. Noone discussed the review. It was all, Sony sucks, 1 disc... wow, one review and Blitz goes crazy, and even one of our moderators decided to take a shot:
Adam Tyner DVD Talk Reviewer/ Moderator Originally Posted by Blitz6Speed Rivals anything HD-DVD has to offer Wow! It's just as good as HD DVD and for only $500 more! What does this say about Sony's earlier work -- that they just didn't care enough to do better? I couldn't make it to the second page, far too many bull shit replies. He only replied once in his own thread, and that was to defend himself from the thread craps. He was wrong, but he has been provoked by many on this board including freak. Suprmallet, I don't know how the ignore post thing works, but how could you respond to a thread started by Blitz if he was on your ignore list? Just asking. I say reinstate him after two weeks and keep him on a short leash. He was wrong, but does not deserve to be banned for life. The way ignore works is when someone makes a post, you see a small placeholder that says "You cannot read this post because User X is on your ignore list. Click here to take this user off your ignore list." So I can certainly post in his threads, I just can't read what he said. I didn't know he had attacked me until Adam quoted it. By that point, he was already banned. Do we need sweeping reform in the forum? As someone said, it could be akin to the VG forum, where valid criticisms and concerns can be posted, but posts saying "Your format sucks and mine rules!" should obviously be left out. That being said, as Josh Hinkle mentioned, Blitz was suspended for not adhering to the VG Forum rules, so I don't see why we would expect him to adhere to the HD Forum rules. His posts would get so bad that I got into fights with him here and on AVS simultaneously, and put him on ignore on both sites. Had I not put him on ignore, I'd be the banned one right now. So I think his banning was a good thing, should remain in effect, but should stand as a lesson to all posters in the HD Forum. No format is worth getting banned over. |
Originally Posted by Bcolon
even one of our moderators decided to take a shot:
You can't assume that blitz6speed would've been a saint if not for the other posters in HD Talk. He engaged in this same sort of obnoxiousness on the Video Games forum, and he spouts off the same sort of junk on other message boards having nothing to do with DVD Talk as well: LOL, take it easy on the HD-DVD Fanatics. They live in a dreamland that blocks out all things happening in november/december. They also ignore HD-DVD's new slogan, SHORT LIVED. Catchy isnt it! PS3. Now be-gone you hd-dvd heathen! YOU.. SHALL NOT.. PASS!!!!!!!!! With that out of the way, you think studios really want to miss out on the HUGE HUGE HUGE PS3 market? Those are ALL potential customers for their films. Seriously, if you fail to see how big the ps3 launch is to not only sony, but Blu-Ray as a whole, i have to wonder where part of your body you are sniffing cocaine through. I'm perfectly fine with having a "no format bashing" rule. One of the things I enjoyed so much about DVD Talk's HD forum in its early days was the lack of this sort of vitriol, and no one would be happier than me to see it return to that. (For what it's worth, I have every intention of buying a Blu-ray player as soon as more capable hardware and a variety of compelling software are available. I couldn't care less who wins the format war because I'll be able to play discs from either camp.) |
Originally Posted by The Bus
I know there's a line between Sony bashing and Sony criticism but this is one of those companies that deserves to be criticized, as their mistakes are many, across the board. Were this another board, I might suggest that Sony bashing is "against the rules" because some Sony ad campaign might be started, but I know Geoff doesn't run his site this way and the suggestion is preposterous. But Blu-Ray, up until this point has been exceedingly deserving of any criticism. It sucks, plain and simple. More expensive hardware, less movies, less storage, worse quality, etc.
The future of Blu-Ray definitely seems to be rosier and it would be unthinkably ignorant to write off the format as it is now. Nobody sane thinks that the format was is over right now and Blu-Ray has lost. But to deny people to give opinions about a format, or a company, or a poorly written article, seems to be asinine. It's not my board, so I don't make the rules, and I'll follow whatever decision you want to make, but if no criticism is allowed, you might as well close down this thread. Unlike most video game discussion threads, this one actually had a very low signal-to-noise ratio. For every two fanboy posts we had one or two well written intelligent replies, and it would be a shame to throw out the DVD with the bathwater, so to speak. Furthermore, if the main purpose of a post is to mock another format, then that is strongly discouraged. Whenever someone posts something good about Format A, then we can count on certain supporters of Format B to enter that thread and make a snide comment about Format A. Perhaps it's just a :lol: or a sarcastic one-liner. A single post in itself may not violate specific DVD Talk rules, but repeated mockery of a format or constant badgering of a format constitutes threadcraps and/or flamebaits, and they will not be tolerated. The problem at HD Talk Forum has not been so bad, but it's going down the path of the VG Talk Forum. And VG Talk Forum was, at times, really ugly. We even asked certain members not to enter threads that didn't deal with the console of their choice (for example, asking PS2 fans to not enter XBox or GC threads). The main reasons why the problem was so much worse in the VG Talk Forum were: (1) the video game consoles sold by the hundreds of thousands at launch, and (2) because of that, we had a lot more people participating in the discussions. With more people participating, there is a higher probability of someone throwing the first stone, and when one stone is thrown, there is an exponentially higher probability of someone throwing a stone back. Back to people taking offense at your post. Your post above may or may not incite anything at the present. But when we have hundreds more that are actively participating in the HD Talk Forum, someone's gonna bite and say something nasty about HD DVD, and there will be retaliations to that, and it will get ugly. In the VG Talk Forum, we've had fights started by comments that were a lot tamer. We've had dozens of suspensions and bans. I certainly don't want to see that happen at HD Talk Forum, i.e. I like you guys and don't want to see anyone get suspended or banned. Anyway, I will discuss this with Adam and the other moderators privately, and we will return with a more concrete guideline. We value your opinions so please keep contributing to this thread in the meantime. namja Moderator, DVD Talk Forums |
Namja,
I just wanted to make sure you got my email. I sent it before this thread was created, I didn't want to keep discussing it in the HD forum. |
Originally Posted by Suprmallet
Namja,
I just wanted to make sure you got my email. I sent it before this thread was created, I didn't want to keep discussing it in the HD forum. |
that blitz dude got me banned for 3 days at AVS' high def forums which then in turn ticked me off and a mod there decided I was public enemy #1 and just banned me for 30 days simply because I actually asked him to do his job modding everyone and not just me.
I have no idea how it works here but I would just like to say that mods should be NEUTRAL when it comes to posts. If person A says something "against forum rules" as does person B then delete both posts not just that of person A. This is the crap I got at AVS simply because the mod there is a *$%^$@ and couldn't accept I didn't like his obvious bias against me and called him on it. He then went out of his way to delete almost every post I made even if it didnt come close to breaking rules. I would send him reports of posts that clearly broke the rules HE GAVE for that forum yet he wouldn't do anything about them. Furstrating to have a mod egg you on since they are supposed to be the classy people at a forum and imply everyone "should take the high road on every post" when in reality they act like 12 yr olds because someone doesn't kiss their ass. Love that hypocrisy. Nothing worse than when mods can't take some criticsm and go on power trips and vendettas and think they are God. Sorry for my rant. Anyway, based on my limited time here I think the HD section doesn't seem bad but if you guys feel it is and change it then that's cool. Hopefully you mdos and I can be cool with each other and you guys wont make it your job to kick me off the forum for no reason. :) |
rlindo,
the boards here are NOTHING compared to AVS. It's just a mess over there. I think you'll find DVDtalk is much more organized and open-minded. We may not have some of the "insiders" that AVS has but the people here sure are a helluva lot nicer. welcome. |
And now the free-for-all, or "polite-discussion-a-thon," thread at HD Talk is closed.
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Originally Posted by Jay G.
And now the free-for-all, or "polite-discussion-a-thon," thread at HD Talk is closed.
and we were doing so well, too. :( |
Originally Posted by Adam Tyner
Okay, maybe this entire thread is a bad idea.
Thanks, Spiky. |
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
In this case, not taking care of ONE member was the mistake.
Thanks, Spiky. |
Originally Posted by Jay G.
That you're so quick to lay the blame on one person is probably indicative of why the thread was closed.
The entire diode situation...at least for the couple of pages or posts...was ridiculous, and the skepticism of some users in that thread is not unwarranted. I've purged as many of those posts as I could quickly find and reopened the thread. I'd prefer to see actual discussion, not bickering over the validity of unverifiable rumors. |
Why don't you just close the whole thread down? It's obvious that there's been a diaper put on the whole forum at this point. If we're not allowed to debate and we're not allowed to post rumors, what the hell CAN we post???
I don't mean to be rude at all. It's just really frustrating. There's no reason that this all can't be debated in a civilized manner and I don't get where all of this is coming from. This isn't the first time something "unverifiable" was posted. Shall we go through all the posts today alone and post things that are speculation? Hell, we have an entire thread right now about a rumored 360 with HD DVD in console. Honestly, I just feel this is getting too ridiculous. |
Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
If we're not allowed to debate and we're not allowed to post rumors, what the hell CAN we post???
You can't post a rumor, claim it's fact, and when anyone questions it, smirk at them or quip that they must be supporting "the other side". |
Originally Posted by Adam Tyner
You can debate. You can post rumors.
You can't post a rumor, claim it's fact, and when anyone questions it, smirk at them or quip that they must be supporting "the other side". So please tell me how I should have phrased the information that I had?? Look, I wasn't meaning to be snide or even sarcastic in my post. If it was taken as such, then I can't help that. I didn't insult anyone and I didn't do anything wrong. I just had a couple of people jumping down my throat and they all just so happen to have a stance towards the BD-side. Should I have not pointed that out? Or are we just not supposed to even talk about people's preferences and pretend we're all clearly cut down the middle? And you can do a search. This is definitely NOT the first time I've mentioned this "rumor" on this board since i found out about it. It's just the first time people went apeshit. |
Keeping in mind I'm not a moderator, and thus have no say in what is or isn't allowed, here's my opinion on what went wrong, and how to create a more healthy dialogue:
Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
Since you deleted everything, I can't even defend myself.
Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
That's what the press is being told. Behind the scenes, the HD DVD camp is apparently doing just fine. ;)
Where do you think all those blue diodes went?
Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
That may be a factor but, again, you don't seem to be reading. Toshiba/MS were the ones that bought up the blue diodes for their own personal use.
When you finally admit you can't corroborate your claim, and someone says that it must then be considered an unsubstantiated rumor, you reply:
Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
Whatever makes you happy. ;)
So please tell me how I should have phrased the information that I had?? Look, I wasn't meaning to be snide or even sarcastic in my post. If it was taken as such, then I can't help that. I just had a couple of people jumping down my throat and they all just so happen to have a stance towards the BD-side. Should I have not pointed that out? And you can do a search. This is definitely NOT the first time I've mentioned this "rumor" on this board since i found out about it. It's just the first time people went apeshit. |
I've already discussed it with a moderator.
And with all due respect, you're the last person I'd take advice from about "healthy dialogue." |
Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
And with all due respect, you're the last person I'd take advice from about "healthy dialogue."
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Originally Posted by Jay G.
Keeping in mind I'm not a moderator, and thus have no say in what is or isn't allowed, here's my opinion on what went wrong, and how to create a more healthy dialogue:
Quote: Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc Since you deleted everything, I can't even defend myself. I still have a few of the quotes: Quote: Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc That's what the press is being told. Behind the scenes, the HD DVD camp is apparently doing just fine. Where do you think all those blue diodes went? Quote: Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc That may be a factor but, again, you don't seem to be reading. Toshiba/MS were the ones that bought up the blue diodes for their own personal use. In both of these you present the idea of Toshiba and Microsoft as confirmed facts. You even insult a responder by suggesting they're having reading difficulties when they don't agree 100% with your claim. When you finally admit you can't corroborate your claim, and someone says that it must then be considered an unsubstantiated rumor, you reply: Quote: Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc Whatever makes you happy. The off-the cuff response was possibly intended to be humorous, but gives the impression that you're dismissing his reasoning as not valid. Quote: So please tell me how I should have phrased the information that I had?? Probably in the context of, "I have heard from sources I cannot divulge...." If something's a widely known fact, then restating it doesn't need citations. However, if presenting new info, it's probably best to provide as much info as possible on where it came from so that others may judge its validity. I typically try to cite as many sources as I can for my posts. Quote: Look, I wasn't meaning to be snide or even sarcastic in my post. If it was taken as such, then I can't help that. Actually, you can. Communication is a two-way street, and language is inexact, doubly so when written down. People occasionally read things into what one writes that was never intended. However, it's not entirely their fault, as words can have different connotations when read different ways. Your responses should attempt to clarify and engage, instead of simply dismiss. Quote: I just had a couple of people jumping down my throat and they all just so happen to have a stance towards the BD-side. Should I have not pointed that out? Probably not, no. You should be able to justify a claim or opinion regardless of where the challenge came from. Pointing out that the challenge came from someone with a different viewpoint than yours doesn't make the challenge less valid. And it certainly doesn't help to categorize everyone who challenges a point you make as being on "the other team." It comes off as partisanship. Quote: And you can do a search. This is definitely NOT the first time I've mentioned this "rumor" on this board since i found out about it. It's just the first time people went apeshit. I did a search, and couldn't find you mentioning Microsoft stockpiling blue laser diodes in any other thread. |
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