I agree with Don. I mean, I don't think "rent it" should mean mediocre. I recently reviewed a DVD of a film that I really enjoyed: Line King. But when it came down to it, as good as the movie was I didn't think it was worth the relatively high retail price and think that that film would really function best as a rental. Not a knock on the DVD at all, just calling it like I see it.

...which is why I said "overpriced" in my description as well... 'Sides, I didn't say that the movie had to be mediocre. I meant the DVD as a whole, taking price into account as well. "Mediocre" doesn't mean "bad", just "unremarkable".

Gotcha.

It's not like whatever DVDTalk gives a movie ought to determine what you do anyhow...

Now that das is President do we have to take his suggestion and use it?

Why do you think I ran for office ...

das

I do think it would be cool to have a rating (Collectors series or whatever) that meant 3 (or 4 or however many) of the DVD reviewers all agreed that this was an essential DVD to own (even if that wasn't "your kind" of movie).

It's not absolutely necessary, obviously, since I can read about movies I haven't seen, view different reviews, etc. to decide what I want to blind-buy, but having a category that required multiple reviewers rating it essential, it would presumably make a pretty small list, and give me another thing to compulsively collect (that's a good thing, really). I don't just go by a DVD-Talk reviewers opinion to select my movies, but by having the Collectors Series an exclusive club with very members, that might just make it worthy of the name.

Ok, I give in. We should do it. But only under one condition: If a DVD gets the consensus rating then EVERY member of DVD Talk MUST buy it or else be forever banned from the site!

[Lloyd] So you're telling me there's a chance! [/Lloyd]

das

I think there should be a poll of some sort for each title saying what the readers think about the particular dvd. For example, if say Gladiator was reviewed and the reviewer gave it a dvd talk collector's series rating, then it should have a percentage right next to it showing how many people felt the same way or they could vote it as highly recommended instead. I think that would work out pretty well.

hey am i the only one who truley aggreed with your "dvd talk collector's series" for daredevil. since i know many people claim to hate that movie with a passion.

Ok, slow day at work here, but this has been bothering me for a long time actually.

Just deleted a long rant about how I feel too many niche titles get the highly recommended rating. I'll try to shorten it here.

Maybe I'm not understanding the basics of why which ratings are given.

Are they given assuming that you already like/want the movie, and the skip it/rent it/etc rating is just on the basis of the DVD features and quality?

Reading reviews, this is obviously not the case.

Some movies get rent it ratings even though the DVD is spectacular, but it was a crappy movie.

Some movies/tv shows get that highly recommended rating even though the dvd has no special features at all, or even poor audio/video. The reviewer just really loves the show.

It seems like there should be a better system. Or at least caveats given in the ratings.

Am I making any sense?

You are, and I agree, but as things stand now, ratings are determined solely by each individual reviewer on whichever criteria they feel is worth measuring. Consistency is apparently not DVDTalk Review's agenda, but at least by reading the reviews carefully, one can get a clear idea of whether the film itself is the primary criteria or the DVD of the film (audio/video quality, bonus features, etc.) is.

True, at least the reviews are generally well written. I use this site as my first source for reviews.

But, for example, this week two releases got the highly recommended rating. One is a wrestling set and the other is a (failed) sitcom with no special features at all on the dvds.

Highly recommended should be reserved for dvds worthy of consideration by all dvd fans, not niche markets. But maybe that is what the collector's series designation is for?

Anyway, I'd prefer something geared more to a generalist.

I can not speak for other reviewers (and i am not willing to either as I think that it is not fare to generalize) but I both agree and disagree with you Trevor. Here's why:

Agree: Yes, it is complicated to apply one system (rating) to so many releases and expect it to work perfectly!

Disagree: A couple of things here.

1.What you consider a "niche" title is probably not such in the eyes of someone else (be it a reviewer or reader). Very recent example: Jancso’s name may be "niche" for many but for me (and perhaps a few others) the Hungarian director is in the same league with Bergman.

2.Yes, I am probably "guilty" of recommending more than a few films (again the Jancso's set comes to mind) that were probably not as solid in terms of technical presentation as say the recent King Kong disc. But I ALWAYS make it clear in the "final words" why the disc gets such and such rating and I ALWAYS make a point to let readers know if a better overseas version is in existence and I am aware of it.

3. It is naive to believe that one system, especially with so many reviewers as the TALK team has, can cover all aspects of the quality presentation readers are concerned with. Each reviewer here has a bias and a background that likely let him/she evaluate a certain disc rather differently than what you and I might see in it.

4.Finally, as you point out, it comes down to how the review is written and how the reviewer grades the technical presentation. If the coverage is in-depth and revealing of the disc's true pros and cons then by all means the reader should be able to make her/his mind and determine whether or not a certain DVD is worth the extra attention.

Remember we are all fans here!!




Ciao,
Pro-B

Great reply, thanks Pro-B.

I agree that there is no real "perfect" system. With DVD releases being so incredibly varied, one person's mainstream is another's unknown.

Looking at the review database more carefully, I should have written my original post complaining about the quantity of suspect "dvd talk collector series" titles instead of the next level down.

The highest possible rating should not be given out as freely as it has been. Maybe only give it out if multiple reviewers agree or some other universal standard?

Yeah, I know taste is relative and one person's classic is another's trash, but seriously, Amazing Race season 7 on par with the best DVD has to offer?

I can look at lists like IMDBs top 200 or Oscar winners and be fairly certain that the titles in there, while maybe not of my favorite genre, are quality films worth checking out. We can't do that with our rating system.

I agree. If the rating is given out too casually, it ceases to have any meaning. I mean, there was one week in December where nine titles got the highest possible nod, and it's not unusual for 15-20 titles a month to snag it. I'd prefer for the rating to be reserved for a handful of truly exceptional titles.

There was a similar discussion in the Feedback forum a while back. If you want, I can merge this two threads together.

Reading that thread now....so far I love the idea of a forum members vote generating an IMDB-like top 100 list, and the fact that you only gave 2 out of 343 a Collector's Series nod. I agree with Bug's Life and Superman, but would give the highest rating only to the upgrades of both, knocking the more "bare" editions down a notch.

Merging would be great, but please change the title to das' original, or at least change my "highly recommended" to "dvd talk collector series". Thanks!

...although that was a couple of years ago, and I've given the HD DVD of The Searchers that rating since. I'm still extremely stingy with it, though.

Adam, any chance we can keep this in the Reviews forum for awhile at least? No one really comes to this forum.

Search shows you at 1 collector series out of 483 (HD is separate and Superman is mia).

Good ratio, but maybe you just got all the crap DVDs to review. Scanning your list of reviews confirms this

I wouldn't expect all DVDTalk reviewers to have this low a percentage, some review more classic films, etc, but I do wish it was less than 1% as opposed to the 3% it is now.

The DVD Talk Collectors Series rating is left up to the discretion of each reviewer. My definition is: A film that is absolutely worth every penny you'd pay for it, even if you bought it at full price.

The Rent it rating doesn't mean that a DVD is bad, just that it isn't worth spending to buy it. A low repeat reviewing rating can knock a Recommended down to a Rent it.

Ultimately, I'd say if there's a title you're interested in... Read the review. Regardless of the ultimate rating, our reviewers do a good job of saying what they liked and didn't like about a DVD, and so that's going to be the best guide for you in your DVD buying decisions.

I'm not a reviewer, but what I think might be a good idea is a "response" area for <em>only</em> the DVDTalk Reviewers on each review's page.

For example, X DVD has one primary reviewer. Then below the full review, other reviewers have the opportunity to give their rating and explain where the discrepancy lies between the primary and the response.

The secret here would to make this <em>not</em> an option for regular visitors and only for the official reviewers.

If the DVD should get a second full-length review, it should be linked to directly from the original review, but not necessarily be given a secondary placement to the original, if that makes sense.

In order to assemble a "Top 100 type list", the ratings could be done numerically with the average determining the ranking and an automatic assignment of a DVDTalk ranking title.

Of course, this is not such a good idea for one primary reason which has already been discussed on here: niche DVDs will only be watched by those reviewers with any sort of attraction to the title and thus are already biased to be ranked higher.

But that could be solved by making the top 100 only be based on a disc and/or set that has been rated by 3 or more reviewers. Again, I stress the word "reviewers", as I feel only reviewers should be able to rate a set. Alternatively, do a "Rotten Tomatoes" type ranking where there is a "official reviewer" ranking and a public ranking. Either way, the ranking should at least be expressed for only the reviewers in some way.

And Geoff, I disagree with one particular statement in your above post:

They are ranking DVDs, not films, most of the time. I mean, <em>films/programs</em> are absolutely the most crucial part of a DVD, but there may be more to a DVD's ranking than simply the primary content. (In other words, I disagree with your choice of words: "A <em>film</em> that...")

Of course, if they are reviewing theatrical releases, then your definition sticks. Although, if you're "collecting" a theatrical release (from "DVDTalk Collector's Series"), then you're doing something illegal!

-ringding-

This thread gets the



award.

<b>DVD Talk Collectors' Series: An essential purchase. You have a gaping hole in your DVD collection if you don't own this title.</b>

Didn't one of the Golden Girls sets initially receive this honor? I think it ended up being changed after everyone made fun of the verdict. A system like das is presenting would be pretty good.

= J