Couldn't agree more, but I've said this before. The VG Forum is a wonderful resource, but it can also be a horrendous resource.

The key problem with the VG forum compared to Otter is that grudges continue in the VG forum. In the Otter it seems that even though you may not like a person's ideas, you respect their opinion. In VG the respectfulness of an opinion is thrown right out the door depending on grudges certain members have for other members.

I talked about this a while ago when some regular basher was asking why they get such unfair treatment on VG. I talked about that VG is a very reputation-based board. You do something bad in the past, the general populace of VG seems to remember. Some examples:

Person A owns a GameCube, but goes into X-Box/PS2-centric discussions and talks about that they would not buy the X-Box/PS2 exclusive games or that they hate Microsoft/Sony. Popular opinion would be that Person A should not be in these discussions as there is no chance they would buy said game given they only own a GameCube and do not plan on buying the other 2.

Person B owns an X-Box and thinks the GameCube looks like a woman's purse. They love to rip on the GC games any chance they get since they are OBVIOUSLY inferior to any X-Box game. Popular opinion would be that Person B should not be in discussions outside of the X-Box.

The key in both cases is that the persons could contribute to the conversation if they didn't bring in their own biases that EVERYONE on the board already knows they have. In some ways they beat a dead horse by their statements...saying the same thing over and over again.

The best thing to do would be to split the VG Forum, but that will never happen. Truth is even over at the IGN boards (which are split) lots of people like to jump to other boards and say how much the console they don't own sucks.

In many ways, console discussion is like religion...you have a small number of people that are die-hard fans of a certain system and cannot look beyond it and see that there are good things on the other systems as well.

Ah well, I've said enough. I am a multi-console (own all 3 and a GBA) owner too...I was not too hip on the X-Box when it first came out, but there were enough previews of good games for me to purchase it. Now if they would just come out...heh.

AgtFox, you are probably right about grudges. The few times I have ventured in to the VG forum (which has only been to find out why someone was supended), it seems like it is a smaller group of people and everyone remembers everyone else. That is definitely not the case with Other; I may remember a lot of the names, and some details about many people, there are really only a very small handful who I could ever have a reason to hold a grudge against. And, even then, they post rarely enough in a manner that bugs me, plus they don't direct their stupidity and troll-ness at me. In VG, it does seem like people really attempt to troll each other, while in Other people just troll because they are ****tards.

One thing I see a lot of in the Video Game Forum is baiting. Statements that, when taken on their own, are within the rules. If you reported them to a moderator, nothing would be done because it's not console-bashing per se.

However, if you look at the pattern set by that poster the baiting is obvious. What happens is that long-time readers of the forum see the baiting right away and sometimes bite...then THEY look like the bad guy for overreacting to a seemingly innocuous post.

I call it the "Cape Fear" approach. Anybody whose seen either version of the film knows what I'm talking about.

I know thats what cost me a week suspension. I also know I should have shown restraint but still...

This is the both biggest problem and the forums greatest strength. The videogame forum influences my purchases far more than the main forum. One game costs as much as 4 or 5 DVDs. Reviews are great but nothing beats the opinion of somebody that you know shares your tastes in games. The other side of that is when one or two posters keep harping on the same issue to the extent of posting off topic comments in other threads everbody remembers.

Sometimes people do not like people. It happens especially when they do not like what you say.

I have very specific opinions myself that I am sure do not sit well with some members of the forum.

Personally i think that what makes it harder is that people really want the console they like the most to win. so maybe they assume that if they can influence a few sales it will happen.

the funny thing is that all three consoles will survive this round anyway. maybe some will get a few more ports but all will get games.

Can't we all just get along

I have had disagreements with some however like in Other I really find that most people deep down are good people who just have different life views and likes than I do.

Although I may disagree , I do not dislike them. In fact I hope we actually get around to meeting each other next year at E3. maybe if we met some of those disagreements would shrink.

or maybe not

We've also been trying to crack down on baiting, because we recognize that it's usually a prelude to hostilities or a thinly veiled attack. We usually see the pattern, too. If you see stuff like that going on, go ahead and report, and we'll keep an eye on the person and probably ask him to stop stirring the pot.

People actually root for consoles? I don't think since I was 9 have I ever done that. Now I own all three, and don't care who's "winning." Just get my games out so I can put myself in crippling debt.

just spend some time looking at the video game forum and you will see that.

Some do not like a console for whatever reason.

Others get upset if you say anything that could be viewed as negative about their console.

Even some of the we own all three crowd have their favorite and it shows.

Nothing really wrong about it. we all like to justify the decisions we make myself included

I think the predictions threads are the funniest

The rules are there because the forum couldn't function without them.

Take a look at the board at IGN or Gamespot or Gamers.com to see how bad they can get.

Last fall this board was beginning to drop down to that level, so the rule was put in place, and has at least somewhat alleviated the problem.

Another issue, that was brought up above, is that there is a vastly smaller number of people doing most of the posting in VG Talk so these people know each other better and hold grudges.

The rules, in theory, keep people with biases against certain consoles from posting inflammatory comment, and thus keeps them from provoking the members that hold grudges against them.

No way, you set the bait, which I foolishly jumped on, and then we both foolishly continued the argument, and both of us got 1 week suspensions that neither of us deserved IMO.

No, you called me stupid and I said to get your panties out of a bunch. THATS why I was suspended. You misinterpreted the post that you called me stupid for.

Specifically, you stated that you would give up gaming if there was only one all-in-one set top box. I said anyone that would do that isnt much of a fan of gaming. In no way did I mean this as an insult to you or to imply you were a liar. My only point was that the vast majority would end up buying it. It wasnt even a critizism of your opinion it was just stating that you would be in the extreme minority. You responded by saying I was wrong and stupid.

That's where the disagreement is. You can't post something critizing an opinion/viewpoint, when only one person has presented that viewpoint and not expect them to take it personally.

Plus attacking opinions is now against forum rules, though it wasn't then.

At any rate, it's pointless to beat a dead horse, and I shouldn't have replied in the first place. I just hoped you had realized that your original post was offensive, but I guess not.

That's not what you said.

I said that if Nintendo leaves the console industry, I'll consider leaving gaming because I don't have any interest in buying an expensive set top box.

And you said anyone that would leave gaming because of a company leaving the business is "a brand loyalist consumer."

Anybody who posts an opinion that isnt yours is attacking you? Because thats all I did*. I specifically stated that ANYONE who reacted that way would be in the minority.


*Before I made the panty comment anyway.

You said that anyone who would do that wasn't a gamer but a brand loyal consumer.

So that's the same as saying I'm a brand loyal consumer because I hold that opinion, and I found that offensive.

Now the mere act of being labeled is offensive?

But how is that actually a personal attack? We disagree. Period. You own a PS2 and a Gamecube but you wouldnt pay less for the same machine that would do both. I think thats overly concerned with who makes what as opposed to the games. So what? That makes you brand loyal in my eyes. Is that an attack? I only smoke Marlboro lights. If somebody tells me they think the cheapo brand is the same thing I dont get offended. And I certainly dont claim Im the victim of an unjust attack. I realize not everybody is going to agree with me.

I never really said it was a personal attack. I just said I found it offensive. I'm very anti-consumerism, don't give a crap about brand names, and I didn't like the comment.

I just have no interest in a set top box. If they throw in Tivo and all that worthless garbage, it will likely cost more than the PS2 and GC combined. Plus it likely won't do the same thing from a gaming standpoint. If nintendo went third party (which was the issue in that thread) they'd likely be making games for both MS and Sony, with some exclusives on each. So I'd have to buy 2 expensive set-top boxes to play all of Nintendo's games.

It was purely a financial statement on my part, and didn't have jack to do with brand name, and I didn't appreciate the consumerist comment as it was baseless IMO.

For anyone wondering what the hell this is about here are the first two posts that started this.


Maybe I over-reacted with this, but I think it's obvious that I could feel that it was directed at me as it was a couple posts after mine and no one else in the thread had mentioned anything about quitting gaming and I was offended simply because of my anti-consumerist stance and the baseless (IMO) nature of the comment.

Exactly my point. ANYONE who would quit gaming for that is in the extreme minority. In the context of the thread (the probability of seeing all the consoles replaced by set top boxes) whether its baseless in your case or not doesnt make it any less a factor. Gamers will keep buying. The few who dont wont affect the success of a Sony or MS branded box.

True. I'd of had no problem if you said I'd be in the extreme minority. That's a simple fact.

However, there was no reason for the baseless "brand loyal consumer" comment. That was what pissed me off.

It was baseless, because I clearly stated that I hoped either nintendo stayed in the business or MS or Sony put out a cheaper non set-top box alternative.

Again, my post was cleary of financial concern and had nothing to do with brand loyalty.

If you want to believe I had bad intent so be it. I surrender.

I don't think you had bad intent. You just misread my post, and replied in a way that offended me, and continued throughout the thread (and this one) to not see your mistake.

How can you say I'm a "brand loyalist consumer" when the following was part of my original post?

That cleary indicates that my reason was not wanting to buy a set-top box and had absolutely nothing to do with brand loyalism.

I don't think anyone reading this would agree that you're brand loyalist consumer remark had any relevance to my original post.

There's more petty bickering going on in here than my in-laws house at Thanksgiving.